Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

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Guadana

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Mar 7, 2012
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Gut what little forward prospect depth we have... I'd sooner trade Casey, and I really don't want to trade Casey. But yeah, I absolutely could see Gritz being traded for some overpriced goalie that won't make us much better.
Yeah, mostly we svck. I would save all Grits, Casey, Lenny, 10 OA of course. And even would try to save Holtz. There are tonns of options on free agent market. Fitz is focusing on what he is wanting to a lot and he is trying to take this players. Doesnt quite smart for me because Graves for example didnt play for a long, he wasnt as good as we would want him to see. Same for Toffoli(I read he tried to trade him before, may be Im worng). Even same for Palat. Its okay when player isnt 100+% of what we are waiting, but it clearly show managers dont need to focus on players a lot. Fitz focused on johnny Gaudreaunee who even didnt want to play here. And you know - it was great to not sign him. May be the best Fitz decision in his Devils career.

Drafting Nygard would be second/may be third after Nemec draft. Okay - Jack jr was a great decision to pick and sign older Jack right after that before he will stop to celebrate it.
 

PKs Broken Stick

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Oct 9, 2008
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yeah, I don't know where this stuff on Ullmark is coming from. Dude was a fine goalie in Buffalo. As Bleed said, not great in 18-19, but good the other two years. I think we can all agree that you can just throw out the Vezina year as being an aberration, but he's still been a solid goalie outside of that.

The reason I prefer Markstrom over Ullmark is that I have 0 faith in Ullmark's ability to play 50+ games in a season and I definitely have 0 faith in him being good for 23-28 games over the course of a playoff run.

I also like that Markstrom has 2 years left as opposed to either getting Ullmark as a rental or giving him a 6 x 5 or 6 x 6 extension.

He was ok, not amazing. Not something I want to give up significant assets for. We had a goalie already who played pretty well, until he didn't because he got injured constantly. Rather not go through that again and give up assets.
 

PKs Broken Stick

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Was Schmid the reason we lost to Carolina in the playoffs? I don't think so. Yes, we need a good goalie. But a no goalie is a magic wand. There seems to be a very, imo, false line of thinking that "All we need is a good goalie". No, sorry, the team would have been no better this past year with Markstrom, Ullmark or Saros. This is evidenced by Allen and Kahk playing phenomenal down the stretch and the team still being completely unable to string multiple wins together. There are other things that need to be addressed. Goalie is just one. We can't leave the other holes, or potentially create more, trying to get a goalie we think will magically fix everything.

Bingo. The play of Allen/Kahk was very good and gave them a chance to win every game. They had severe deficiencies in other areas, but people refuse to see that for who knows what reason.
 

Unknown Caller

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Apr 30, 2009
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Bingo. The play of Allen/Kahk was very good and gave them a chance to win every game. They had severe deficiencies in other areas, but people refuse to see that for who knows what reason.
When they finally had reliable play from Allen and Kahkonen they had Travis Green as an interim head coach, no Dougie Hamilton, no Tyler Toffoli, no Michael McLeod, an injured/scratched Jack Hughes, Marino and Siegenthaler out for extended stretches, no Colin Miller, no Nate Bastian, etc.

Nobody is refusing to see the deficiencies, but that team was a shell of itself going through the motions. They were giving consistent minutes to guys like Shane Bowers, Brian Halonen, Chris Tierney, and Nick DeSimone.

Good goaltending with a healthy lineup would have launched that team into the stratosphere.
 

SpeakingOfTheDevils

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Jan 22, 2010
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He would be an extremely high upside reclamation project. It would totally depend on managements view about whether he can buy in, return to form and you can get him to play a totally focused defensive and team game too. What’s in it for Laine is reviving his career that is going down the drain. Who is he: is he really nothing but a loser?

In looking at the Devils from the point of view of how Florida is now dominant, the conclusion I draw is not that the Devils must become big and heavy. It’s that we must become a superlative defensive club. First things first here is our defensive play. You don’t have to be a big heavy guy to play great defense. Just ask Bob Gainey and Rejean Houle and the rosters of the highly skilled Montreal cup winning teams that were some of the best defensive clubs of all time.

If Scotty Bowman ( or whoever was coach) could get Frank Mahovolich to commit to D, why not Patrick Laine ?
Because we're past all that. We have our talent core and we have our big contracts. It's time to fine-tune the roster (and get a damn goalie) and contend every year... which you say as much in your second paragraph.

It's an expensive roll of the dice. It's a move Chicago or Anaheim should make, not us.
 

