Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

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Its not solid. Mercer and Noesen are not top 6 wingers. Dawson is not even close to cracking 40 points again. Noesen is having a career year with great PP production but at even strength, he is a weak link in the top 6. Carolina had it right by playing him lower in the line up during even strength.

Palat has not been good this year, Cotter is a good 4th liner but that is not enough. Tatar sucks and is not someone that needs to play a single playoff game, Bastian and Lazar have put up no offence.
It's a salary cap league come to terms with reality you can't have everything.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. We bring in some other non star and when he doesn't shoot well for a month or two you'll be bitching about him too, or if we bring in a star you'll be whining and bitching about how his production dropped after he's on PP2 here.


NJD has a top 3 PP
A top 3 PK

and are +15 5v5. (8th)


You could poke holes into every single team in the league if you wanted to.
 
This is a really weird and somewhat disingenuous point. Noesen has been more than fine, and the other 2 is because NJD is playing Mercer and Meier on the 3rd line, in no small part because of the lack of a 3C rn and so we're overloading that line with 2 of our best wingers to try and make up for it, knowing that Nico is a guy who wins his minutes regardless of linemates.

Tatar is a guy who fits well as a complimentary piece among skilled guys.

NJD is really missing a 3C.

On the wing, Meier+Bratt as top guys, Noesen+Mercer as secondary guys, Palat+Cotter as tertiary guys, and Tatar-Bastian-Lazar as bottom guys is pretty solid.

You could go through the league if you want, you'll find a lot more of those guys hanging in those roles on good teams than you think.

And the teams that don't, almost always have either a lack of top end talent or a big hole on the backend.
Noesen has been very good net front on the PP, but he hasn't done much 5v5 the past couple months.

Mercer hasn't been good all season, him being on the 3rd line has to do with poor play and inability to play with our stars, not because he's making up for a lack of a 3C.

Meier is the only strong player that you mentioned and even then he's underperformed relative to his contract and acquisition price. Still a very good player but he doesn't make up for the lack of quality wings apart from Bratt on the roster.

Tatar is barely NHL caliber anymore.

Completely disagree with your outlook on the wings. Bratt is elite, Meier is a very good top 6 forward but after that the caliber of wingers is not up to snuff. Mercer hasn't been good at all, not even in complimentary role, Noesen is very good as a PP specialist but doesn't bring much 5v5 and nothing on the PK, Palat is middling as a complimentary player and has been bad when it comes to his finishing ability. Cotter fits in well as a 4th line forchecker with some physicality and decent defense but shouldn't be counted on for much more then that. Tatar is showing his age and Bastian hasn't been good since the one year on the BMW line with McLeod and Wood.

The forward depth issue is much deeper than just 3C.
 
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Meier is the only strong player that you mentioned and even then he's underperformed relative to his contract and acquisition price. Still a very good player but he doesn't make up for the lack of quality wings apart from Bratt on the roster.

Tatar is barely NHL caliber anymore.

Completely disagree with your outlook on the wings. Bratt is elite, Meier is a very good top 6 forward but after that the caliber of wingers is not up to snuff. Mercer hasn't been good at all, not even in complimentary role, Noesen is very good as a PP specialist but doesn't bring much 5v5 and nothing on the PK, Palat is middling as a complimentary player and has been bad when it comes to his finishing ability. Cotter fits in well as a 4th line forchecker with some physicality and decent defense but shouldn't be counted on for much more then that. Tatar is showing his age and Bastian hasn't been good since the one year on the BMW line with McLeod and Wood.
Please take 5 minutes to actually look through other teams forward groups I beg of you.

Anaheim Ducks Line Combinations Start from here and just go down using the dropdown. it won't take long.

Please go through and list me the teams you think have meaningfully better sets of wingers.


I understand that going from a much more run and gun team in years prior compared to this year playing defensively heavy makes the point totals look less impressive but cmon.

We can talk about how Meier isn't finishing or Meier isn't putting up points.

Did you know Meier has the best GA/60 5v5 in the entire NHL among forwards?
 
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We have outscored our opponents by 30 goals with the big four forwards on the ice.

Trying to figure out how to make their lines better is gonna be VERY high cost (because you're gonna be paying for cost controlled star wingers), and very low reward.

