Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[britdevil]

Talk of Marino being gone if Pesce is signed but maybe Hamilton still needs to be LTIR'd or maybe they want Nemec to spend more time marinating in the AHL.

Nightmare fuel if Dougie is still out. I don't even want to think about it.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Dougie got injured Thanksgiving weekend IIRC

that will be nearly 10 months from the time of that injury to the season starting. He will be ready.

 

[Triumph]

Talk of Marino being gone if Pesce is signed but maybe Hamilton still needs to be LTIR'd or maybe they want Nemec to spend more time marinating in the AHL.

Former thing is very unlikely - Hamilton said he was close to being ready when the season ended - and latter thing is just impossible unless Nemec shows up to camp out of shape or out of sorts.

Pesce doesn't make any sense to me unless the Devils are looking at moving Marino this year and Hamilton next year. Hamilton back to Carolina in summer 2025 with the Devils picking up $2.25M could make a lot of sense.

 

[Lou Bloom]

If only we could be so well run and future-thinking as the Edmonton Oilers.

We are one year removed from setting franchise records and dismantling our hated rivals in the playoffs. I think we are damn close with this core and don't give a flying f*** about what an 18 year old in 2024 could end up being. f*** me, Nico Hischier will be nearly 30 by the time they are hitting their prime.

For every Evan Bouchard and Mikko Rantanen, there is an opposite huge bust who never becomes anything. We have these level of players, they are currently playing and signed to long contracts (or lots of team control) right now. I'm talking about adding supplementary talent that can move the needle... now.

The team has already traded their 2023 and 2025 1st round picks. They have already made win now moves for Meier, Markstrom, Signing Hamilton, Palat, trading for Marino, Siegenthaler, etc... Why are you making it out like this team is just hoarding picks and prospects?

The Devils should have an aim to be competitive next year, that doesn't mean we should waste a valuable pick. If a player that is worth the pick becomes available then sure, but saying they should trade the pick for any top 4 veteran defenseman is complete mismanagement.

That 18 year old could have an impact as soon as a year from now. We just saw that with Mercer and Bratt who both became NHLers at 19, this idea that we'll have to wait a long time to get any sort of production from the 10th overall pick is not even true.

 

[britdevil]

The team has already traded their 2023 and 2025 1st round picks. They have already made win now moves for Meier, Markstrom, Signing Hamilton, Palat, trading for Marino, Siegenthaler, etc... Why are you making it out like this team is just hoarding picks and prospects?

The Devils should have an aim to be competitive next year, that doesn't mean we should waste a valuable pick. If a player that is worth the pick becomes available then sure, but saying they should trade the pick for any top 4 veteran defenseman is complete mismanagement.

That 18 year old could have an impact as soon as a year from now. We just saw that with Mercer and Bratt who both became NHLers at 19, this idea that we'll have to wait a long time to get any sort of production from the 10th overall pick is not even true.

My brother, we may have traded those picks, but we have made many of them too. Nico, Jack, Alex, Luke, Simon. Mercer and Muk also, albeit later firsts.

I don't understand how trading the pick for proven NHL talent is a waste? I'm not asking to trade it for Erik Gudbranson.

Pretend for a moment that you are Jack Hughes or Nico Hischier. What's going to get your blood up more, your GM trading for someone that can help you now (ie a veteran NHL defenseman or forward) or drafting an 18 year old who may or may not replace you or one of your friends in a few years time?

I am steadfast in my belief that we are past this way of thinking. We need to make moves now. Trade for the Sam Reinharts, Hampus Lindholms or Blake Colemans. They are out there and can be found.

You brought up Edmonton before, so let's use them as an example (lol, perish the thought). They went out and traded for Ekholm just over a year ago. It cost a first+ and look at what he's done for them since.

 

[Mgd31]

If Tom Fitzgerald put Simon Nemec in the minors I would egg his house

Burn his house down like the Vesuvio

 

[Captain3rdLine]

My brother, we may have traded those picks, but we have made many of them too. Nico, Jack, Alex, Luke, Simon. Mercer and Muk also, albeit later firsts.

