Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) - Offseason part IX

[NJDevs26]

As a staunch non-believer of Hynes, I really think replacing Hynes with Stevens could be like replacing Hynes with another Hynes.

I feel like with Stevens, we would see an uptick in the usage of ''Dat physicality tho'' type defensemen. Dalton Prout screams that, out of guys on the projected roster. I'm not sure who the new Helgeson is in the AHL, since the real Helgeson was let go and THANK GOD of it! Even when Stevens was here in the past. It seemed when he left and we started that 14-15 season with DeBoer and no Stevens, Salvador's minutes dropped by 2 per game! He was always playing over 20 minutes when Stevens was running the D. We also seemed to have at least one of Helgeson or Fraser up at all times, upon Stevens return. If I remember correctly, Helgeson was sent back shortly after Stevens returned and Mark Fraser was called up and played over 30 games.

I'm not sure if Stevens is really a bad assistant, but I also don't think he's a great one either. I might not hate the idea if we experimented with replacing Nasreddine with him, if he's still out of coaching work when we replace Nasreddine. I also wouldn't be too psyched about it. I'd rather have him as a special assignment coach or like a Ryane Clowe type assistant, where he doesn't really control the D pairings and how many minutes they receive.

The problem with bringing back Stevens as an assistant (besides the obvious one of imposing an assistant on the HC) is you're both putting a public bullseye on the head coach, and pretty much locking yourself in to him being the next HC if Hynes fails. It's hard to justify PR-wise passing Stevens over for pretty much whoever Shero would bring in - Kowalsky, one of the other assistants, etc - if there's a coaching change and I'm not really sure I want him to be the HC. It's kind of why I'm fine with Marty not working in the front office, eventually PR's going to demand he get a shot at being a GM here if he stayed in management long enough.

 

[MadDevil]

I think Stevens is one of those coaches that makes a good assistant, where he can work more closely with defensemen than if he was the head coach. Plus it doesn't seem like the former franchise legend player turned head coach thing ever really works out.

 

[Bleedred]

The problem with bringing back Stevens as an assistant (besides the obvious one of imposing an assistant on the HC) is you're both putting a public bullseye on the head coach, and pretty much locking yourself in to him being the next HC if Hynes fails. It's hard to justify PR-wise passing Stevens over for pretty much whoever Shero would bring in - Kowalsky, one of the other assistants, etc - if there's a coaching change and I'm not really sure I want him to be the HC. It's kind of why I'm fine with Marty not working in the front office, eventually PR's going to demand he get a shot at being a GM here if he stayed in management long enough.

Honestly, this is probably the best route to go. Just not bringing him onto the coaching staff at all. I was just trying to rationalize and be somewhat sympathetic about him being an assistant here.

Aside from the whole former franchise legend factor, there are also many great players who absolutely flopped as head coaches and even assistants. Wayne Gretzky and Patrick Roy are both waving at this one. Two of the best players at their position, yet they're head coaching tenures were a joke. Bryan Trottier as well, although it was a really short tenure and sample size for him.

For every Jacques Lemaire, there's a Gretzky and Roy. Even if you wanna count Larry Robinson as legendary player turned good and successful head coach, there's still even more bad examples. Perhaps some of these guys had bad luck and poor rosters to a degree, but they also mostly just sucked as coaches at the NHL level.

 

[Made Dan]

Hi all, I'm curious to see how satisfied everyone is with the off-season. From the outside looking in I think Shero and Co did a great job, wanted to see if that was the consensus.

 

[JimEIV]

Hi all, I'm curious to see how satisfied everyone is with the off-season. From the outside looking in I think Shero and Co did a great job, wanted to see if that was the consensus.

At this stage of the game for the Devils, the more uneventful the offseasons are the better.

They need to develop their players, form a core group of decent players and go from there...UFA's are not for this team. Honestly I don't even think Johansson was necessary...Unless he he was brought in to play RW but I am not sure that is the case?

He was good add for sure but just really doesn't do all that much to meet the mission of developing our new core in my opinion. It's like you are baking the best chocolate cake that you possibly know how to and someone says hey here is some caviar...That really doesn't help you make that chocolate cake. Just my opinion.

I think the organization made a major mistake protecting Moore and leaving Merrill unprotected.

Jury is still out on Mueller...We'll see but we probably wont know for a couple years...Most likely he still is going to need development at the NHL level.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

Hi all, I'm curious to see how satisfied everyone is with the off-season. From the outside looking in I think Shero and Co did a great job, wanted to see if that was the consensus.

I'm satisfied with this off-season. The Johansson trade was very good in my opinion and should improve our team. If Shero could shore up the Devils defense more, I'd bump my rating up to very or extremely satisfied depending on what was done with the defense. But the offense overall has been revitalized with trades like Palmieri, Hall, and now Johansson since Shero got here. If we could see any comparable strengthening of our defense, that would be great.