It frankly makes no sense
 
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I also don't see any immediate need to upgrade Palat. Bratt and Hughes are both on pace for 94-95 point seasons. What is a winger that costs a lot assets going to realistically add there? Upgrade Hischier's wings? Sure, maybe. Think we can do better with Palat's $6M cap space gone? Probably. I agree, better offseason move though.

Biggest move we can make for the forward group is to get an actual 3C so we don't have Haula's husk or Dowling there. What good is getting bottom-6 wings if they're lining up on Curtis Lazar's flanks?
 
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Please take 5 minutes to actually look through other teams forward groups I beg of you.

Anaheim Ducks Line Combinations Start from here and just go down using the dropdown. it won't take long.

Please go through and list me the teams you think have meaningfully better sets of wingers.
Jets, Panthers, Lightning, Wild, Leafs, Hurricanes, Capitals, Stars, Flyers. There's also teams that don't have as good of a duo as Bratt and Meier but have superior depth of talent to the Devils that I didn't include like the Canucks, Kings and Kraken.
 
Jets, Panthers, Lightning, Wild, Leafs, Hurricanes, Capitals, Stars, Flyers. There's also teams that don't have as good of a duo as Bratt and Meier but have superior depth of talent to the Devils that I didn't include like the Canucks, Kings and Kraken.
If NJD had any of these 5, let alone ALL FIVE of these players currently as forwards you would blow a gasket:
Screenshot 2025-02-26 at 10.20.32 PM.png

If NJD had McCann, Holmberg, Robertson, Steeves etc in the lineup you would lose your shit.


Really, the flyers? Cmon.

Dallas does have probably the best forward core in the league. It comes at a cost however. (the panthers have also had to fill out their dcore via basement hunting)
Screenshot 2025-02-26 at 10.23.27 PM.png


The capitals wings look great when all they're shooting 19%


Really? This van team. Really?
Screenshot 2025-02-26 at 10.26.07 PM.png
Screenshot 2025-02-26 at 10.26.12 PM.png



You love a bunch of Palat/Mercer/Cotter/Noesen caliber guys when they're wearing a different jersey.
 
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If NJD had any of these 5, let alone ALL FIVE of these players currently as forwards you would blow a gasket:
View attachment 983568

If NJD had McCann, Holmberg, Robertson, Steeves etc in the lineup you would lose your shit.


Really, the flyers? Cmon.

Dallas does have probably the best forward core in the league. It comes at a cost however. (the panthers have also had to fill out their dcore via basement hunting)
View attachment 983573


The capitals wings look great when all they're shooting 19%


Really? This van team. Really?
View attachment 983575View attachment 983576


You love a bunch of Palat/Mercer/Cotter/Noesen caliber guys when they're wearing a different jersey.
The Lightning have poor depth but they hae an elite trio of Kuch, Hagel and Guentzel and it's not like the Devils complimentary wingers are playing well to make up the difference in star talent.

Toronto has Marner and Nylander to go along with Knies and Domi + McCann is playing at a similar level toL any winger not named Bratt or Meier on our roster.

the Flyers have Konencny, Michkov, Tippett, Brink, Foerster, Laughton, Hathaway + Pelletier who I think is a solid offensive prospect. They're weak at Center, Defense and Goaltending but they're very deep and talented at wing.

That Dallas defense is missing Heiskanen. Heiskanen, Harley and Lindell is a very good core on defense, + they have Bischel as a rookie. Not to mention if they didn't miss on trading their first round pick on Lundkvist and got a solid defender instead they would be in a great position on defense.

Florida is spending $15M at goaltending, that's the bigger reason for their defense being weak.

The Capitals have a great winger group, Ovechkin, Protas, Wilson, McMichael and Mangipane is a strong group of wingers.

You love a bunch of Palat/Mercer/Cotter/Noesen caliber guys when they're wearing a different jersey.
You claiming they're all the same caliber of players doesn't make it true. Noesen has been very good as a PP specialist and Cotter would fit great on a 4th line but apart from that these guys have performed worse then many forward groups around the league.
 
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The Lightning have poor depth but they hae an elite trio of Kuch, Hagel and Guentzel and it's not like the Devils complimentary wingers are playing well to make up the difference in star talent.

