Devils 2021-22 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XII

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JrFischer54

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severson is going to get paid OVER market value if he hits the open market. so say he does leave here and that overpayment happens everyone on here will be like "no way would i ever pay that for severson thats insane" point is not to let him hit the open market where he will get that big contract. like him or not the devils do need him in the lineup because you can't be relying on hughes or muk or bahl to step in when they haven't proven they can do that. pay him now i say
 

Zippy316

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Also just a quick glance at CapFriendly and trying to deal Subban this trade deadline will be tough, even at 50% retention.

Nashville is the only good team with a healthy amount of cap space, but no chance that’s happening.

Boston could with sending back some salary, but I think they need a LD more than a RD. I wouldn’t mind taking back Clifton as our extra D for next season. Maybe could use this as DeBrusk’s change of scenery while sending back a forward too?

Minnesota is an option with Spurgeon on IR clearing up a RD spot. Probably need to send some salary out, like Rask.

Im sure there’s other options in the cap strapped teams, but those are the few that stand out with some space.
 

Zippy316

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i loved the pick at the time and still do to an extent if the kid can put it all together with his size he can be something special. that being said though the devils really should've thought about their timeline with his timeline and learning curve. if your telling me hes x amount of time away and we are what already a two years away from the draft thats a lot of learning curve for him to catch up on. the longer he is away from north american ice and play the more imo the longer shot of him actually being a useful player.

Cap will likely be tight after Devils resign Bratt. Not to mention Graves is a UFA the same off-season and Siegenthaler is an RFA. Both will need raises as well. With Hamilton as the 1D for the foreseeable future, it would make sense if signing the LD may be the priority over Severson.

I can’t see Severson signing a team friendly deal after getting increasingly more frustrated after each losing season. He seems fed up with losing and I wouldn’t blame him for going elsewhere for a different opportunity and likely more money.
 
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JrFischer54

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Cap will likely be tight after Devils resign Bratt. Not to mention Graves is a UFA the same off-season and Siegenthaler is an RFA. Both will need raises as well. With Hamilton as the 1D for the foreseeable future, it would make sense if signing the LD may be the priority over Severson.

I can’t see Severson signing a team friendly deal after getting increasingly more frustrated after each losing season. He seems fed up with losing and I wouldn’t blame him for going elsewhere for a different opportunity and likely more money.

heres the thing with that the devils 100% should know his intentions BEFORE the trade deadline and if he isn't being upfront about resigning then absolutely have to move him he should command a nice return. this team missing the playoffs and then losing him for nothing in the offseason that 100% is on fitz. its one thing if we were a playoff team and then lost him but we aren't
 
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Zippy316

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heres the thing with that the devils 100% should know his intentions BEFORE the trade deadline and if he isn't being upfront about resigning then absolutely have to move him he should command a nice return. this team missing the playoffs and then losing him for nothing in the offseason that 100% is on fitz. its one thing if we were a playoff team and then lost him but we aren't

If this team isn’t in playoff contention next season by the deadline, there are far bigger concerns than Severson hitting UFA. Devils probably start blowing things up a bit and shaking up the core and Severson would almost certainly be part of that.
 

McDuffz88

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severson is going to get paid OVER market value if he hits the open market. so say he does leave here and that overpayment happens everyone on here will be like "no way would i ever pay that for severson thats insane" point is not to let him hit the open market where he will get that big contract. like him or not the devils do need him in the lineup because you can't be relying on hughes or muk or bahl to step in when they haven't proven they can do that. pay him now i say
How do we prevent Severson from hitting open market? Its not possible. Its fantasy thinking unless you want to overpay the guy. We need him to sign a hometown discount to keep him & that isn't gonna happen. Lets just be realistic here. Severson has been stuck on a losing team his entire career. This is his chance for his big pay day. He has never tested the open market. Not only can he get paid alot more on open market but the guy can choose to go to a winning team. Like I said its fantasy that he won't test FA without an overpay.
 

Buck Dancer

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I have no idea what you are talking about. If you think Severson will make any decision based on the 2017-18 season, I don't know what to tell you. This is the best I can do at interpreting what this means based on what I said.

Taylor Hall did not grow up in Edmonton. He grew up in Calgary and moved to the Toronto suburbs for junior hockey.

Lol sure, Nico and Mercer are just stagnating. Sensible take. Also loving watching Bastian stagnate on PP1.

I'm not sure I want to give Severson that kind of deal but you can do a whole lot worse with RHD and the market for them is weirdly stagnant. The thing is that the Devils already have Hamilton for PP1 so they are set up to maximize the value of Severson by not letting him on to PP1. My point is that the Devils should wait with Severson, they have plenty of time. He is not such a valuable player that they cannot afford to let him walk if that's the optimal course up until that point. I do not think many teams will be beating down the doors for him.

