Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[Forge]

But, we've just been through that. Our "internal option" (Blackwood) self-combusted, and our "short term stopgaps" torpedoed the team.

Put a different way: I'd rather the team commit to Kahkonen for three (or four) years than Markstrom for two.

Let's pick a direction and go with it. Enough of this kicking the can business. Markstrom is nothing more than a stopgap himself - and one we'll have to pay for in assets and cap space. What's the point?

Going through that previously doesn't make grabbing Ullmark for 7 years a good decision.

Any decision will have good / bad results.

I do not want to bet on Ullmark for 7 years given his health issues

 

[tailfins]

Ignoring that goals were down back then? He was tied for 19th in 2019-2020 in save %. 39th in 2018-2019. 2020-2021 was the only year he was above average, and that was a 20 game sample. You need to look deeper into stats

2019-20: Ullmark had a .915 save %. League average was .910. He was tied for 19 out of 57 goaltenders with minimum 20 games played.

All of that is "above average".

Going through that previously doesn't make grabbing Ullmark for 7 years a good decision.

Any decision will have good / bad results.

I do not want to bet on Ullmark for 7 years given his health issues

Fair.

I just don't see that point in Markstrom. Too much risk / not enough upside to me. I'd rather roll with Broissoit, Kahkonen, etc.

If Fitz gets Markstrom, though, I'll be good with it. Nervous. But, at least it's a decision.

 

[Goptor]

I believe Markstrom will be in NJ, and it will not cost that much in trade value.

Calgary really bungled the trade deadline with him. Asking him to waive his NMC and then backing out of the deal. Now Markstrom doesn't want to be in Calgary AND he knows the Devils want to trade for him.

Only way he's not here is if Calgary is so completely embarrassed that they keep him there. The fastest way to torpedo a season is if your goalie doesn't want to play for the team. Their management has already proven they are stupid though, so there's a chance they don't realize that keeping him will throw the next season and crater his trade value into a cap dump.

 

[Ripshot 43]

Nemec, Mercer, #10 overall for Markstrom with no retention

I don’t normally call for people to be fired….

 

[My3Sons]

Nemec, Mercer, #10 overall for Markstrom with no retention

Cocaine is a helluva drug.

 

[Forge]

I believe Markstrom will be in NJ, and it will not cost that much in trade value.

Calgary really bungled the trade deadline with him. Asking him to waive his NMC and then backing out of the deal. Now Markstrom doesn't want to be in Calgary AND he knows the Devils want to trade for him.

Only way he's not here is if Calgary is so completely embarrassed that they keep him there. The fastest way to torpedo a season is if your goalie doesn't want to play for the team. Their management has already proven they are stupid though, so there's a chance they don't realize that keeping him will throw the next season and crater his trade value into a cap dump.

You still have to give Calgary something to make it worth it. It could potentially limit the upside of his trade (I'm skeptical that teams like Ottawa or Toronto are going to push it super far).

You don't want a guy that doesn't want to be there, but it's not like teams haven't done it before. John Gibson seems to have been asking for a trade for like 3 years now and Anaheim doesn't appear to care at all. So I think you the return will still be pretty solid for Calgary.

 

[ndkjr70]

I wouldn’t trade Nemec for Shesterkin with an extension lol.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Ignoring that goals were down back then? He was tied for 19th in 2019-2020 in save %. 39th in 2018-2019. 2020-2021 was the only year he was above average, and that was a 20 game sample. You need to look deeper into stats

The average goals per game by team was 3.11 in 2023-24

In 2018-19, in the middle of Ullmark's tenure in Buffalo, they were 3.01, and 3.02 the next year.

That is a difference of ~8 goals per team over a full season, on average. It really is not a big difference whatsoever.

 

[Goptor]

You still have to give Calgary something to make it worth it. It could potentially limit the upside of his trade (I'm skeptical that teams like Ottawa or Toronto are going to push it super far).

You don't want a guy that doesn't want to be there, but it's not like teams haven't done it before. John Gibson seems to have been asking for a trade for like 3 years now and Anaheim doesn't appear to care at all. So I think you the return will still be pretty solid for Calgary.

There is no chance he goes to the mess in Ottawa. That rumor was 100% a Flames employee trying to create leverage.
He already refused to waive his NMC for LA.
Toronto is Toronto. Maybe he wants to go there. The hardships of being a goalie for the Leafs is well documented though.


John Gibson is a poor example to give up. He's been terrible in Anaheim for those 3 years and they will have to give up value just to get rid of his contract. I also don't think they really care. Management wants to lose games and Gibson helps them lose games. Calgary hasn't blown up the team yet.

 

[Forge]

John Gibson is a poor example to give up. He's been terrible in Anaheim for those 3 years and they will have to give up value just to get rid of his contract. I also don't think they really care. Management wants to lose games and Gibson helps them lose games. Calgary hasn't blown up the team yet.

Doesn't matter what the example is as the example itself isn't really the point. Not everyone who asks for a trade gets traded is the point.

 

[megajake]

The average goals per game by team was 3.11 in 2023-24

In 2018-19, in the middle of Ullmark's tenure in Buffalo, they were 3.01, and 3.02 the next year.

That is a difference of ~8 goals per team over a full season, on average. It really is not a big difference whatsoever.

That doesn't worry you at all when you need to factor in a new contract for Ullmark? You willing to pay him 8 million a year long term? I don't think I am as much as I'd like an upgrade in net.

 

[Guttersniped]

Nemec, Mercer, #10 overall for Markstrom with no retention

It won’t be anything too crazy, just a “combination of high draft picks”.


