Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2022-23 season thread part III

[BostonDevil]

Do we stink again?

No. We’re just not an .800+ winning percentage team. Not sure who would have expected that to keep going.

Not that the losses aren’t frustrating, I think the fact that they came in a row that has everyone freaking out.

Thursday will tell a lot.

 

[guitarguyvic]

The team has built such a big lead in the standings that a couple losses aren't the end of the world. But this is an interesting point in this season. The truth is they have been pretty meh for a couple weeks now. But they have been pushing at the right times, getting big saves at the right times, getting big goals at the right times. That has dried up over the last 3 games. It will be interesting to see how they react. They seem to be starting on the path of pushing for the perfect play instead of just getting pucks on net, and losing their cool a bit taking unnecessary risks. This is where the coach needs to do some coaching. And playing 3 lines instead of 4 isn't coaching....

This is what I was alluding to in another post. You can see as a young team that their poise is shaky.

Forget about their average play over the last couple of weeks or the recent losses. I think if there's something to worried about, it's having a head coach who does things that 99% of average fans would recognize as being a bad f***ing idea. I don't trust this guy to make good decisions and adjustments that will maximize the success of a team full of puppies as the competition gets more difficult due to scheduling, other teams adjusting, injuries, quality of competition, or whatever other adversities inevitably crop up.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Need a finisher.

Will help Jack. Will help the PP.

I know everyone hates Kane and Tarasenko and we need all the prospects and draft picks until the end of time.

Despite the horror of giving up a late goal in the 2nd period, they managed 1 flukey goal past Wedgewood.

I'm not fully understanding the concern about the offense just because they had one sleepy game last night. They are a top team in the league for scoring, and have notched 3+ goals in all but two games over the last 20+.

I think acquiring a finisher has to be looked at as part of the next step to making this team a juggernaut that has a good chance of winning a Cup. But the success of this season is not at all hinging on that, IMO. And as such I don't think it makes sense to try to get that player as a rental as would be the case with a Kane or Tarasenko.

 

[JrFischer54]

Devils have assets to make significant deadline splash for playoff push

If the hierarchy wants to strike, if the first two months have not represented a mirage, the Devils surely have the assets to make a splash.

nypost.com

The team definitely has holes. Have they played above their abilities I think they have. If they wanted to add a piece at the deadline then go for it. Even if it’s a “rental” there’s nothing stopping them from resigning that player in the summer.

 

[BostonDevil]

I'm not fully understanding the concern about the offense just because they had one sleepy game last night. They are a top team in the league for scoring, and have notched 3+ goals in all but two games over the last 20+.

I think acquiring a finisher has to be looked at as part of the next step to making this team a juggernaut that has a good chance of winning a Cup. But the success of this season is not at all hinging on that, IMO.

Think the scoring has dried up. Excluding Nico and Jack.

Bratt cooled from his 300 point pace
Rango is missing
Haula may ramp up to what? 10 goal season?
Holtz ain’t ready
Mercer/Tatar are really secondary guys.

You’re right on the finisher as the next step. This is a team at the top of the league and should be there for the next 5+ years. This is when you take the step.

The GM has already told us that they need another scorer by trying to get Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

Don’t be scared. Take risks to win it all.

 

[guitarguyvic]

The team definitely has holes. Have they played above their abilities I think they have. If they wanted to add a piece at the deadline then go for it. Even if it’s a “rental” there’s nothing stopping them from resigning that player in the summer.'

Legit #1 Norris caliber D-man: Nemec is hopefully that guy. Hamilton is the placeholder in the meantime. This isn't a position that you can just trade for without completely dismantling your existing team in return.

Legit sniper: you can possibly acquire one as a rental, but would that move the needle enough this year to be worth whatever the cost would be? Guess it depends on the price.

At least one (maybe two) bigger versatile physical players who can slot into the top 6 if necessary to help the team win if/when our speed game gets neutralized (and also for the playoffs): this can possibly be addressed via trades both at the deadline and otherwise, but again depends on the price. Do we have anyone in the system that's not already on the big club that can fill the role?