Toronto has Marner and Nylander to go along with Knies and Domi + McCann is playing at a similar level toL any winger not named Bratt or Meier on our roster.

the Flyers have Konencny, Michkov, Tippett, Brink, Foerster, Laughton, Hathaway + Pelletier who I think is a solid offensive prospect. They're weak at Center, Defense and Goaltending but they're very deep and talented at wing.

That Dallas defense is missing Heiskanen. Heiskanen, Harley and Lindell is a very good core on defense, + they have Bischel as a rookie. Not to mention if they didn't miss on trading their first round pick on Lundkvist and got a solid defender instead they would be in a great position on defense.

Florida is spending $15M at goaltending, that's the bigger reason for their defense being weak.

The Capitals have a great winger group, Ovechkin, Protas, Wilson, McMichael and Mangipane is a strong group of wingers.


You claiming they're all the same caliber of players doesn't make it true. Noesen has been very good as a PP specialist and Cotter would fit great on a 4th line but apart from that these guys have performed worse then many forward groups around the league.
If these players were in NJD you would be complaining about them non stop.
 
If these players were in NJD you would be complaining about them non stop.
The 2022-2023 team was deep at forward and was controlling play with all 4 lines, I never once complained about that team's lack of forward depth. Claiming this team is fine at winger is pure delusion.
 
The 2022-2023 team was deep at forward and was controlling play with all 4 lines, I never once complained about that team's lack of forward depth. Claiming this team is fine at winger is pure delusion.
Just want to clarify.

Bratt Palat Tatar Mercer Wood Bastian Haula Zetterlund. WOW

Bratt Palat Meier Mercer Noesen Cotter Tatar Bastian. BAD

I guess we really missed Miles Wood. (reality, you're upset we're playing more defensively oriented)
 
Just want to clarify.

Bratt Palat Tatar Mercer Wood Bastian Haula Zetterlund. WOW

Bratt Palat Meier Mercer Noesen Cotter Tatar Bastian. BAD

I guess we really missed Miles Wood. (reality, you're upset we're playing more defensively oriented)
Tatar who was two years younger and a way better player. Bastian was much better and fit in like a glove on the BMW line with McLeod and Wood. Mercer played much better on that team. Sharangovich was a solid third liner that season. Miles Wood was a very good 4th liner.

It's completely disingenuous to act like there isn't a night and day difference between the 2022-2023 team and this team in terms of all around forward play. That 2022-2023 was dominating play with all 4 lines and constantly had the other team in their own zone, while this team struggles to get anything going apart from Hughes, Hishier, Bratt and Meier.
 
And Tatar, Haula and Palat are all two years older and worse. Mercer is also worse, for whatever reason you want to attribute it to. And the forwards overall are more one dimensional without the speed element. Their team stats look above average because of special teams and the occasional outburst like Sunday but that does little good when you can’t score eight out of the other nine games in a ten game stretch
 
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It's completely disingenuous to act like there isn't a night and day difference between the 2022-2023 team and this team in terms of all around forward play. That 2022-2023 was dominating play with all 4 lines and constantly had the other team in their own zone, while this team struggles to get anything going apart from Hughes, Hishier, Bratt and Meier.
The 24-25 new jersey devils have the best expected goal differential in the league.
 
@ Zajacs Bowl Cut
I don't really want to do this because I don't want to have to spend the next eon defending myself, but I have watched him on a game to game basis whenever he has been here.

I am not sold on just what exactly he wants to be or what NJ expects him to become. He is like some kind of a middling player showing some offensive desire and sometimes actually trying to play defense.

First off, to me he has an attitude that implies he doesn't think he belongs here. Whenever we see him he sulks for the first few games and just goes through the motions, then either coaches, his agent, or NJ puts a bug in his ear that not giving his all will result in him never becoming an NHL player. I admire a guy with confidence in himself, but thinking you are something you are not won't get you where you want to go. You have to prove you don't belong where you are.

He is not a super skater. To my eyes he is not fast and not slow, but somewhere in between. When he is rushing the puck he gets caught from behind. When he's caught deep which is way too often, he doesn't get back with the opponent's rush.

He doesn't have the stick skills or the slick edges that allow him to elude defenders challenging him when he is carrying the puck into the O-zone. Offensively, unless he has a wide open pass, he goes wide down the boards now looking to pass. If it's not there, he either forces it anyways and turns it over or ends up in the corner.

