Prospect Info: Development camp & Roster released

[goonx]

Rielly can show off his skills at the training camp. If RC wants him, then keep him with the big club for the first 5-10 games and then send him back.

whether he is NHL ready or not, us fans will not know because we've never met the guy. The coaches and management almost know every detail of his kid's life and will know what's best for him.

Fans wanted gardiner up... and he sat in the press box instead of playing 30 mins per game with the marlies. Sure, he came back in the playoffs but he could have easily sat the whole time if kostka and fraser didn't get injuries.

 

[DD03]

I see that and I'll raise you one "how many 20 year old defensemen play top 4 minutes in the NHL?"

I'm the biggest Rielly fan you'll find. Given what's in front of me, I'm not sure he's ready to take on that role in the big leagues. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Maybe I'm wrong and he blows it out of the water. Nothing would make me happier.

Drafted in the top 10? Lots.

 

[Beleafer4]

Rielly wasnt ready last year, but things can change in an offseason. It all depends on the focus. It is a difficult situation. On the one hand I dont want him to play for a **** team in MJ and develop bad habits and but on the other hand I want him to play. He probably wouldnt play much with all our other pmd

Schenn is a top 4 D on a contender (maybe even a #3), that being said I would still take gardiner over him. And this isnt me being a homer.

 

[Dwight K Schrute]

Schenn also wouldn't have passed the puck to Bergeron

Can't believe Schenn is even being mentioned in the same sentence as Gardiner. Gardiner's absolute best case potential is Brian Leetch. Schenn's is probably Andrew Ference.

 

[ConnorTO]

where can i watch

 

[Dwight K Schrute]

Schenn also wouldn't have passed the puck to Bergeron

That was Franson BTW. Another player way better than Schenn.

 

[goonx]

That was Franson BTW. Another player way better than Schenn.

it was gards... the OT goal in GM7

Drafted in the top 10? Lots.

RC has a history of letting young guys play good minutes in the NHL. Fowler for example. The idea here is not penciling in Rielly but make him impress, blow the socks off and earn the spot.

So I have no problem trusting RC judgement on whether rielly should be sent back or play with the leafs. If he does get sent back to the juniors, i would see two years of development for him: 1 in the juniors, then 2014-2015 marlies/1st call up for the leafs

 

[Renegade]

Rielly would have made the team last season. He was definitely good enough. RC just thought he needed more time to develop. Leafs brass didn't want to ruin him like they did with Schenn.

May need another year before joining the bigs.

 

[goonx]

Mike Kunzle is a player that was sent to the camp as part of the partnership with Zurich, Switzerland (not Zug as Jim Hughes said.. guess he was confused since they drafted a guy from Zug...). I don't think that the primary goal for him is to establish himself with the Leafs, but rather his personal development for the Swiss team.

ah, so we're not interested in signing him unless he's stands out

 

[Madic]

What? If he comes out guns blazing, then he stays. Letang, Karlsson, Green etc all made the big show and thrived

Bad comparisons, mostly. Whatever else the argument has for it (there are pros and cons both ways), Letang played two seasons after his draft, Green played over 220 games in the WHL before making the jump, and Karlsson is one of the most talented defenders in years...and had a rough defensive transition to the NHL. Rielly hasn't played many games in the dub, which is the main concern, not simply that he's physically ready and above the rest of his team in talent.

 

[BigWilly]

Does anyone have an idea how early one would need to arrive at the arena to guarantee a spot?

 

[BIitz]

I see that and I'll raise you one "how many 20 year old defensemen play top 4 minutes in the NHL?"

I'm the biggest Rielly fan you'll find. Given what's in front of me, I'm not sure he's ready to take on that role in the big leagues. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Maybe I'm wrong and he blows it out of the water. Nothing would make me happier.

Okay I'll find you 10 with relative ease since 06-13. I defined top 4 as 20 or more minutes.

Doughty 09-10: 25 MPG
Myers 09-10: 23 MPG
Fowler 11-12: 23 MPG
OEL 11-12: 22 MPG
Leddy 11-12: 22 MPG
Vlasic 06-07: 22 MPG
Bogosian 09-10: 21 MPG
Karlsson 10-11: 23 MPG
Hedman 09-10: 20 MPG
Faulk 11-12: 23 MPG

There's also a fair amount more (maybe 10+) who have played more than 20.

Anyways, I don't see the point of that. Your whole opinion was based on the fact that because he didn't tear up the AHL, he isn't ready for the NHL. I'd love for you to show me 10 players that did better in the AHL at his age.

 

[My Sweet Shadow]

I see that and I'll raise you one "how many 20 year old defensemen play top 4 minutes in the NHL?"

I'm the biggest Rielly fan you'll find. Given what's in front of me, I'm not sure he's ready to take on that role in the big leagues. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Maybe I'm wrong and he blows it out of the water. Nothing would make me happier.

Just quickly going down the list:

12/13: Brodin, Gudbranson, Larsson, Hamilton

11/12: Fowler, Faulk, Ekman-Larsson, Leddy, Larsson, Cowen

10/11: Karlsson, Carlson, Myers, Bogosian, Schenn Fowler, Pieterangelo, Hamonic, Hedman, Kulikov, Del Zotto

09/10: Doughty, Myers, Bogosian, Hedman, Karlsson, Subban, Del Zotto, Kulikov

So yeah, asides from the '08 draft class, it's not particularly common. He's probably got one of the best shots along with Murray, Reinhart, Trouba, and Jones.

