Confirmed with Link: Devils Acquire John Marino for Ty Smith & a 2023 3rd Round Pick

[Lou Bloom]

Any thoughts on the claims that Marino is a product of the Pittsburgh system and will not be nearly as good in NJ. And also Pittsburgh is supposedly turning Ty Smith into a top D man now.

How much of this is just Pens fans and anti-Devils people trying to spin the trade in favor of Pittsburgh or is there even a tiny bit of truth to this? Does it overrate the Pens defence system/coaching and winning culture?

He's averaged the 3rd highest TOI for the Pens since he debuted only behind Letang and Dumoulin. If he was solely a product of their system they wouldn't have utilized him as much as they had and they wouldn't have given him a long term contract at $4.4M.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Player election deadline is tomorrow .

I would also be incredibly surprised if he does not file for arbitration. Players almost always do as it's one of the few bargaining chips they have in their favor. There really is no downside for Bratt to file.. even if he wants out, arbitration would be the fastest path towards FA.

Also, to answer the original question posed, arbitration doesn't affect timing towards UFA. It's still 7 accrued seasons or age 26. Bratt has 5 accrued seasons at age 23 so 2 more seasons would get him to UFA. If he elects arbitration, the Devils would have the choice to pick a 1 or 2 year award. They'd likely pick a 1 year award so they can be back in this position next year rather than Bratt having a direct route to UFA.

There is absolutely a downside for the player. Based on what Bratt has done so far in his career the arbitrator would not likely give him a number close to what he’s looking for. Can’t think he’d even get over 6 or at least not much over.

I doubt he will for that reason. Unless the figures being discussed between him and the devils are much lower than we expect here.

 

[ninetyeight]

He's averaged the 3rd highest TOI for the Pens since he debuted only behind Letang and Dumoulin. If he was solely a product of their system they wouldn't have utilized him as much as they had and they wouldn't have given him a long term contract at $4.4M.

That wasn't really the question though, he was obviously good in Pittsburgh, that much is clear.

 

[MtoD]

There is absolutely a downside for the player. Based on what Bratt has done so far in his career the arbitrator would not likely give him a number close to what he’s looking for. Can’t think he’d even get over 6.

If the Devils were giving him a number close to what he's looking for, he would be signed by now.

Filing for arbitration is a huge bargaining chip in Bratt's favor as it would get him closer to the holy grail of UFA. It forces a contract to get done.

If he doesn't file, the ball is almost entirely in the Devils court as, outside of offer sheets, there is nothing Bratt can do to ensure he even has a contract next season.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

This trade can be pretty big for us. With Luke , Nemec , Shakir and all the other d men we stockpiled the last few drafts it’s looking like our defense is going to be much better in the near and distant future.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

If the Devils were giving him a number close to what he's looking for, he would be signed by now.

Filing for arbitration is a huge bargaining chip in Bratt's favor as it would get him closer to the holy grail of UFA. It forces a contract to get done.

If he doesn't file, the ball is almost entirely in the Devils court as, outside of offer sheets, there is nothing Bratt can do to ensure he even has a contract next season.

The Devils want him to get resigned. I also never said him and the devils were close although they could be, we don’t really know. But if you’re filing for arbitration you and don’t have a great case which I doubt Bratt would you’re forcing yourself into a contract that’s potentially much lower than what you wanted and leaving dollars on the table.

He also doesn’t necessarily want to have short deal to get to UFA. He just had a huge career year that he’s far from guarenteed to repeat and he could very reasonably be looking to cash in on that.

The Devils don’t want to go into next season without Bratt signed just as much as Bratt wants to have a contract. It’s a two way street and two party negotiation.

Arbitration is only a huge bargaining chip if the team is giving you lower than your value offers and you have a good arbitration case that would bring that number up significantly. I don’t think that’s the case with Bratt at all. He could very likely be leaving a ton of money on the table by going through arbitration.

We’ll see tomorrow.

 

[RSeen]

This trade can be pretty big for us. With Luke , Nemec , Shakir and all the other d men we stockpiled the last few drafts it’s looking like our defense is going to be much better in the near and distant future.

This is some spectacular work by Fitz. I've seen some say this is an equal trade for both teams, but I really think we fleeced the Pens.

Getting a RD who will be our shut-down guy and can take hard minutes away from Dougie and Nemec will be very valuable. The fact that he is 25 and locked up for 5 years at a reasonable cap hit makes it even better.

