Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[dgibb10]

Its not solid. Mercer and Noesen are not top 6 wingers. Dawson is not even close to cracking 40 points again. Noesen is having a career year with great PP production but at even strength, he is a weak link in the top 6. Carolina had it right by playing him lower in the line up during even strength.

Palat has not been good this year, Cotter is a good 4th liner but that is not enough. Tatar sucks and is not someone that needs to play a single playoff game, Bastian and Lazar have put up no offence.

It's a salary cap league come to terms with reality you can't have everything.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. We bring in some other non star and when he doesn't shoot well for a month or two you'll be bitching about him too, or if we bring in a star you'll be whining and bitching about how his production dropped after he's on PP2 here.


NJD has a top 3 PP
A top 3 PK

and are +15 5v5. (8th)


You could poke holes into every single team in the league if you wanted to.

 

[Lou Bloom]

This is a really weird and somewhat disingenuous point. Noesen has been more than fine, and the other 2 is because NJD is playing Mercer and Meier on the 3rd line, in no small part because of the lack of a 3C rn and so we're overloading that line with 2 of our best wingers to try and make up for it, knowing that Nico is a guy who wins his minutes regardless of linemates.

Tatar is a guy who fits well as a complimentary piece among skilled guys.

NJD is really missing a 3C.

On the wing, Meier+Bratt as top guys, Noesen+Mercer as secondary guys, Palat+Cotter as tertiary guys, and Tatar-Bastian-Lazar as bottom guys is pretty solid.

You could go through the league if you want, you'll find a lot more of those guys hanging in those roles on good teams than you think.

And the teams that don't, almost always have either a lack of top end talent or a big hole on the backend.

Noesen has been very good net front on the PP, but he hasn't done much 5v5 the past couple months.

Mercer hasn't been good all season, him being on the 3rd line has to do with poor play and inability to play with our stars, not because he's making up for a lack of a 3C.

Meier is the only strong player that you mentioned and even then he's underperformed relative to his contract and acquisition price. Still a very good player but he doesn't make up for the lack of quality wings apart from Bratt on the roster.

Tatar is barely NHL caliber anymore.

Completely disagree with your outlook on the wings. Bratt is elite, Meier is a very good top 6 forward but after that the caliber of wingers is not up to snuff. Mercer hasn't been good at all, not even in complimentary role, Noesen is very good as a PP specialist but doesn't bring much 5v5 and nothing on the PK, Palat is middling as a complimentary player and has been bad when it comes to his finishing ability. Cotter fits in well as a 4th line forchecker with some physicality and decent defense but shouldn't be counted on for much more then that. Tatar is showing his age and Bastian hasn't been good since the one year on the BMW line with McLeod and Wood.

The forward depth issue is much deeper than just 3C.

 

[dgibb10]

Meier is the only strong player that you mentioned and even then he's underperformed relative to his contract and acquisition price. Still a very good player but he doesn't make up for the lack of quality wings apart from Bratt on the roster.

Tatar is barely NHL caliber anymore.

Completely disagree with your outlook on the wings. Bratt is elite, Meier is a very good top 6 forward but after that the caliber of wingers is not up to snuff. Mercer hasn't been good at all, not even in complimentary role, Noesen is very good as a PP specialist but doesn't bring much 5v5 and nothing on the PK, Palat is middling as a complimentary player and has been bad when it comes to his finishing ability. Cotter fits in well as a 4th line forchecker with some physicality and decent defense but shouldn't be counted on for much more then that. Tatar is showing his age and Bastian hasn't been good since the one year on the BMW line with McLeod and Wood.

Please take 5 minutes to actually look through other teams forward groups I beg of you.

Anaheim Ducks Line Combinations Start from here and just go down using the dropdown. it won't take long.

Please go through and list me the teams you think have meaningfully better sets of wingers.


I understand that going from a much more run and gun team in years prior compared to this year playing defensively heavy makes the point totals look less impressive but cmon.