 

[Triumph]

Hi all, I'm curious to see how satisfied everyone is with the off-season. From the outside looking in I think Shero and Co did a great job, wanted to see if that was the consensus.

He did a good job. Draft was great. Mueller trade not so good. Expansion draft, meh. Buyout of Cammalleri not wonderful but understandable. Boyle signing good, Johansson trade good.

 

[MichaelJ]

Hi all, I'm curious to see how satisfied everyone is with the off-season. From the outside looking in I think Shero and Co did a great job, wanted to see if that was the consensus.

Johansson deal made this a positive offseason.

- The expansion draft was disappointing but the Devils didn't really miss an opportunity as there weren't many.
- I don't like the Mueller deal. I'm backing Shero/Castron and hoping to be proven wrong.
- Really liked the draft
- We might see a move around camp once the team knows who is stepping up and who might be expendable.
- I'd still like to see a vet RW brought in.

 

[My3Sons]

Johansson deal made this a positive offseason.

- The expansion draft was disappointing but the Devils didn't really miss an opportunity as there weren't many.
- I don't like the Mueller deal. I'm backing Shero/Castron and hoping to be proven wrong.
- Really liked the draft
- We might see a move around camp once the team knows who is stepping up and who might be expendable.
- I'd still like to see a vet RW brought in.

The Boyle signing was also a nice low profile move. And the turnover/buyouts while a bit risky with respect to RW depth send a good message to the players and highlight the youth movement as well. I agree about Mueller but I guess the pro scouting department saw something they liked.

 

[MartyOwns]

Hi all, I'm curious to see how satisfied everyone is with the off-season. From the outside looking in I think Shero and Co did a great job, wanted to see if that was the consensus.

our defense is still the biggest problem...other than that, im pretty happy with how it turned out. i think if we make some good moves on the back end over the next year we'll be competing for a playoff spot for sure in 2018-19

 

[JrFischer54]

He did a good job. Draft was great. Mueller trade not so good. Expansion draft, meh. Buyout of Cammalleri not wonderful but understandable. Boyle signing good, Johansson trade good.

buyout was not wonderful? i'm more then happy to get rid of camm he was beyond brutal. i dont even care if we have his cap hit for longer now.

mueller trade not good? why? did you expect that 2nd/3rd round pick to pan out into something 3 years from now ? i rather have the nhl talent now with upside then a maybe

expansion draft? no one really did much of anything and seeing how mojo trade was a direct result of the expansion draft it is a win

 

[Bleedred]

The Mueller trade was a little overpayment, which I said from the beginning.

But with how the D-man market currently is, its probably the blue book value right now. The market for defensemen is inflated currently.

I maintain the trade we made last Summer helped contribute to this. Just look at what Hamonic brought back.

 

[JimEIV]

The Mueller trade was a little overpayment, which I said from the beginning.

But with how the D-man market currently is, its probably the blue book value right now. The market for defensemen is inflated currently.

I maintain the trade we made last Summer helped contribute to this. Just look at what Hamonic brought back.

I'm not sure it can be "a little over payment" He is a player or he's not...If he is player it wasn't an over payment at all. If he's not it was a terrible deal...

I don't know, there doesn't seem like much wiggle room there?

 

[Devils Dominion]

I'm not sure it can be "a little over payment" He is a player or he's not...If he is player it wasn't an over payment at all. If he's not it was a terrible deal...

I don't know, there doesn't seem like much wiggle room there?

Gut feeling its the latter, but hope I'm wrong.

 

[Bleedred]

I'm not sure it can be "a little over payment" He is a player or he's not...If he is player it wasn't an over payment at all. If he's not it was a terrible deal...

I don't know, there doesn't seem like much wiggle room there?

What I mean is that a 2nd round pick is probably a little more than you wanna give up for him ideally.

But because of the whacky markets, it might actually be the current going value. My friends younger brother bought a 2002 f250 with the 7.3 diesel, 7+ years ago. All the way back in the beginning of 2010. He paid $12000 for it and it had 98k miles on it. Now here we are 7 years later and the truck is 15 years old, it has 204k miles now, and the market value has barely depreciated on it. I notice that with many diesels the last year or two. While they never really depreciated as fast as a gasoline engine and have always been worth quite a bit more, the values of them are now at an all time high.

The values of defensemen seem to be very high right now, compared to maybe a little over a year ago. Did the Larsson for Hall trade do this? I can't honestly say it is the sole reason, but when you see Adam Larsson bringing back Taylor Hall, all the guys better than him are probably not gonna bring back a player as good as Taylor Hall, but they're probably gonna bring back more than they would have a couple years ago.

There are some examples to the contrary though. David Schlemko was just had for fifth round pick, but a young guy with some potential and a first round pick from 4 years ago is probably gonna bring back more than you would expect.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I'm very happy with this offseason.