Just going to point what they got for…

Hanifin:
2026 VGK 1st
2024 VGK 3rd #84
26 year old undrafted defenseman with 49 NHL GP

Tanev:
2024 DAL 2nd #62
Their 10th-16th best prospect (depending on what ranking you go by)

Lindholm:
2024 VAN 1st #28
2024 NJD 4th #107
A guy Vancouver just drafted in the 2023 draft in the 3rd Rd (#75)
An unsigned 2020 3rd round pick
Kuzmenko (Semi-cap dump for Van)

Zadarov:
2024 CHI 5th #131
2026 VAN 3rd

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

Nemec, Mercer, #10 overall for Markstrom with no retention

Now I’m really hoping some other dumbass team trades for him so this lunacy can be over. How can you call yourself credible when spewing out this crap even if it is just for clicks and attention. f*** off already!

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Was Schmid the reason we lost to Carolina in the playoffs? I don't think so. Yes, we need a good goalie. But a no goalie is a magic wand. There seems to be a very, imo, false line of thinking that "All we need is a good goalie". No, sorry, the team would have been no better this past year with Markstrom, Ullmark or Saros. This is evidenced by Allen and Kahk playing phenomenal down the stretch and the team still being completely unable to string multiple wins together. There are other things that need to be addressed. Goalie is just one. We can't leave the other holes, or potentially create more, trying to get a goalie we think will magically fix everything.

 

[Devils731]

Nemec, Mercer, #10 overall for Markstrom with no retention

It feels like I’m in crazy world where Markstrom has been a perennial Vezina candidate the last 4 years, rather than fairly average in 3 of the last 4 years. That’s beside the fact that goalies his age usually are getting worse year over year.

Ya, with Markstrom the Devils have the 2nd best local goal. What an awful take from that guy.

It’s an unfair comparison for Markstrom since he’s fine and they’re both great; it’s crazy to think Markstrom may be the second best local goalie if he came.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

That doesn't worry you at all when you need to factor in a new contract for Ullmark? You willing to pay him 8 million a year long term? I don't think I am as much as I'd like an upgrade in net.

That is a much different discussion than "Ullmark was not even good in Buffalo"

 

[Forge]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1800951882531086457

I'm listening now, but haven't gotten to this part yet

 

[OmNomNom]

i'm guessing fitz has a few buns in the oven and is trying to lower the price for markstrom or someone else?. maybe he's leveraging other asks to get the best deal

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

It feels like I’m in crazy world where Markstrom has been a perennial Verona candidate the last 4 years, rather than fairly average in 3 of the last 4 years. That’s beside the fact that goalies his age usually are getting worse year over year.

Ya, with Markstrom the Devils have the 2nd best local goal. What an awful take from that guy.

It’s an unfair comparison for Markstrom since he’s fine and they’re both great; it’s crazy to think Markstrom may be the end best local goalie if he came.
View attachment 881944

I’m much more comfortable going with Kahkonen for 0 assets and less money than giving up a haul for Markstrom. What are the odds that either of them are significantly above or below average? I bet they both end up in the ‘meh’ bin.

The question for Kahk would be how many games can we expect from him and could he be a 1A. But we have a perfectly respectable backup now plus two guys with fairly significant NHL experience behind him.

 

[Devils731]

i'm guessing fitz has a few buns in the oven and is trying to lower the price for markstrom or someone else?. maybe he's leveraging other asks to get the best deal

It seems to me, based on how early we hear rumors and how we’ve heard some contract discussions have played out, that Fitz is very comfortable going “I’ve given you a good and fair offer. I won’t be increasing it. Please let me know if you’re interested.”

I don’t know how hardball Fitz plays though. If Calgary nixed an effectively done deal for Markstrom near the deadline then I’d currently be holding the line at even less than what I offered then.

 

[megajake]

That is a much different discussion than "Ullmark was not even good in Buffalo"

Nobody said he wasn't good in Buffalo, just his save % back then shouldn't be compared to him right now. A save % of .915 was good for 7th in the NHL this past season; where in 2019-2020 it was ranked 19th.

 

[MartyOwns]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1800951882531086457

 

[Forge]

The funniest thing about Markstrom is that he's basically an above average goaltender if you lay it out, but he seldom plays above average. In his last 4 years he's been good - very good or he's just been flat out kind of bad. He's not really had an above average season in the last 4 with calgary lol

 

[glenwo2]

Nemec, Mercer, #10 overall for Markstrom with no retention

That must be some Top-Tier weed they're smoking in Toronto (where Steve hails from).

 

[Guttersniped]

I don't understand the bolded.

I understand that 2 years is a year longer than 1 year. But, what's supposed to magically happen in 2 years?

Is the timeline that Schmid / Daws are in the AHL next year, one is a back-up in year 2, then that goalie is a full-time starter in year 3? That seems incredibly ambitious. I know Daws will be 25 / 26 in that year, so timing is right (Swayman turns 26 in November). But, what happens if Schmid / Daws don't pan out? Or if they take a little longer (as others have pointed out, Markstrom didn't break out until he was 27).

I understand that Schneider broke down at 30, and Bernier at 33, but I think there's lower risk with Ullmark at 30 vs Markstrom at 34. I get that if Markstrom implodes, you're out of the contract in two years. But, what's the point of that if there's no replacement? We've just gone through years of not having a goalie. Would it matter if our bad goalie was the same guy vs a rotating cast of characters? And, if Daws is ready to take over in three years - ok, you've got an expensive back-up. I'd rather have that vs no goalie.

Ullmark can block a trade here with his 16 team no trade list and has been vocal about not wanting to be moved.

He doesn’t want to move his family for one season and he’s in no hurry to leave the Bruins for obvious reasons. Both are understandable.