I don't understand how trading the pick for proven NHL talent is a waste? I'm not asking to trade it for Erik Gudbranson.

Pretend for a moment that you are Jack Hughes or Nico Hischier. What's going to get your blood up more, your GM trading for someone that can help you now (ie a veteran NHL defenseman or forward) or drafting an 18 year old who may or may not replace you or one of your friends in a few years time?

I am steadfast in my belief that we are past this way of thinking. We need to make moves now. Trade for the Sam Reinharts, Hampus Lindholms or Blake Colemans. They are out there and can be found.

Umm Blake Coleman? I don’t know about that

 

[Lou Bloom]

I don't understand how trading the pick for proven NHL talent is a waste? I'm not asking to trade it for Erik Gudbranson.

Because potentially 5+ years of team control for a highly rated prospect/future NHLer is worth a ton of value and you're waving away all that context because "win now".

Pretend for a moment that you are Jack Hughes or Nico Hischier. What's going to get your blood up more, your GM trading for someone that can help you now (ie a veteran NHL defenseman or forward) or drafting an 18 year old who may or may not replace you or one of your friends in a few years time?

What's getting my blood up is making up for a poor season, not what offseason moves the GM makes. It's also completely pointless because there's no reason the Devils can't improve the team without trading the 10th overall pick between UFA and other trade routes.

I am steadfast in my belief that we are past this way of thinking. We need to make moves now. Trade for the Sam Reinharts, Hampus Lindholms or Blake Colemans. They are out there and can be found.

All of those players were traded for much less than 10th overall, which goes to my point that you don't have any understanding about how that pick is valued if you're willing to trade it for any top 4 veteran upgrade at LHD.

 

[britdevil]

Umm Blake Coleman? I don’t know about that

Do you think Tampa regret the loss of 2020 1st and Nolan Foote?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Do you think Tampa regret the loss of 2020 1st and Nolan Foote?

No because neither is a 10th overall pick nor were they remotely in the same situation. Trading a 10th overall pick for a 3rd liner like Blake Coleman would be insanely stupid. Other guys you mention would be worth discussing.

Apart from the value being completely different, trading for Blake Coleman didn’t win them the cup nor does winning the cup guarantee that every move you made along the way was a good one.

 

[britdevil]

Because potentially 5+ years of team control for a highly rated prospect/future NHLer is worth a ton of value and you're waving away all that context because "win now".


What's getting my blood up is making up for a poor season, not what offseason moves the GM makes. It's also completely pointless because there's no reason the Devils can't improve the team without trading the 10th overall pick between UFA and other trade routes.

All of those players were traded for much less than 10th overall, which goes to my point that you don't have any understanding about how that pick is valued if you're willing to trade it for any top 4 veteran upgrade at LHD.

I apologise for the original, poorly worded post then. Of course, not just anyone. I'm not trading it for Ryan Graves....

I'd still trade it 9 times out of 10, for the right player. No doubt.

 

[britdevil]

No because neither is a 10th overall pick nor were they remotely in the same situation. Trading a 10th overall pick for a 3rd liner like Blake Coleman would be insanely stupid. Other guys you mention would be worth discussing.

Apart from the value being completely different, trading for Blake Coleman didn’t win them the cup nor does winning the cup guarantee that every move you made along the way was a good one.

Ok fine, I agree. That would be pretty stupid and unheard of. High firsts aren't traded for 3rd liners, agreed.

Although I would argue that your underselling what Coleman did for them. He definitely moved the needle, no doubt about it.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

A stinky year when you’re healthy signals major changes are needed. A stinky year when you’re decimated by injury? Not so much.

Making no changes just because the season had a lot of injuries is also not a smart idea. The team clearly has needs, despite how the prior season went.

I agree he is a perfect fit but first of all their window is now, they need players not picks, and Buium and Dickinson still more valuable.

I mean, you're contradicting yourself there. Buium and Dickinson are further from contributing than McGroarty. He's ready this upcoming season.