Goaltending: jury is still out on if what we have is sufficient. I think with the right team play in front of them, average goalies may be good enough (see the 2022 Stanley Cup champions).

 

[glenwo2]

And now for something COMPLETELY NEEDED here :

 

[JrFischer54]

I disagree a bit. expanding the playoffs isn’t just about adding more teams to the playoffs, but increasing incentives for finishing higher in the standings. The stretch of the regular season is rather boring overall because it is either in or at and everyone starts the playoffs at the same place. No one really cares where they finish in the standings as long as there in. Expanded playoffs adds a pressure point as teams will want to secure a bye. Suddenly finishing top three in division matters more. Also, it protects the top seeds a bit more because of playing the 15th or 16th team in season they could easily end up drawing #20 with an upset. So now finishing first matters more.

Of course more teams in the race means more meaningful games and probably less incentives for tanking. 20 out of 30 teams is basically the same percentage of teams that made it in the mid-90’s post Florida/Anaheim expansion.

Hockey is the most likely sport to have upsets in the playoffs. You add a 17th 18th best team to the mix and give a top team a bye that’s just a recipe for trouble. You can realistically have a final in hockey or two bubble teams that will be tremendous for ratings lol.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Think the scoring has dried up. Excluding Nico and Jack.

Bratt cooled from his 300 point pace
Rango is missing
Haula may ramp up to what? 10 goal season?
Holtz ain’t ready
Mercer/Tatar are really secondary guys.

You’re right on the finisher as the next step. This is a team at the top of the league and should be there for the next 5+ years. This is when you take the step.

The GM has already told us that they need another scorer by trying to get Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

Don’t be scared. Take risks to win it all.

If I'm Fitz, I'm actively looking to see what I can get in return for packages that include Severson, Holtz, Boqvist, and Blackwood.

 

[glenwo2]

If I'm Fitz, I'm actively looking to see what I can get in return for packages that include Severson, Holtz, Boqvist, and Blackwood.

A First-rounder would almost have to be included, though.

Even all those in one package won't be enough to entice teams to bite.

 

[JrFischer54]

Legit #1 Norris caliber D-man: Nemec is hopefully that guy. Hamilton is the placeholder in the meantime. This isn't a position that you can just trade for without completely dismantling your existing team in return.

Legit sniper: you can possibly acquire one as a rental, but would that move the needle enough this year to be worth whatever the cost would be? Guess it depends on the price.

At least one (maybe two) bigger versatile physical players who can slot into the top 6 if necessary to help the team win if/when our speed game gets neutralized (and also for the playoffs): this can possibly be addressed via trades both at the deadline and otherwise, but again depends on the price. Do we have anyone in the system that's not already on the big club that can fill the role?

Goaltending: jury is still out on if what we have is sufficient. I think with the right team play in front of them, average goalies may be good enough (see the 2022 Stanley Cup champions).

Team needs a legit scoring threat imo something that will spark the power play when the team needs that goal to either tie the game or to put a team away when given the chance. The team does have a window to achieve success with jack and Nico on team friendly relatively cheap contracts. I have no problem moving the first this year and holtz if it means they can bring in a legit scoring threat. People get shy around the word rental it’s a risk you have to take. Like I said before if they do bring in a rental at the deadline there is no reason why we have to assume they would leave in the summer. Or look for a massive pay day to resign.

 

[guitarguyvic]

A First-rounder would almost have to be included, though.

Even all those in one package won't be enough to entice teams to bite.

Oh I know more would have to be added, I'm just saying those are the players we can most afford to lose. Severson is probably the only one that might be overvalued by another team.

 

[devilsblood]

A First-rounder would almost have to be included, though.

Even all those in one package won't be enough to entice teams to bite.