I really don't know what's so hard to understand here. Damon Severson has played his entire career on pathetic teams, for the same organisation and we are once again going to miss the playoffs unless something major happens. As a pro athlete, having the option to handpick your team is probably the best privilege they have and he'll be able to do so in about 18 months. Why the hell would he choose to stay here when he can go anywhere he wants, based on the salary he'll ask. He can choose to go to a legit contender for peanuts or cash in like Dougie and play for a team who needs help. I'm not saying there's no chance we resign him, what I'm saying is that it would not be in our best interest to do so, knowing who we have pushing for possible jobs in the next year or two. Yes, I do realize that our best prospects do not play the same side as Severson but I also realize that not all teams have 3LHD and 3 RHD. It would be the ideal situation but wouldn't be the end of the world if it wasn't the case.

As for Nico, he's not scoring at a better pace then he was and will probably finish around the same PPG he's been posting since joining the league in 2017-18, so yeah, that's what I call stagnating. Mercer isn't stagnating or declining because it's his 1st year, didn't think I had to explain this. Nathan Bastian was almost run out of town by 90% of this board last year, including yourself if I remember correctly, and I couldn't be happier about the success he's having this year. With his play so far, it'll maybe wake up the "anti grrrrrrit" committee that players like him are an important part of a winning formula and the absence of Wood is more detrimental then some might think.

P.S. I'm aware that Hall was born and raised in Calgary but he spent the first 6 years of his professional life, starting from the age of 18, in Edmonton... wasn't talking about where he took his first baby steps as a toddler.
 

ChicksDigTheTrap

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You don't think the first part of Bratt's next negotiation will be his agent saying Jack and Nico got this before they proved anything now give my client his after he did?
No because Jesper Bratt's agent is not the GM of the Devils. If I was the GM and an agent of an RFA with arb rights said that to me I would say see you at the arbitration hearing. I will run my team the way I see fit. They negotiate on comparable players at the same position with the same production.
 

Buck Dancer

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No because Jesper Bratt's agent is not the GM of the Devils. If I was the GM and an agent of an RFA with arb rights said that to me I would say see you at the arbitration hearing. I will run my team the way I see fit. They negotiate on comparable players at the same position with the same production.

So being the teams best point producer has less of an impact then the position he plays compared to another player on the same team? I can guarantee you that Bratt's agent will utilize both the Jack and Nico deal as a comparable. It'll be up to Fitz to see if he can make it work and try to offer Jesper Bratt a fair deal but Bratt's agent will most certainly compare current contracts to the one he wants for his client.
 

Smitty426

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As a pro athlete, having the option to handpick your team is probably the best privilege they have and he'll be able to do so in about 18 months. Why the hell would he choose to stay here when he can go anywhere he wants, based on the salary he'll ask. He can choose to go to a legit contender for peanuts or cash in like Dougie and play for a team who needs help.
Scotty Gomez says to think that over before you do so!
I would argue so does Parise, but I don't care what he thinks (and yes I know its different with his dad and all)
 

Guadana

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So being the teams best point producer has less of an impact then the position he plays compared to another player on the same team? I can guarantee you that Bratt's agent will utilize both the Jack and Nico deal as a comparable. It'll be up to Fitz to see if he can make it work and try to offer Jesper Bratt a fair deal but Bratt's agent will most certainly compare current contracts to the one he wants for his client.
In general, the opponents have a rather funny position. And what is there in principle to focus on in the discussion, if not on the contracts of other players, including teammates?
 

Triumph

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I really don't know what's so hard to understand here. Damon Severson has played his entire career on pathetic teams, for the same organisation and we are once again going to miss the playoffs unless something major happens. As a pro athlete, having the option to handpick your team is probably the best privilege they have and he'll be able to do so in about 18 months.

Like I explained earlier, some players who go through lots of losing and who can maybe see a light at the end of the tunnel want to stick around for that light. Taylor Hall appeared to be one of those for the Oilers, he was bummed he was traded to a worse team.

Why the hell would he choose to stay here when he can go anywhere he wants, based on the salary he'll ask. He can choose to go to a legit contender for peanuts or cash in like Dougie and play for a team who needs help.

It's hilarious that you cite Dougie as a player who cashed in - do you think Dougie Hamilton had more than 5 offers for his services? Why do you think that is? Why do you think Hamilton couldn't 'go anywhere he wants?

I'm not saying there's no chance we resign him, what I'm saying is that it would not be in our best interest to do so, knowing who we have pushing for possible jobs in the next year or two. Yes, I do realize that our best prospects do not play the same side as Severson but I also realize that not all teams have 3LHD and 3 RHD. It would be the ideal situation but wouldn't be the end of the world if it wasn't the case.