Even if Buium and Dickinson was ready to step into the NHL this upcoming season (they're not), d-men take longer to fully contribute.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I hate that this McGroarty news came out because I'm going to be so disappointed when we inevitably don't land him.

Lmao, it's 2nd time it's been brought up (mainly because of me). I was dreaming of him coming over here at the TDL.
I really want this guy

It’s highly unlikely we get him. Winnipeg isn’t gonna be looking for our 10th this year or a Seamus Casey or 2nd round pick unless it’s last resort in my opinion.

Most of the offers people are suggesting here probably get laughed at.

What do they need? I think they need nhl wingers more than anything, and only one kind of expendable from us right now is Mercer. Maybe Gritsyuk if they want him...but I'd have to think about that one. Hard for me to give up on that guy after waiting so long. I also don't know why they'd want Gritsyuk when McGroarty is ready to contribute now...so yea only Mercer. I don't think they're interested in Holtz

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Making no changes just because the season had a lot of injuries is also not a smart idea. The team clearly has needs, despite how the prior season went.

Of course changes were needed. We have a new coach and goalie before the draft and free agency. The big pieces are mostly in place already though.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Lmao, it's 2nd time it's been brought up (mainly because of me). I was dreaming of him coming over here at the TDL.
I really want this guy



What do they need? I think they need nhl wingers more than anything, and only one kind of expendable from us right now is Mercer. Maybe Gritsyuk if they want him...but I'd have to think about that one. Hard for me to give up on that guy after waiting so long. I also don't know why they'd want Gritsyuk when McGroarty is ready to contribute now...so yea only Mercer.

Ya and we aren’t trading Mercer. Not a trade fit IMO

 

[mdj12784]

Bring Lars home #5

 

[Guttersniped]

I'm not sure why everyone underestimates how different the lineup was this year from 2023.

Half of 2023 Bahl wasn't a starter...this year he was going to be relied upon to provide critical minutes. Last year Luke was in college and Nemec was finishing his 1st North American season at 18 years old...

Severson gone
Graves gone
Tatar gone
Wood gone
Sharangovich gone
Zetterlund gone
Boqvist gone
Blackwood gone
McLeod gone

Add
Luke
Nemec
Miller
Hatakka
DeSimone
Meier
Lazar
Toffoli
Tierney
Nosek
Willman
MacDermid
Allen
Kahkonen


I know you can make the argument that a lot of these players are inconsequential...but the overall quality of depth was significantly better in 2023...I think that lack of depth was reason that we didn't bridge the gap of injuries as well as we should have...

We were deeper, faster, bigger stronger and more experienced with the depth group from 2023 and they were obviously missed

Oh no, line-up turnover in the NHL! How can we possibly survive that? No other team, including the Devils, has possibly experienced such a thing (every season).

The another fun part here is in the off-season before 2022-23 you were convinced that our line-up was incapable of being more productive offensively.

And yet it was.

 

[Guadana]

Making no changes just because the season had a lot of injuries is also not a smart idea. The team clearly has needs, despite how the prior season went.



I mean, you're contradicting yourself there. Buium and Dickinson are further from contributing than McGroarty. He's ready this upcoming season.

Even if Buium and Dickinson was ready to step into the NHL this upcoming season (they're not), d-men take longer to fully contribute.

No. I’m not. Mcgroarty is good. But Buium and Dickinson are better, even if one or two years away from McGroarty. And top 4 defensemen are more valuable. It’s just fact.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Of course changes were needed. We have a new coach and goalie before the draft and free agency. The big pieces are mostly in place already though.

Yea no, they need a much better bottom 6, a better LD (ideally one who can take top pair minutes), and a top 6 winger. Aka...exactly what Fitz said the team needs. It has 0 to do with the injuries.

I can't believe you all still think goalie was the only issue with the roster.

Ya and we aren’t trading Mercer. Not a trade fit IMO

haha, well I would do it....

 

[Captain3rdLine]

haha, well I would do it....

You would trade Mercer for Mcgroarty?!!

 

[57special]

Thank you. I had him pegged as an AHL player and kinda thought the Devils traded a Clarke for another one. The "works hard" is more than Clarke ever did.