Zippy316

aka Zippo
Aug 17, 2012
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I would take Ehlers. We’d just have to get at least 2 big boys to offset the move. Ehlers, Carrier, Trenin?
More of a strictly fourth line guy, but Aube Kubel is another interesting target. Replaces some of that speed we’re missing too.

Part of me does wonder if the Devils might move Bastian out this off-season, just to get a different look on the fourth line.
 
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Bleedred

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Was Schmid the reason we lost to Carolina in the playoffs? I don't think so. Yes, we need a good goalie. But a no goalie is a magic wand. There seems to be a very, imo, false line of thinking that "All we need is a good goalie". No, sorry, the team would have been no better this past year with Markstrom, Ullmark or Saros. This is evidenced by Allen and Kahk playing phenomenal down the stretch and the team still being completely unable to string multiple wins together. There are other things that need to be addressed. Goalie is just one. We can't leave the other holes, or potentially create more, trying to get a goalie we think will magically fix everything.
Hard disagree with ''The team would have been no better with Markstrom, Ullmark or Saros'' because ''This is evidenced by Allen and Kahk playing phenomenal down the stretch and the team still being completely unable to string multiple wins together''.

You've left out that when Allen and Kahk played phenomenally down the stretch and the team was still completely unable to string multiple wins together, it was when Travis Green was the interim head coach. We didn't have Allen or Kahkonen at any point before Green was the interim head coach.

If we had Markstrom, Ullmark or Saros, I'm operating under the assumption that they would have already been here for most of the year and while Ruff was still here. All of those names are better than Daws, Schmid and the useless sack of shit that Vitek was.

Even acknowledging that the expected save percentages on the team last year under Ruff were quite a few points under the league average save percentage, we would have been better with Markstrom, Ullmark or Saros last year, especially since we won a pretty decent amount of games before Ruff was fired with Vitek (who greatly overachieved in wins) and the kids, who are all inferior to those 3 goalies. We were just on the playoff borderline about 2 weeks before Ruff was fired. Any of those guys are an upgrade over what we had, even taking into account the more chaotic hockey that was being played in front of them.

''There are other things that need to be addressed''

Well one BIG one that was a problem when we had Allen and Kahkonen playing phenomenally down the stretch but couldn't string wins together has already been eliminated and is over in Ottawa getting ready to sabotage them.

Travis Green is one of the worst head coaches the league has had in the last decade. He's so bad that I came one win off my prediction for what our record would be in 21 games under him. We won one more game/got two more points than I had predicted.

Travis Green was the biggest problem with the team at the end of the season. The biggest problem we had after we had acquired better goalies. That's how bad Travis Green is, that we lost all those games with the best goaltending we had all season, while staying in the playoff race all year with Ruff and dreadful goaltending.

Any head coach you can think of and wanna compare to Green that has coached here, other than the obvious in John MacLean, doesn't have shit on Green. As bad as you may think Hynes or Ruff were or even Nasreddine, none of them have SHIT on Travis Green.

It would have been really fun to see the Vitek/Daws/Schmid combo under Green, rather than two new guys. I'd have to think Vitek would have played as many of the games as Allen did, while Daws/Schmid or both would have gotten the few games they combined for anyway, on top of the games Kahkonen got. I can't wait to see Green as head coach with Korpisalo as his starting goalie. That could be disastrous.
 
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Triumph

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Oct 2, 2007
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I never imagine that Russians who haven't come over for 5 years have any value - do we know if Gritsyuk is a Milstein client? That's the only way I can see Calgary being interested in someone like that - they have a lot of Russian players and have worked extensively with Milstein. Gritsyuk is eligible to be UFA in July 2028, that's not a lot of cost-controlled time.
 

Bleedred

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And in catching up on some other things I missed yesterday, I think there's little chance both Daws and Schmid are in this organization to start the year. Probably a better chance than miniscule, but still not a good chance they're both here.

One of them is probably going back the other way in a goalie trade. Even if they have no intention on using whoever they acquire in the NHL this year.

I would not bet a whole lot on both Daws and Schmid being with the Devils organization by training camp.
 

JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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No goaltender would have made the difference for us this season. None. Not a single goaltender in the league could have hid the deficiencies of our team.

If your skaters don't perform, both offensively and defensively there is nothing a goalie can do.

A goalie can only stand on his head for a certain amount time without support, the other team ALWAYS eventually breaks through....just look at Seshtetkin in these playoffs.
 

NJDevs26

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There is an Option C, acquire Askarov, sign Kakh and carry 3 goalies.