We can talk about how Meier isn't finishing or Meier isn't putting up points.

Did you know Meier has the best GA/60 5v5 in the entire NHL among forwards?

 

[dgibb10]

We have outscored our opponents by 30 goals with the big four forwards on the ice.

Trying to figure out how to make their lines better is gonna be VERY high cost (because you're gonna be paying for cost controlled star wingers), and very low reward.

It frankly makes no sense

 

[None Shall Pass]

I also don't see any immediate need to upgrade Palat. Bratt and Hughes are both on pace for 94-95 point seasons. What is a winger that costs a lot assets going to realistically add there? Upgrade Hischier's wings? Sure, maybe. Think we can do better with Palat's $6M cap space gone? Probably. I agree, better offseason move though.

Biggest move we can make for the forward group is to get an actual 3C so we don't have Haula's husk or Dowling there. What good is getting bottom-6 wings if they're lining up on Curtis Lazar's flanks?

 

[Lou Bloom]

Please take 5 minutes to actually look through other teams forward groups I beg of you.

Anaheim Ducks Line Combinations Start from here and just go down using the dropdown. it won't take long.

Please go through and list me the teams you think have meaningfully better sets of wingers.

Jets, Panthers, Lightning, Wild, Leafs, Hurricanes, Capitals, Stars, Flyers. There's also teams that don't have as good of a duo as Bratt and Meier but have superior depth of talent to the Devils that I didn't include like the Canucks, Kings and Kraken.

 

[dgibb10]

Jets, Panthers, Lightning, Wild, Leafs, Hurricanes, Capitals, Stars, Flyers. There's also teams that don't have as good of a duo as Bratt and Meier but have superior depth of talent to the Devils that I didn't include like the Canucks, Kings and Kraken.

If NJD had any of these 5, let alone ALL FIVE of these players currently as forwards you would blow a gasket:


If NJD had McCann, Holmberg, Robertson, Steeves etc in the lineup you would lose your shit.


Really, the flyers? Cmon.

Dallas does have probably the best forward core in the league. It comes at a cost however. (the panthers have also had to fill out their dcore via basement hunting)



The capitals wings look great when all they're shooting 19%


Really? This van team. Really?

You love a bunch of Palat/Mercer/Cotter/Noesen caliber guys when they're wearing a different jersey.

 

[New Jerseys Devil]

wrong thread

 

[Lou Bloom]

If NJD had any of these 5, let alone ALL FIVE of these players currently as forwards you would blow a gasket:
View attachment 983568

If NJD had McCann, Holmberg, Robertson, Steeves etc in the lineup you would lose your shit.


Really, the flyers? Cmon.

Dallas does have probably the best forward core in the league. It comes at a cost however. (the panthers have also had to fill out their dcore via basement hunting)
View attachment 983573


The capitals wings look great when all they're shooting 19%


Really? This van team. Really?
View attachment 983575View attachment 983576


You love a bunch of Palat/Mercer/Cotter/Noesen caliber guys when they're wearing a different jersey.

The Lightning have poor depth but they hae an elite trio of Kuch, Hagel and Guentzel and it's not like the Devils complimentary wingers are playing well to make up the difference in star talent.

Toronto has Marner and Nylander to go along with Knies and Domi + McCann is playing at a similar level toL any winger not named Bratt or Meier on our roster.

the Flyers have Konencny, Michkov, Tippett, Brink, Foerster, Laughton, Hathaway + Pelletier who I think is a solid offensive prospect. They're weak at Center, Defense and Goaltending but they're very deep and talented at wing.

That Dallas defense is missing Heiskanen. Heiskanen, Harley and Lindell is a very good core on defense, + they have Bischel as a rookie. Not to mention if they didn't miss on trading their first round pick on Lundkvist and got a solid defender instead they would be in a great position on defense.

Florida is spending $15M at goaltending, that's the bigger reason for their defense being weak.