This is part of why it makes sense to wait a year - to see where those prospects are at. Luke Hughes probably moves over to the left side at Michigan when Power leaves. There are some lefties who can play the right side, but we see less and less of it around the league.

As for Nico, he's not scoring at a better pace then he was and will probably finish around the same PPG he's been posting since joining the league in 2017-18, so yeah, that's what I call stagnating.

You're right, playing with an MVP Taylor Hall, Jesper Bratt, and Kyle Palmieri as your 3 most common linemates gives you the same point-generating ability as playing with Pavel Zacha, Tomas Tatar, and sure, Jesper Bratt in third. So you've got an MVP, a 3rd liner, and a 1st liner in 2017-18 and then two middle-sixers and a 1st liner in the other case.

Mercer isn't stagnating or declining because it's his 1st year, didn't think I had to explain this. Nathan Bastian was almost run out of town by 90% of this board last year, including yourself if I remember correctly

What the hell are you talking about, everybody freaked out that Bastian was going to be exposed to expansion and wanted to make side deals with Seattle to keep him. You're not very good at reading this board.

I couldn't be happier about the success he's having this year. With his play so far, it'll maybe wake up the "anti grrrrrrit" committee that players like him are an important part of a winning formula and the absence of Wood is more detrimental then some might think.

Wood's absence is hardly detrimental at all. I do think running the goalie helps and the Devils could use players who routinely bump the goalie, but I don't really miss Wood's inability to play within a system or use his teammates.

P.S. I'm aware that Hall was born and raised in Calgary but he spent the first 6 years of his professional life, starting from the age of 18, in Edmonton... wasn't talking about where he took his first baby steps as a toddler.

When someone refers to a place that somebody 'grew up', it means somewhere they spent time between the ages of 0 and 18. This is especially true of something like professional ultra-high-level hockey where these things are sharply delineated by the entry draft. Jack Hughes did not grow up in New Jersey.
 
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Buck Dancer

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Scotty Gomez says to think that over before you do so!
I would argue so does Parise, but I don't care what he thinks (and yes I know its different with his dad and all)

Scott Gomez got paid and I don't think he regrets one second that he was getting big checks with his name on it from the Rangers and the Habs... are those decisions, in retrospect, the right one's? Probably not, but getting paid kind of erases all of that, wouldn't you say and it's not as if we went to win multiple cups during that same timeline.
 

ChicksDigTheTrap

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So being the teams best point producer has less of an impact then the position he plays compared to another player on the same team? I can guarantee you that Bratt's agent will utilize both the Jack and Nico deal as a comparable. It'll be up to Fitz to see if he can make it work and try to offer Jesper Bratt a fair deal but Bratt's agent will most certainly compare current contracts to the one he wants for his client.
100% yes.
 

ChicksDigTheTrap

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In general, the opponents have a rather funny position. And what is there in principle to focus on in the discussion, if not on the contracts of other players, including teammates?
Contracts are negotiated based on comparables to players that play the same position that produce the same. Nothing funny about it,
 

Buck Dancer

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Like I explained earlier, some players who go through lots of losing and who can maybe see a light at the end of the tunnel want to stick around for that light. Taylor Hall appeared to be one of those for the Oilers, he was bummed he was traded to a worse team.



It's hilarious that you cite Dougie as a player who cashed in - do you think Dougie Hamilton had more than 5 offers for his services? Why do you think that is? Why do you think Hamilton couldn't 'go anywhere he wants?



This is part of why it makes sense to wait a year - to see where those prospects are at. Luke Hughes probably moves over to the left side at Michigan when Power leaves. There are some lefties who can play the right side, but we see less and less of it around the league.



You're right, playing with an MVP Taylor Hall, Jesper Bratt, and Kyle Palmieri as your 3 most common linemates gives you the same point-generating ability as playing with Pavel Zacha, Tomas Tatar, and sure, Jesper Bratt in third. So you've got an MVP, a 3rd liner, and a 1st liner in 2017-18 and then two middle-sixers and a 1st liner in the other case.



What the hell are you talking about, everybody freaked out that Bastian was going to be exposed to expansion and wanted to make side deals with Seattle to keep him. You're not very good at reading this board.



Wood's absence is hardly detrimental at all. I do think running the goalie helps and the Devils could use players who routinely bump the goalie, but I don't really miss Wood's inability to play within a system or use his teammates.



When someone refers to a place that somebody 'grew up', it means somewhere they spent time between the ages of 0 and 18. This is especially true of something like professional ultra-high-level hockey where these things are sharply delineated by the entry draft. Jack Hughes did not grow up in New Jersey.