Montreal carried 3 goalies last season until Allen was dealt. Detroit carried 3 for entire season.

Why carry 3 goalies? It will allow a young goalie like Askarov to get NHL coaching and reps. Allow extra evaluation time for Kakh to see if he would be a better option than Jake Allen. Also, one of Allen/Kakh is a potential trade chip at deadline once we have figured out who better guy is.

Why it won't work. Limits roster flexibility. Inefficient use of cap space. We don't have a very good NHL goalie coach.
That isn't realistic at all...even aside from how problematic it would be trying to trade for Askarov and trying to work three goalies in on an ostensibly contending team (Montreal was not and Detroit didn't make the playoffs either), why would Kahk sign here as a third choice behind two guys we traded more assets for when he could get a straight backup job somewhere else?
 

JimEIV

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Also...if we add a goalie to this team without fixing the forwards, the defense and the PK... or without addressing those issues at least somewhat... we will have a repeat of this season.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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No goaltender would have made the difference for us this season. None. Not a single goaltender in the league could have hid the deficiencies of our team.

If your skaters don't perform, both offensively and defensively there is nothing a goalie can do.

A goalie can only stand on his head for a certain amount time without support, the other team ALWAYS eventually breaks through....just look at Seshtetkin in these playoffs.

this is silly. Sure it wouldn't have made us true contenders, but we absolutely would have made the playoffs with league average goaltending for the entire year.

No one is saying the roster doesn't need some tweaking. But goalies sunk this team over and over again this year.

Also...if we add a goalie to this team without fixing the forwards, the defense and the PK... or without addressing those issues at least somewhat... we will have a repeat of this season.

the Devils PK was in the top 1/3rd of the league.
 

MasterofGrond

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No goaltender would have made the difference for us this season. None. Not a single goaltender in the league could have hid the deficiencies of our team.

If your skaters don't perform, both offensively and defensively there is nothing a goalie can do.

A goalie can only stand on his head for a certain amount time without support, the other team ALWAYS eventually breaks through....just look at Seshtetkin in these playoffs.
The skaters weren’t nearly as bad as you’re making out. Yeah they were worse than the year before, no question. The defense in particular did a pretty bad job preventing chances through the back half of the year.

But even with injuries the Devils were a pretty good team offensively. Anything better than what they had in net, and there’s a decent chance they sneak into the playoffs. League average goaltending gets the team pretty close to an even GD, for example.
 

megajake

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Aug 24, 2009
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Lots of team can say if they had league average goaltending they'd make playoffs. Or if they had a real #1 defenseman or center. Fact of the matter is Devils need a lot more then just goaltending.
 
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Zajacs Bowl Cut

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Lots of team can say if they had league average goaltending they'd make playoffs. Or if they had a real #1 defenseman or center. Fact of the matter is Devils need a lot more then just goaltending.

name these teams, would love to hear

the Devils finished 10th in the league in xG%. And before you say you don't care about that, the only team ahead of them that didn't make the playoffs was Philly. And two of the top 4 are in the Finals.

Again, the roster needs improvements. It isn't good enough just yet. However, this implication that we need like half of a new team is kind of ridiculous. It isn't true.
 

NJDevs26

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And in catching up on some other things I missed yesterday, I think there's little chance both Daws and Schmid are in this organization to start the year. Probably a better chance than miniscule, but still not a good chance they're both here.

One of them is probably going back the other way in a goalie trade. Even if they have no intention on using whoever they acquire in the NHL this year.

I would not bet a whole lot on both Daws and Schmid being with the Devils organization by training camp.
Yeah even if you think they don't need to trade for a goalie, Fitz is adamant he doesn't want the kids up here next year. If you want to go cheap, the most logical thing would be to have Allen as the 1A, and one of the kids as 1B so the other kid and Poulter would be the AHL goalies but that's pretty much going down the same route they went down this year, only at least Allen seems to have a little more mental fortitude than Vitek.

If you don't have any of the kids here, and don't trade any, you have three for two spots in the AHL. For that reason alone (and the fact they don't want the kids here) it's probably time to **** or get off the pot and either commit to them as the 1B or trade one.
 
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SpeakingOfTheDevils

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I just don't understand some people's obsession with Laine. He is a net negative as a player. Sure, he can score goals, but beyond that he literally sucks at everything else. Plus he has a seemingly bad attitude.
Bad attitude, and he's apparently addicted to video games...? Forget an NHL player you're trying to win with, that's a red flag for any grown man.

*ducks*
 
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