Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VIII

[LeedsMonster]

Id like Granlund but doesn't really fit with Fitz plan of sticking with players aged similar to the core. Id rather sign Duclair for one year. If he works out , then resign him.
That is if the Devils miss out on someone like Cernak or Sergachev or Dunn where we try to take advantage of other teams cap troubles to get a very good player that is young and under team control .

Question - If a team makes an offer sheet for a player, is the team allowed to contact / negotiate / a salary figure and term to present to the player ? Or is that tampering ? Its a blind offer and no chance to talk to the player at all before presenting the offer sheet?

So I see people keep mentioning Sergachev. If he is somehow the one TB move on from, what would we have to give up? I'm also guessing it would necessitate taking Johnson back as well.

 

[AfroThunder396]

There are so many UFA options still available. If Fitz wanted to sign them he would have signed them. I have to think he's looking at another trade and will only circle back to UFA if he can't find a deal that works.

Obviously D is the long term project, but I think adding Murray and Kulikov is enough to stop the bleeding. Obviously if you can get a top guy then you get him and everyone else gets pushed down. But based on Fitz's comments I think the plan is to go with Murray-Severson Butcher-Subban Kulikov-Carrick as the starting six knowing that the door is open for a kid to come in and take a spot. But I don't think any kid is being pencilled in on D at this point. I don't think you can force a trade for a defenseman, it's more of a wait and see game.

At forward, I definitely think there will be another body brought in. Right now for roster locks we have Hischier, Palmieri, Goose, Hughes, Johnsson, Zacha, Zajac, and Wood. That's 8 spots. I *really* doubt we start the season with four kids up front. I think Boqvist, Kuokkanen, Merkley, and McLeod all have the inside track for various reasons. But I'll be shocked if we don't bring in at least one more forward.

 

[Zippy316]

There are so many UFA options still available. If Fitz wanted to sign them he would have signed them. I have to think he's looking at another trade and will only circle back to UFA if he can't find a deal that works.

Obviously D is the long term project, but I think adding Murray and Kulikov is enough to stop the bleeding. Obviously if you can get a top guy then you get him and everyone else gets pushed down. But based on Fitz's comments I think the plan is to go with Murray-Severson Butcher-Subban Kulikov-Carrick as the starting six knowing that the door is open for a kid to come in and take a spot. But I don't think any kid is being pencilled in on D at this point. I don't think you can force a trade for a defenseman, it's more of a wait and see game.

At forward, I definitely think there will be another body brought in. Right now for roster locks we have Hischier, Palmieri, Goose, Hughes, Johnsson, Zacha, Zajac, and Wood. That's 8 spots. I *really* doubt we start the season with four kids up front. I think Boqvist, Kuokkanen, Merkley, and McLeod all have the inside track for various reasons. But I'll be shocked if we don't bring in at least one more forward.

This is my thought as well.

There’s still room for one more veteran option up front that can take over some of the PK/defensive role if need be. Maybe it’s Granlund whose capable of playing up the lineup, but more likely it’s an older guy like Trevor Lewis who will play more of a fourth line & PK specialist role.

 

[LeedsMonster]

I'd love Granlund on a 2yr deal. That way Zacha can move to the wing and we dont have to rush Foote or Holtz if they're not ready.

Zacha- Hischier- Bratt
Johnsson- Hughes- Palmieri
Koukkanen- Granlund- Gusev
Wood- Zajac- Bastian/ Merkley/ McLeod

We would be able to roll 3 pretty talented lines, and Gusev could also get big PP minutes. I also think playing Zacha with Hischier and Bratt could really help "unlock" him. Hopefully being another year removed from concussion and playing with skilled teammates under a legit NHL coach will help him reach his potential.

 

[Blackjack]

Little blurb from Masisak's latest in the Athletic.

"One notable theme here — short contracts. Kevin Labanc’s four-year deal with the Sharks was surprising given what else was happening. It was also for more money than most had expected because Labanc didn’t have a great season in 2019-20; he previously had played very well in 2018-19 and signed a one-year, $1 million contract to help the Sharks’ cap situation and bet on himself for a bigger deal in the future."

hmm
Hmmmm
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Projecting the contracts for Devils' key free agents in new economic reality

It's only cap circumvention if the Devils do it.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

It is odd that almost everyone believes Lebanc had a handshake agreement with Wilson and it doesn't seem to be a story. I guess they can't prove it. When Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak all sign suspiciously low one year deals then people might start to care.