An unfortunate truth hidden in there is Holtz's value is definitely taking a ding this season.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Team needs a legit scoring threat imo something that will spark the power play when the team needs that goal to either tie the game or to put a team away when given the chance. The team does have a window to achieve success with jack and Nico on team friendly relatively cheap contracts. I have no problem moving the first this year and holtz if it means they can bring in a legit scoring threat. People get shy around the word rental it’s a risk you have to take. Like I said before if they do bring in a rental at the deadline there is no reason why we have to assume they would leave in the summer. Or look for a massive pay day to resign.

I think there's a good reason to be shy (as you put it) about rentals. Most of the time they don't make a significant difference. Look at Colorado. They have been extremely conservative about acquiring rentals, and the ones they did grab last year were to fill middle/bottom six roles, not for significant upgrades like our scenario with a sniper.

If they can get someone this year for cheap then ok. But I'm not sure we are at the point yet where we should be ok with giving up first rounders for one, unless we have a guarantee that said player can be signed long-term.

 

[glenwo2]

An unfortunate truth hidden in there is Holtz's value is definitely taking a ding this season.

yeah I know.

Thing that is most frustrating is that we know he can be better but I don't think he can be better on THIS type of team we have.

I think he'd excel on another team that doesn't rely on speed but more of a methodical approach.

(just send him out west, if possible)

 

[NJDevs26]

Hockey is the most likely sport to have upsets in the playoffs. You add a 17th 18th best team to the mix and give a top team a bye that’s just a recipe for trouble. You can realistically have a final in hockey or two bubble teams that will be tremendous for ratings lol.

I agree more teams in the playoffs is stupid since the NHL playoffs is a two month war already, that said the NHL got a mediocre Montreal team to the finals with a twelve team bubble bracket so it’s not just the small markets that would benefit

 

[BostonDevil]

An unfortunate truth hidden in there is Holtz's value is definitely taking a ding this season.

It’s a chicken/egg thing.

If Holtz was playing well, we wouldn’t be thinking about moving him for someone to do what we thought he would be doing.

 

[JrFischer54]

I'm not fully understanding the concern about the offense just because they had one sleepy game last night. They are a top team in the league for scoring, and have notched 3+ goals in all but two games over the last 20+.

I think acquiring a finisher has to be looked at as part of the next step to making this team a juggernaut that has a good chance of winning a Cup. But the success of this season is not at all hinging on that, IMO. And as such I don't think it makes sense to try to get that player as a rental as would be the case with a Kane or Tarasenko.

This team will probably make the playoffs so why not add a scorer at the deadline? The going rate for either of those guys isn’t going to cost a ton considering they are rentals. So you rather not give this current team a great shot in the playoffs at the cost of a 20 something draft pick and a meh prospect (not holtz)

 

[JrFischer54]

I think there's a good reason to be shy (as you put it) about rentals. Most of the time they don't make a significant difference. Look at Colorado. They have been extremely conservative about acquiring rentals, and the ones they did grab last year were to fill middle/bottom six roles, not for significant upgrades like our scenario with a sniper.

If they can get someone this year for cheap then ok. But I'm not sure we are at the point yet where we should be ok with giving up first rounders for one, unless we have a guarantee that said player can be signed long-term.

The avs didn’t really need to acquire any top talent though because they had a ton of it. It’s the opposite here we have enough 2nd 3rd level guys but not enough top line talent. If the devils had a 38-40 goal scorer on the roster I wouldn’t be looking for them to add one (avs did). I also think the sooner you bring your deadline player in the better chance for success and the team to gel

 

[Better Call Sal]

And now for something COMPLETELY NEEDED here :

Maybe Rango's recent ice time reduction has been Lindy being kind given his likely lack of sleep now being a new dad. I know the feeling, pal. It doesn't get much easier a year later either!

 

[njdevil26]

There's zero reason to panic... but I have some concerns.

Holtz and Boqvist are the weak links on this team. Add to that Johnsson is not an improvement over either of them. Sharangovich was sucked into black hole having to play with them and it wasn't a mistake Yegor was actually noticeable last night since he played with better players.