The Capitals have a great winger group, Ovechkin, Protas, Wilson, McMichael and Mangipane is a strong group of wingers.

You love a bunch of Palat/Mercer/Cotter/Noesen caliber guys when they're wearing a different jersey.

You claiming they're all the same caliber of players doesn't make it true. Noesen has been very good as a PP specialist and Cotter would fit great on a 4th line but apart from that these guys have performed worse then many forward groups around the league.

 

[dgibb10]

The Lightning have poor depth but they hae an elite trio of Kuch, Hagel and Guentzel and it's not like the Devils complimentary wingers are playing well to make up the difference in star talent.

Toronto has Marner and Nylander to go along with Knies and Domi + McCann is playing at a similar level toL any winger not named Bratt or Meier on our roster.

the Flyers have Konencny, Michkov, Tippett, Brink, Foerster, Laughton, Hathaway + Pelletier who I think is a solid offensive prospect. They're weak at Center, Defense and Goaltending but they're very deep and talented at wing.

That Dallas defense is missing Heiskanen. Heiskanen, Harley and Lindell is a very good core on defense, + they have Bischel as a rookie. Not to mention if they didn't miss on trading their first round pick on Lundkvist and got a solid defender instead they would be in a great position on defense.

Florida is spending $15M at goaltending, that's the bigger reason for their defense being weak.

The Capitals have a great winger group, Ovechkin, Protas, Wilson, McMichael and Mangipane is a strong group of wingers.


You claiming they're all the same caliber of players doesn't make it true. Noesen has been very good as a PP specialist and Cotter would fit great on a 4th line but apart from that these guys have performed worse then many forward groups around the league.

If these players were in NJD you would be complaining about them non stop.

 

[Lou Bloom]

If these players were in NJD you would be complaining about them non stop.

The 2022-2023 team was deep at forward and was controlling play with all 4 lines, I never once complained about that team's lack of forward depth. Claiming this team is fine at winger is pure delusion.

 

[dgibb10]

The 2022-2023 team was deep at forward and was controlling play with all 4 lines, I never once complained about that team's lack of forward depth. Claiming this team is fine at winger is pure delusion.

Just want to clarify.

Bratt Palat Tatar Mercer Wood Bastian Haula Zetterlund. WOW

Bratt Palat Meier Mercer Noesen Cotter Tatar Bastian. BAD

I guess we really missed Miles Wood. (reality, you're upset we're playing more defensively oriented)

 

[Lou Bloom]

Just want to clarify.

Bratt Palat Tatar Mercer Wood Bastian Haula Zetterlund. WOW

Bratt Palat Meier Mercer Noesen Cotter Tatar Bastian. BAD

I guess we really missed Miles Wood. (reality, you're upset we're playing more defensively oriented)

Tatar who was two years younger and a way better player. Bastian was much better and fit in like a glove on the BMW line with McLeod and Wood. Mercer played much better on that team. Sharangovich was a solid third liner that season. Miles Wood was a very good 4th liner.

It's completely disingenuous to act like there isn't a night and day difference between the 2022-2023 team and this team in terms of all around forward play. That 2022-2023 was dominating play with all 4 lines and constantly had the other team in their own zone, while this team struggles to get anything going apart from Hughes, Hishier, Bratt and Meier.

 

[NJDevs26]

And Tatar, Haula and Palat are all two years older and worse. Mercer is also worse, for whatever reason you want to attribute it to. And the forwards overall are more one dimensional without the speed element. Their team stats look above average because of special teams and the occasional outburst like Sunday but that does little good when you can’t score eight out of the other nine games in a ten game stretch

 

[dgibb10]

It's completely disingenuous to act like there isn't a night and day difference between the 2022-2023 team and this team in terms of all around forward play. That 2022-2023 was dominating play with all 4 lines and constantly had the other team in their own zone, while this team struggles to get anything going apart from Hughes, Hishier, Bratt and Meier.

The 24-25 new jersey devils have the best expected goal differential in the league.