 

[NJDevs26]

It is odd that almost everyone believes Lebanc had a handshake agreement with Wilson and it doesn't seem to be a story. I guess they can't prove it. When Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak all sign suspiciously low one year deals then people might start to care.

If any of them sign one year deals people will just think it's revenue/virus related.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

How is it circumventing the cap to ‘promise’ future money?

 

[Triumph]

It is odd that almost everyone believes Lebanc had a handshake agreement with Wilson and it doesn't seem to be a story. I guess they can't prove it. When Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak all sign suspiciously low one year deals then people might start to care.

The thing about handshake agreements is that either side can always reneg on that agreement. They're not bound by anything. Labanc could've blown out his knee and his career could've been over. Likewise he could've had a monster year and could've gone to arbitration.

Handshake retirement agreements are far more dangerous I think.

 

[Blackjack]

How is it circumventing the cap to ‘promise’ future money?

You are not allowed to make promises outside the contract itself. Otherwise teams could just sign a player for league minimum and promise to hire their wife to a do-nothing job for millions of dollars. It's one of the most egregious forms of circumvention.

The thing about handshake agreements is that either side can always reneg on that agreement. They're not bound by anything. Labanc could've blown out his knee and his career could've been over. Likewise he could've had a monster year and could've gone to arbitration.

Handshake retirement agreements are far more dangerous I think.

Not really, player agents generally have working relationships with the teams, and can establish enough trust to make something like this work.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

You are not allowed to make promises outside the contract itself. Otherwise teams could just sign a player for league minimum and promise to hire their wife to a do-nothing job for millions of dollars. It's one of the most egregious forms of circumvention.



Not really, player agents generally have working relationships with the teams, and can establish enough trust to make something like this work.

But they are only promising money in a future contract through the NHL. We aren't talking exchanging oil stock for hockey play.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

But they are only promising money in a future contract through the NHL. We aren't talking exchanging oil stock for hockey play.

bro its still illegal. If you get caught, that is.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

bro its still illegal. If you get caught, that is.

I mean I guess it is, I dont know - thats why I was asking

I find it odd that its looked down on but it probably promotes better business practices in the long run so I support it

 

[njdevils1982]

'dont break any laws that you know you cant get away with'

 

[TrufleShufle]

I mean I guess it is, I dont know - thats why I was asking

I find it odd that its looked down on but it probably promotes better business practices in the long run so I support it

To see why any law is a law, just take it to the extreme. Take the original Kovy contract. If the rules were as clear as they are now with cap circumvention, they could just "promise" all those years at all those cap hits making the AAV whatever they wanted every year. First two years they know they are clear cap wise so over pay him, making him agree to sign for less in the following few years and next with the promise of paying him well past where he knows he can just decide to stop playing on his own, instead of worrying about a contract. All made up of "verbal agreements."

Obviously this is insane, and could go bad for a number of reasons and there is reasons why either party could have problem, but teams could start hammering out insane deals like this in all "promises."

It's comparing jay walking in a town to across a highway, but still.

If people started abusing it more and more like the AAV crisis with Kovy, they would probably write it a lot more clear and be more strict.

 

[FinnishDevil]

I'd love Granlund on a 2yr deal. That way Zacha can move to the wing and we dont have to rush Foote or Holtz if they're not ready.

Zacha- Hischier- Bratt
Johnsson- Hughes- Palmieri
Koukkanen- Granlund- Gusev
Wood- Zajac- Bastian/ Merkley/ McLeod

We would be able to roll 3 pretty talented lines, and Gusev could also get big PP minutes. I also think playing Zacha with Hischier and Bratt could really help "unlock" him. Hopefully being another year removed from concussion and playing with skilled teammates under a legit NHL coach will help him reach his potential.

Granlund is not a center at the NHL level. He can play center, but he shouldnt.

 

[tailfins]

I don’t see Fitz signing any more players. He’s clear that this year is still a building year. The question for him is whether he can find a way to add a significant piece for the future, not how to improve the team this year.

He needs to keep his powder dry so that he can pounce if the opportunity arises. Whether that is Dunn, Cernak, Bean, or someone else. I think he’ll look to take advantage of things that come up as we get closer to / in season.