I am starting to head south on my opinion of Erik Haula.... That's not entirely his fault. If he was still third line center like he was acquired to be, I would have no issues... but he is forced to play on Hughes wing because Jack cannot win a faceoff to save his life. Most times last night he didn't even look like he tried to win the draw. So slot in Haula and we now have a top 6 winger with 1 goal who can't score in a brothel with a Santa Claus sized sack of cash and it's not a good situation.

I like to assume a healthy lineup looks like:

Tatar-Hischier-Bratt
Palat-Hughes-Mercer
Sharangovich-Haula-Zetterlund
Wood-McLeod-Bastian

But I would really like to have some idea when we are getting Palat and Bastian back.

The other issue I have is the second powerplay unit. Why Sharangovich can't get a look is crazy to me. That unit does nothing. Tatar isn't scoring on the PP. Haula is on there which as mentioned above, he's not scoring either.... Should they spread the wealth around a little? Maybe drop Jack or Nico to the second pair?

This dip in play is right on schedule. Bratt has 2 goals in his last 10 games. Nico has gone 5 games without an assist... With those two being on the same line together that's a combined slump.

Tatar has 1 goal and 0 assists in 6 games. So I worry about him regressing back to the disappointment he was last year.



The Devils have zero cap space. I have no idea how they would acquire a top six winger. Our best trade piece right now is Damon Severson and if we're talking about Meier from San Jose, Kane from Chicago, or Horvat from Vancouver... none of those teams have any use for Severson. The first round pick is going to be a late round pick. We all seem willing to give up Holtz for an upgrade but are any of these teams watching Holtz and not willing to part ways with a star player to take a chance on him?

I had said previously the Devils could lose 5 in a row in regulation and there's a good chance they would still be in first place. I definitely don't want that to happen... and a convincing win over the Flyers on Thursday would alleviate most of these concerns... but all of the things I mentioned in addition to first period troubles, early and late period lapses, and recent games blowing leads and losing (Rangers/Nashville) and I am starting to get a little worried about the trends.

 

[guitarguyvic]

The avs didn’t really need to acquire any top talent though because they had a ton of it. It’s the opposite here we have enough 2nd 3rd level guys but not enough top line talent. If the devils had a 38-40 goal scorer on the roster I wouldn’t be looking for them to add one (avs did). I also think the sooner you bring your deadline player in the better chance for success and the team to gel

Um, we have two guys on pace for that many.

This team will probably make the playoffs so why not add a scorer at the deadline? The going rate for either of those guys isn’t going to cost a ton considering they are rentals. So you rather not give this current team a great shot in the playoffs at the cost of a 20 something draft pick and a meh prospect (not holtz)

This isn't the calculus at play. The question is...is the acquired player improving your team in the short term more than the assets given up might improve your team in the long term?

I'm skeptical that a rental acquisition would be a net positive. For example, if we acquired Tarasenko at the cost of Holtz and a first...is the increased odds of us winning the Cup with him added to the current roster actually higher than the odds of either Holtz or that first turning into a player that will help us be a contender for years to come? I'm not so sure that's a bet I'd make.

If the Blues wanted to take Severson and a 2nd (lol)...OK then I wouldn't think twice about it. But the likelihood of that happening is close to zero, so...

 

[Triumph]

Tarasenko would not cost a first and Holtz. The league being capped out is going to affect the prices of any rentals, and the Devils are on that list - they likely have to clear out Johnsson to add stuff.

 

[njdevil26]

Tarasenko would not cost a first and Holtz. The league being capped out is going to affect the prices of any rentals, and the Devils are on that list - they likely have to clear out Johnsson to add stuff.

Yeah I was just listening to the Dreger/Ray Ferraro pod and they were talking about how every GM is complaining about how hard it is to make any trades at all because everyone is capped out.

The only reason I didn't include Tarasenko is because I wasn't sure he fits the system with speed... but hey, if Jack or Nico can feed him in good areas, I'm all for it... and you are right it'll definitely be somewhat cheaper compared to the others I mentioned.

 

[Mirka the Turka]

Why not go for Patty Kane for a 1st? Would complement Hughes quite well