 

[Power Surge]

This is some spectacular work by Fitz. I've seen some say this is an equal trade for both teams, but I really think we fleeced the Pens.

Like Smith, Marino had a not so great sophomore season and was much better the following year. Defenseman take longer to develop and that's why you can't make final judgments when they are in their early 20s.

I was pretty happy with the result of both trades combined, overall. On paper our D looks much better than it did yesterday. And that's not penciling Smith in the lineup yet.

Anyhow, good luck to you guys next year. I like the direction you guys are heading with your roster decisions. You're my pick to make the playoff next year, I think Washington will take a back seat.

 

[devilsblood]

Any thoughts on the claims that Marino is a product of the Pittsburgh system and will not be nearly as good in NJ. And also Pittsburgh is supposedly turning Ty Smith into a top D man now.

How much of this is just Pens fans and anti-Devils people trying to spin the trade in favor of Pittsburgh or is there even a tiny bit of truth to this? Does it overrate the Pens defence system/coaching and winning culture?

I don't really know much about Marino. But looking at his stats he was used as a defense oriented mid pairing guy, as well as on their top PK unit. Prior to the draft that type of player is exactly who I wanted on our 3rd pair (though I expected it to be an older vet) Once we got Nemec, a mid pairing guy of that ilk makes more sense as it will allow him an easier passage into the league.

Does that answer the question as to the Pitt system propping him up? Maybe not but I find it difficult to say any player who plays more difficult defensive minutes for a team is being propped up.

As per Ty? People can say it was just a sophomore slump, and maybe that plays into it, but he's small and he's slow. Today we see more and more small yet effective d-men, but they are almost always good/quick/fast skaters. I find it hard to believe any system will make him look like a good player. Maybe, like Butche,r you can shelter him to the point where he is effective, but like Butcher that doesn't make him a good player.

 

[devilsblood]

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this already, but with this trade, other than Bahl and Siegenthaler, who played a few games at the end of that season, Damon Severson is now the only defenseman who played for the Devils two years ago.

I was thinking this as well. A complete remake of the defense.

Now I was considering the Okhotyuk draft as a Shero draft, but someone mentioned that Fitz was really the overseer of that draft? If we go by the thinking that those are his guys, and OK beats out Bahl, then the D this season are all Fitz guys. If we don't buy that line of thought, or if Bahl wins that spot, then all but one 3rd pairing guy is a Fitz acquisition.

 

[ninetyeight]

Fwiw I don't think a good coach/system can make a terrible player good, but it can make a good player look great. I wouldn't be that shocked if we are still terrible defensively because of Lindy's system.

But overall I feel like the roster is starting to be competitive. The top6 still needs a 30-40 goal winger, maybe that's Sharangovich, maybe it's Holtz, maybe we trade for one. And ofcourse we need an elite goalie, but that's easier said than done. But the defence looks set with Hughes and Nemec coming in soon, a good balance of offensive skill and shutdown. Now it's just a matter of finding the right coaches.

 

[MadDevil]

Sorry, the phrase "laces out" has been going through my head ever since I read about this trade.

 

[Triumph]

People only think Marino is a product of the Pittsburgh system because he was a 6th round pick who signed as a free agent, and nobody was talking about him before that happened

 

[13BearerOfHope]

would you guys trade Bratt + Severson for (an extended) Tkachuk?

This would be an awesome trade. I love Bratt and Damon - they are real nice fellows too both on and off the ice. Tkachuk seems like F-er on ice, and that’s what we need to win. Rather be fan of a successful team than a piss poor team full of really nice people. What do you all prefer?

 

[Nico Hischier]

would you guys trade Bratt + Severson for (an extended) Tkachuk?

I would have definitely traded Bratt for tkachuk if we landed gaudreau but that’s over now and I don’t think I want to trade Bratt anymore unless he won’t resign.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I’d just like to point something out. What Fitz is doing here is real team building. You can see that he’s trying to put together a well balanced roster. He sees the specific gaps in the balance and is addressing them.

This is a night and day difference from how Shero operated, whose MO was basically “who’s the best player I can get for the best value, without regard for how my team is already constructed or what our needs are”.

I just want to say I really appreciate what Fitz is doing right now. Just a breath of fresh air for an organization that has seemed to rudderless for so long. I was worried about the Palat signing but in the context of the other moves so far I feel better about it now. The next step is to apply the same process to the coaching staff.