 

[JimEIV]

Why are the New Jersey Devils sending me emails to vote? A little weird and a lot off putting.

Is this "team discussion"? I don't know?

Shouldn't be...But they sort of made it that way.

 

[Blackjack]

Just the way it is now. Ignore it. Telling people to vote is like coming out against child trafficking or hate crimes. It's a risk-less (and therefore meaningless) way of seeming to be civic minded.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

I'd like a Palms/Gusev/Bratt/Blackwood signing right about now to get myself away from the next 24-72 hours.

 

[TBF1972]

There are so many UFA options still available. If Fitz wanted to sign them he would have signed them. I have to think he's looking at another trade and will only circle back to UFA if he can't find a deal that works.

Obviously D is the long term project, but I think adding Murray and Kulikov is enough to stop the bleeding. Obviously if you can get a top guy then you get him and everyone else gets pushed down. But based on Fitz's comments I think the plan is to go with Murray-Severson Butcher-Subban Kulikov-Carrick as the starting six knowing that the door is open for a kid to come in and take a spot. But I don't think any kid is being pencilled in on D at this point. I don't think you can force a trade for a defenseman, it's more of a wait and see game.

At forward, I definitely think there will be another body brought in. Right now for roster locks we have Hischier, Palmieri, Goose, Hughes, Johnsson, Zacha, Zajac, and Wood. That's 8 spots. I *really* doubt we start the season with four kids up front. I think Boqvist, Kuokkanen, Merkley, and McLeod all have the inside track for various reasons. But I'll be shocked if we don't bring in at least one more forward.

if the team (owner, manager and coaches) agrees, that this is another development year, i agree. but you also have to accept the bleeding of some usual growing pains, if you fill the gaps in the nhl lineup with unproven prospects.
if the plan is to be competitive, i disagree here, as it assumes, that both murray and kulikov will be healthy enough to play large part of the season. getting 30 games with both murray and kulikov healthy is probably already on the high side. therefore the team would need another proven nhl d (, who doesn't need sheltering and can play pk) to withstand a condensed schedule. hutton as a lhd or rutta on the right side would be ufa options.

 

[TBF1972]

It is odd that almost everyone believes Lebanc had a handshake agreement with Wilson and it doesn't seem to be a story. I guess they can't prove it. When Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak all sign suspiciously low one year deals then people might start to care.

the lightning need those super cheap contracts to run two years. next off-season there are only cheap contracts running out, which have to be replaced with other cheap contracts. there won't be a lot of cap savings.

 

[AfroThunder396]

if the team (owner, manager and coaches) agrees, that this is another development year, i agree. but you also have to accept the bleeding of some usual growing pains, if you fill the gaps in the nhl lineup with unproven prospects.
if the plan is to be competitive, i disagree here, as it assumes, that both murray and kulikov will be healthy enough to play large part of the season. getting 30 games with both murray and kulikov healthy is probably already on the high side. therefore the team would need another proven nhl d (, who doesn't need sheltering and can play pk) to withstand a condensed schedule. hutton as a lhd or rutta on the right side would be ufa options.

If Kulikov gets injured and a kid comes into replace him, he could just straight up lose his roster spot and sit on the bench the rest of the season. I'm not super worried about him, he's a bottom pairing guy and I'll be a little surprised if he's not passed on the depth chart by the end of the season.

Obviously Murray is expected to be a more important player, but again it does create opportunity for some younger players to come in and start playing some important games. If our playoff hopes live and die on one player being healthy can you really say we're a contending team?

 

[None Shall Pass]

Why are the New Jersey Devils sending me emails to vote? A little weird and a lot off putting.

Is this "team discussion"? I don't know?

Shouldn't be...But they sort of made it that way.

On top of the low-hanging fruit of good publicity, the Rock is also a voting site this year. Synergy brah

 

[TBF1972]

If Kulikov gets injured and a kid comes into replace him, he could just straight up lose his roster spot and sit on the bench the rest of the season. I'm not super worried about him, he's a bottom pairing guy and I'll be a little surprised if he's not passed on the depth chart by the end of the season.

Obviously Murray is expected to be a more important player, but again it does create opportunity for some younger players to come in and start playing some important games. If our playoff hopes live and die on one player being healthy can you really say we're a contending team?

i don't disagree, but playing smith, bahl, okhotyuk or white in a top 4 role might not end up in to many wins.