He can't stick handle to keep the puck away from defenders in close quarters or have the kind of edge work and puck handling skills to reverse his position and take the puck back out towards the blueline, or stop on the boards and pass the puck inside, or even turn into the circle and all of a sudden become dangerous. Nope. He either tries to dump it behind the net or loses the puck to aggressive defenders and then they front him as their mates are breaking up ice at which point he doesn't bust his nuts and try to catch up because he isn't fast enough to do such. He "hustles" back and tries to help out like a backchecking forward while someone like Schmelzer or another forward like Parent who have defensive chops try to play Simon's position vs a puck carrier.

In his own end 1 on 1 vs a rushing forward:
1st he never challenges that guy out high he just sags back. Sometimes the gap is so large the guy turns inside and loses him or shoots from the top of the circle because Simon has ceded that shot.

2nd If he keeps coming, Simon tries to force him wide and if the guy is close enough while going by, he tries to swipe the puck off his stick.
His main objective was to force the guy wide and pick him up on the end boards. He won't hit him on the end boards, but rides him and waits for help.

There is a problem with the main objective. Some of these guys are a lot faster than he gives them credit for and they simply lower a shoulder and sweep in behind him intent on going to the net. At that point the guy has new set of options. He can shoot himself, pass to an open mate in the slot if he's been unchecked, or if he's picked up, pass to the guy on the wide post who was abandoned by the guy picking up the unchecked slot guy, or hit another streaking in off the circle. The Comets always leave 1 of those guys unchecked. To avoid all that he trips, hooks, grabs, or slashes the guy. Not exactly text boook defense.

He gets away with this plan if the guy isn't able to get past him before Simon takes away his lanes and the guy goes to the end boards like he hoped.

He is not a physical D-man. He never steps up into a puck carrier. He does not angle a player to the boards and then rub him out. He doesn't affront a guy at the netfront. He pushes at him, fronts him, or tries to use his stick to disrupt the puck coming to the guy. Proof of what he is not doing to the guy in front is that very seldom after a whistle does a player take offense to how he has been mistreated by Simon.

He can make a good outlet pass, but is more often trying to carry it out and then pass it in open ice. Not a problem if he chooses the right time to do it. He can elude a player in open ice, but not if the guy gets into him. At that point he tries the pass which might be there or might be to far out of reach and the turnover results. He also might resort to the dump in which is a very common Comets' way of getting the puck into the opponent's end. The team is slow and has poor puck skills so dumping it is a better move than turning it over.

Simon likes to shoot from the point but his prefernce is from the middle anywhere from the blueline to the top of the circles. He tries to score if the opening appears to be there or shoots low at the net or low, but wide in both cases setting up the tip. He will also dish off when skating to the circle because oppopnents have to pick him up, which always occurs in hockey, it opens up a mate. Nothing wrong with any of this.

Forcheckers can pen him in or physically take him out forcing turnovers. He is not good at avoiding or eluding forecheckers.

He can pass the puck tape to tape whether the intended receiver is stationary, moving at at any given speed, or flying into an open spot.

He is a smart player. He can play the game, but he is too prone to trying to do too much on his own.

I think he can be a good NHL D-man, but only if he allows his ego and his seeming unwillingness to play the game his management and coach wants him to play as the others who would be his team mates have already done.

I have no idea if he's already abandoned his desire to be a Devil or if the Devils have decided to pass on him. He has already alluded to a trade as being what might be best for him to his home press. I don't thimk that kind of behavior sits well with the team, the coach, or management.

Hope I have been of some assistance.
 
Going back to two years ago and the center depth:

in 22-23: Yegor, Boqvist and McLeod combined for 77 points in 225 combined games. That's .34 points per game.

This year going into tonight: Haula, Lazar, Dowling have combined for 20 points in 120 combined games. That's .16 points per game.

That is the story of the two seasons in a nutshell. The forward depth has been hallowed out. And that doesn't include Mercer whose production has dropped, because he played a lot that 22-23 season with either Jack or Nico.
 
The 24-25 new jersey devils have the best expected goal differential in the league.
In all situations. They're 7th 5v5 and that's buoyed by their top 6 largely dominating play. The forward depth has been a problem all season even if the star forwards and defensive unit have carried them to good results despite of it.
 

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