Hischier isn't progressing, point wise, because of excuses x, y and z when Jesper Bratt is when playing up and down our lineup. I love Hischier's all around game but let's stop coming up with excuses when it comes to his point totals. He was playing with Bratt and Zacha and didn't do much with those guys, yet when Bratt went on the Mercer and Hughes line, those lines were booming. Please don't try and act that I'm knocking Hischier's overall play, I'm just stating that his point total is stagnating and saying he's not is wrong.

As for Hamilton, he didn't get a bunch of offers at 9M$ per, I can guarantee you that, so yes... he took the bag and that's just fine by me since he's on our team. I don't even think he had multiple offers at what we ended up paying the guy. I honestly believe we were the only team in the running and outbid ourself but again, that's just fine by me.

In regards to Wood, he is missed. You might think otherwise but he was the only option to face the opposition and actually drop the mits when the time was needed. Maybe Nico would've taken less shots to the face/rips after whistles if he was around, maybe Johnsson wouldn't of been rag dolled and thrown to the ice as often, etc, etc, etc. We are getting bullied and pushed around like no other team in the league and that has a direct impact on the game, whether you think so or not. Hockey is a hard and physical sport and intimidation is still a big part of how the game is played, so acting as it's not is flat at wrong.
 

Buck Dancer

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100% yes.

I don't know if this is a serious answer, or not.

So who will Fitz compare his production to, Andreas Johnsson? If that's the case, Bratt's agent will either laugh in his face and tell his client that our GM is on crazy pills, to go straight to arbitration and GTFO there ASAP.

Bratt's agent will pull out all the same stats people pull out here in regards to his production at even strenght, around the league, and all the other stuff that shows he's a top line point producer and righfully so, because he has to convince Fitz that he has a gem on his hands, not that he's a little better then Andreas Johnsson and Pavel Zacha.
 
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My3Sons

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If this team isn’t in playoff contention next season by the deadline, there are far bigger concerns than Severson hitting UFA. Devils probably start blowing things up a bit and shaking up the core and Severson would almost certainly be part of that.

Right now the core would seem to be Dr. Evil, Hughes, Hischier, and maybe Bratt depending upon how he finishes the season. I doubt they blow that up. Mercer is too young for a team to consider a core player but I'm sure they expect him to be a core player long term and won't move him either absent some sort of massive overpay. Pretty much every other player is a complementary player and can be moved if the team likes what they are getting back.
 

Triumph

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Hischier isn't progressing, point wise, because of excuses x, y and z when Jesper Bratt is when playing up and down our lineup.

Jesper Bratt is one of the best forwards in the league at generating offense. He's also 6 months older than Nico Hischier and there were a lot of people on this board who claimed that Bratt's career high in points was X and that he just wasn't that good and that Zacha was better.

I love Hischier's all around game but let's stop coming up with excuses when it comes to his point totals.

Hischier is carrying his own line. He is now the best player on it, by far. The only time that wasn't true is when Bratt was on his line but he's only played around 30% of his ice time with Bratt. And yes, that line also outscored the opposition, but Bratt should be on a different line because Nico can carry a line just fine on his own.

He was playing with Bratt and Zacha and didn't do much with those guys, yet when Bratt went on the Mercer and Hughes line, those lines were booming. Please don't try and act that I'm knocking Hischier's overall play, I'm just stating that his point total is stagnating and saying he's not is wrong.

It's wrong. It's silly not to consider the context which the points in his rookie season were scored, playing by far the most ice time with the MVP of the league.

As for Hamilton, he didn't get a bunch of offers at 9M$ per, I can guarantee you that, so yes... he took the bag and that's just fine by me since he's on our team. I don't even think he had multiple offers at what we ended up paying the guy. I honestly believe we were the only team in the running and outbid ourself but again, that's just fine by me.

How many offers do you think he would have at $7M per?

In regards to Wood, he is missed. You might think otherwise but he was the only option to face the opposition and actually drop the mits when the time was needed. Maybe Nico would've taken less shots to the face/rips after whistles if he was around, maybe Johnsson wouldn't of been rag dolled and thrown to the ice as often, etc, etc, etc. We are getting bullied and pushed around like no other team in the league and that has a direct impact on the game, whether you think so or not. Hockey is a hard and physical sport and intimidation is still a big part of how the game is played, so acting as it's not is flat at wrong.

Wood is barely missed, he's had 2 fights in the last 2 seasons he played, you're just not paying attention and spouting off a bunch of stuff - he's not the physical player he was when he came into the league, which is fine. Again, the goalie running is missed, and yes he will scrum around the goalie and get in people's faces, but his fighting days are basically over.
 
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My3Sons

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This season is the best PPG rate of Hischer 's career, and he has also been pretty damn exceptional in the non-boxcar numbers as well.

He was meh early but looks much different to me as the season has gone on. In his last 15 games Hischier is playing at a roughly 64 point pace if my math is correct. Hopefully he keeps that up and maybe even scores a bit more.
 
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