It was foolish to think everything could be addressed st once.

That said we got a lot done.

 

[Bleedred]

Let's face it right now, if Mueller is worth a 2nd round pick, I don't think we're getting a guy like Fowler or Vatanen or Barrie, Muzzin or whatever other name was thrown around, for anything that's worth giving up. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted Zacha and a first for at least one or a couple of those guys. Hamonic brought back a first round pick and two second round picks.

I don't even think I would wanna pay just a first for some of those guys.

 

[MadDevil]

The only issue I have with the Mueller trade is I don't think it really moves the needle. He's basically just replacing Merrill, and it remains to be seen if he'll be better or worse than Merrill was. If he's better, it's a good trade. If he's not, it's kind of a pointless move. It's not like we gave up a ton for him though.

 

[MichaelJ]

I'm very happy with this offseason.

It was foolish to think everything could be addressed st once.

That said we got a lot done.

I don't think every issue was expected to be addressed in one offseason, but a lot of us were hoping to exploit two potential opportunities that just didn't pan out (exp draft and dealing a free forward asset). While they were small letdowns, I don't blame Ray and think overall we had a very good offseason.

I'm pretty bullish going forward too. Besides the young talent most are expecting to be big parts of the lineup sooner or later, our drafting has built a prospect pool deep in high potential forwards. They carry a lot of bust potential, but we won't have room for all of them and if some improve their respective stocks, the Devils could finally be in a position to make a splash trade in the next year or two without sacrificing a major roster piece like the Hall deal.

I remember Shero trying to get in on the first Saad trade. The organization just didn't have the depth to do it. The next time an opportunity like that comes around, the Devils could be in a great position to take advantage.

 

[MichaelJ]

Let's face it right now, if Mueller is worth a 2nd round pick, I don't think we're getting a guy like Fowler or Vatanen or Barrie, Muzzin or whatever other name was thrown around, for anything that's worth giving up. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted Zacha and a first for at least one or a couple of those guys. Hamonic brought back a first round pick and two second round picks.

I don't even think I would wanna pay just a first for some of those guys.

I think next offseason will be the one where Shero can really go after the defense. I know we were hoping for this summer, but our two best chances didn't work out and through no real fault of Shero's. Next year our prospect pool will be mature and we might be in a position to make a move on draft day. We continue to move in the right direction.

 

[Bleedred]

The only issue I have with the Mueller trade is I don't think it really moves the needle. He's basically just replacing Merrill, and it remains to be seen if he'll be better or worse than Merrill was. If he's better, it's a good trade. If he's not, it's kind of a pointless move. It's not like we gave up a ton for him though.

Yeah, I would have been happier if we replaced Lovejoy with him and Vegas took him off our hands instead. Not that Merrill is anything special, but at least he wouldn't be playing 20+ minutes next year, like frickin Lovejoy probably will be.

 

[Devilswede]

Shero is doing the best be can. It hasn't been a great offseason, primarily because the defense is not improved at all. But there's still time to do things.

Had we gotten Shattenkirk it would been different. Shero tried, but wasn't successful. Not his fault the guy wanted to be a Ranger at any cost.

I'm not a huge fan of buyouts where players take up almost $2 million in cap space not to play for us. I guess it won't do much damage to us. But who knows where we'll be in 3-4 years.

I think Cammalleri was the one that wanted out, but Ray just couldn't find a trade partner that wanted him at that price. I would've rather seen a trade with salary retention with him having 2 years left on the contract. But oh well...

We'll see about Mueller, but I don't like the player at all. I'd rather have the draft picks that we traded for him. Mueller has shown zero progression and improvement since he was drafted. He's actually a regressed player today considering where he was drafted.

 

[JimEIV]

The only issue I have with the Mueller trade is I don't think it really moves the needle. He's basically just replacing Merrill, and it remains to be seen if he'll be better or worse than Merrill was. If he's better, it's a good trade. If he's not, it's kind of a pointless move. It's not like we gave up a ton for him though.

It's going to take some time for him to be as good as Merrill...he doesn't appear to have any offensive game by his AHL numbers and I don't think think his defensive game will be anywhere near Merrill next season.

If we get a Santini like season out of him next season I would call it a success.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

At this point, I think the main point of the Mueller trade was to give Nico another Swiss player to hang out with and stuff. Mueller is company for Nico, added more for his off-ice benefits than his on-ice ones.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

At this point, I think the main point of the Mueller trade was to give Nico another Swiss player to hang out with and stuff. Mueller is company for Nico, added more for his off-ice benefits than his on-ice ones.

If you actually truly believe this, I don't know what to tell you

the MAIN reason for the Mueller trade is because he is a young promising LHD that Shero and Castron think can blossom here. and we need LHD. period, end of story.