For the first time in a long while I have some optimism.

 

[tailfins]

I’d just like to point something out. What Fitz is doing here is real team building. You can see that he’s trying to put together a well balanced roster. He sees the specific gaps in the balance and is addressing them.

This is a night and day difference from how Shero operated, whose MO was basically “who’s the best player I can get for the best value, without regard for how my team is already constructed or what our needs are”.

I just want to say I really appreciate what Fitz is doing right now. Just a breath of fresh air for an organization that has seemed to rudderless for so long. I was worried about the Palat signing but in the context of the other moves so far I feel better about it now. The next step is to apply the same process to the coaching staff.

For the first time in a long while I have some optimism.

I’m not a big Shero apologist, but I do think context matters. Shero’s job was basically to stock the cupboards. Fitz’s job is to make sure we have the right mix of ingredients. I can see the argument that these are two different tasks.

Of course, other than Ty Smith, Fitz has remade the D without using any prospect assets - it’s just cap space and draft picks, both of which Shero had access to. So, I think the Shero argument only go so far.

 

[RSeen]

Like Smith, Marino had a not so great sophomore season and was much better the following year. Defenseman take longer to develop and that's why you can't make final judgments when they are in their early 20s.

I was pretty happy with the result of both trades combined, overall. On paper our D looks much better than it did yesterday. And that's not penciling Smith in the lineup yet.

Anyhow, good luck to you guys next year. I like the direction you guys are heading with your roster decisions. You're my pick to make the playoff next year, I think Washington will take a back seat.

I'm not saying Smith is done developing but it is difficult to see him turning into a legit top 4 option given some of his limitations. He would need to significantly improve his skating and get a lot stronger. Its possible but I would view it as unlikely.

And I don't see how the Pens got better with trading Morino and Matheson and bringing in Petry. Whether or not Smith is in the lineup, its hard to see the Pens being a better team.

 

[MartyOwns]

imagine thinking shero and fitz walked into a similar situation

 

[guitarguyvic]

imagine thinking shero and fitz walked into a similar situation

Even given the different situations…Shero was a rudderless ship. Collecting picks but then simultaneously making “win now” moves but with zero team building strategy. The dude completely ignored certain needs both in long and short term moves.

He sucked. Plain and simple. He did this same BS in Pitt the only difference is he was propped up by two generational talents. He got fired from there and they pretty much immediately won two Stanley cups because the new GM took the steps Ray wasn’t willing to.

 

[MadDevil]

If Shero traded for Marino we'd be hearing about all he ever does is bring in former Pens.

 

[Power Surge]

I'm not saying Smith is done developing but it is difficult to see him turning into a legit top 4 option given some of his limitations. He would need to significantly improve his skating and get a lot stronger. Its possible but I would view it as unlikely.

And I don't see how the Pens got better with trading Morino and Matheson and bringing in Petry. Whether or not Smith is in the lineup, its hard to see the Pens being a better team.

We also brought in Jan Rutta from TB so yes, we completely changed the makeup. Like I said, on paper I like what I see. We did need change.

As far as Smith, if they send him to Wilkes Barre for the year let him develop and get some confidence we'll see. He will get an opportunity in camp to compete with Pierre-Oliver Joseph (who is NHL ready) for 3LD. It'll be a tall task for Smith to beat out POJ.

 

[JimEIV]

Well John does wear isotoner gloves

This is another "You can tell who the old people are" post

 

[Homedresser]

would you guys trade Bratt + Severson for (an extended) Tkachuk?

definitely but Calgary won't go for that. Simply using logic you get an extended Tkachuk and Flames get RFA Bratt and an upcoming UFA Severson? Why would they ever do that? Even if you use HF logic and get an extended Tkachuk and give Bratt and Severson their extensions at apprx 8M per why would the Flames give up the best player by far and take on approx 16M in cap space for those two players?

 

[RSeen]

We also brought in Jan Rutta from TB so yes, we completely changed the makeup. Like I said, on paper I like what I see. We did need change.

As far as Smith, if they send him to Wilkes Barre for the year let him develop and get some confidence we'll see. He will get an opportunity in camp to compete with Pierre-Oliver Joseph (who is NHL ready) for 3LD. It'll be a tall task for Smith to beat out POJ.

Rutta is a bottom pair mediocre Dman. He hardly moves the needle. Pens clearly got worse IMO.