My concerns:
Are his puck skills good? Stickhandling. One on one.

Meh

Passing accuracy or due to his desire to shoot so much is a puck hog? Puck hogs who easily get stripped of the puck aren't good for their line mates.

Decent passer, not a puck hog, but like any shooter, you don't have to ask him twice to let it fly.

Is he a team player? Well liked by his mates?

Very much

Is he successful in board battles?

No

Does he work the corners?

Tries, but it's more like the corners work him

Does he go to the net without the puck. Not just a perimeter forward.

Ehhh...

*Of his 190 shots what's a guess as to how many are on net or is that the number of SOG. Are his missed shots not in this number? I guess what I really want to know is his shooting accuracy. That was not clear in any of his assessments I've found. A guy known for his shot that takes 190 of them and only scores 19 goals raises a question mark.

He can snipe.

Clarke was our leading goal scorer, 25 in each of the last 2 seasons. Beckman was the Wild's #1 with a total of 19. Was the rest of the team that poor at finding the net or were they simply a team with no play makers. The Comets do get the puck to the shooters, but their main problem was they couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a scoop shovel. Most common shot is high and wide or directly into the keeper's crest.

Iowa was really bad last year. Lot's of injuries, new coach, very young D, Rossi was gone.

Hope you can help me out here. I'm hoping he is a better player than Clarke. Most of what I asked reflects what Clarke was, a perimeter player who was inept in his own zone, was a poor puck handler when pressed, forced shots when passes were the better option, poor forechecker, lost most every puck battle, not physical and knocked down a lot, could score goals with a good shot as long as he had time to set up the puck and had no bodies in his way. Puck skills so weak, shootouts were a spot he didn't belong. This is not a good description one would expect of a team's top goal producer. He took a team high 202 shots and scored 25 goals. I know he missed the net an exorbitant number of times.

Beckman and Clarke sound similar. Beckman has been playing two ways because it has been made clear to him that he had to, but he was a sniper in junior.

I'm hoping Beckman is a hockey player, not just a guy who can contribute a few goals.

*I have found a discrepancy, not that it matters, but AHL.com has listed Beckman's '23-24 shots at 150. That's 40 short of the 190 I've seen on this site. According to AHL.com Sammy Walker led the Wild in shots with 176.

A little more research shows that Beckman led the Wild in shots at 190 in '22-23 and that's the year they used to pump up his image a little after the trade, but he did score 24 goals that season. So, basically Clarke level goal scoring on a commensurate number of shots. This leads me to believe Beckman will replace Clarke's goals. As far as goal scoring, it just might be an equal swap. More a case of 2 teams giving up on their AHL goal scorers and swapping them to another franchise to give them a chance to improve under someone else's watch.

Yeah, about the same. If Beckman could pack on some muscle to his lean, long frame I think he could be a NHL'er. Right now he simply can't compete in board battles...he tried to fight a couple of times in pre season, and it was ugly.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Yea no, they need a much better bottom 6, a better LD (ideally one who can take top pair minutes), and a top 6 winger. Aka...exactly what Fitz said the team needs. It has 0 to do with the injuries.

I can't believe you all still think goalie was the only issue with the roster.

It’s as though you had the spiel memorized and didn’t even read the post you were responding to. Who said we didn’t need to add some stuff? None of those things are even remotely close to the big pieces we have in place.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Yea no, they need a much better bottom 6, a better LD (ideally one who can take top pair minutes), and a top 6 winger. Aka...exactly what Fitz said the team needs. It has 0 to do with the injuries.

I can't believe you all still think goalie was the only issue with the roster.



haha, well I would do it....

Literally no one person has ever said all they needed was a goalie.

I don't know why people like you and Jim keep saying these things.

 

[JimEIV]

Oh no, line-up turnover in the NHL! How can we possibly survive that? No other team, including the Devils, has possibly experienced such a thing (every season).

The another fun part here is in the off-season before 2022-23 you were convinced that our line-up was incapable of being more productive offensively.

And yet it was.

Very strange post.