 

[BIitz]

Can't believe Schenn is even being mentioned in the same sentence as Gardiner. Gardiner's absolute best case potential is Brian Leetch. Schenn's is probably Andrew Ference.

Don't even know where to start here.

That was Franson BTW. Another player way better than Schenn.

Actually Gardiner knocked the puck off of Fransons stick, right to Bergeron. Watch it again if you like.

 

[Kurisu]

Morgan Reilly may not make the team just because of his cap hit.

 

[wulfio*]

If Schenn is a bottom pairing on a contender then I'd have to say the same with Gardiner. Not trying to start anything here, but they offer virtually the same amount of pro's and con's to their respective teams. I don't even understand the term "On a contender". Johnny Boychuk is a 2nd pairing on a contender, and I'd say Luke Schenn is equal, if not a better player.

gardiner looked dominant in the playoffs. he was noticeably one of the best players on the ice while he was on it. I'm sorry, but despite any of schenns pro's(not many imo), he is nowhere close to being on the same level as what gardiner can offer.

 

[My Sweet Shadow]

Doughty 09-10: 25 MPG
Myers 09-10: 23 MPG
Fowler 11-12: 23 MPG
OEL 11-12: 22 MPG
Leddy 11-12: 22 MPG
Vlasic 06-07: 22 MPG
Bogosian 09-10: 21 MPG
Karlsson 10-11: 23 MPG
Hedman 09-10: 20 MPG
Faulk 11-12: 23 MPG

LA 09-10: 9th
ANA 11-12: 25th
PHX 11-12: 11th
CHI 11-12: 10th
SJ 06-07: 5th
ATL 09-10: 23rd
OTT 10-11: 26th
TB 09-10: 25th
CAR 11-12: 23rd

So on average those players played on teams who finished about 17th, with only 4 in the top 22 of the league. I'd imagine that's the general trend; better teams can afford to be patient with their prospects, while worse teams tend to rely on them more. Be it trying to invigorate the fanbase, rebuild the team through a youth movement, or simply the fact that they were a lot better than most of the other options available.

 

[BIitz]

LA 09-10: 9th
ANA 11-12: 25th
PHX 11-12: 11th
CHI 11-12: 10th
SJ 06-07: 5th
ATL 09-10: 23rd
OTT 10-11: 26th
TB 09-10: 25th
CAR 11-12: 23rd

So on average those players played on teams who finished about 17th, with only 4 in the top 22 of the league. I'd imagine that's the general trend; better teams can afford to be patient with their prospects, while worse teams tend to rely on them more. Be it trying to invigorate the fanbase, rebuild the team through a youth movement, or simply the fact that they were a lot better than most of the other options available.

Yeah, I didn't incorporate the guys you used either, Brodin, Hamilton both made the playoffs and played top 4 at times.

If I was Carlyle, I'd just let Rielly prove that he's NHL ready. We can sit here planning out our roster all summer, but he has to go out and show he is ready. If he wants to take Frasers spot on the bottom pairing, Gardiners on the second, or Phaneuf's on the first it's entirely up to him.

Personally I think he is ready to play at this level. I don't think Carlyle is afraid to use him if he makes it either, as Fowler played 20+ minutes as a 19 and 20 year old.

 

[JTPoni23]

The scrimmages at 2:45pm tomorrow and 10am Thursday are open to the public correct?

 

[7even]

Drafted in the top 10? Lots.

Lots who played well might be an overstatement. Should've qualified that one more

It's a pretty exclusive list of people. Being a quality defenseman in the NHL at 19/20 is hard to do.

 

[7even]

Okay I'll find you 10 with relative ease since 06-13. I defined top 4 as 20 or more minutes.

Doughty 09-10: 25 MPG
Myers 09-10: 23 MPG
Fowler 11-12: 23 MPG
OEL 11-12: 22 MPG
Leddy 11-12: 22 MPG
Vlasic 06-07: 22 MPG
Bogosian 09-10: 21 MPG
Karlsson 10-11: 23 MPG
Hedman 09-10: 20 MPG
Faulk 11-12: 23 MPG

There's also a fair amount more (maybe 10+) who have played more than 20.

Anyways, I don't see the point of that. Your whole opinion was based on the fact that because he didn't tear up the AHL, he isn't ready for the NHL. I'd love for you to show me 10 players that did better in the AHL at his age.

That's still a relatively small list. I can't really show you a "10 players that did better at his age" because Rielly didn't do a whole lot re: points and I don't want to drudge through the AHL's site to dig up the more-difficult-to-quantify stuff. And no, I didn't say because he didn't tear up the AHL, he's not ready for the NHL. In fact, I stated quite clearly that I think he could play in the NHL this season. I said I'm not sure if he'd excel.

Personally, from what I saw this year, I'm not confident in saying he's better than a guy like, I dunno, Liles. Liles is around a 30pt defenseman given top 4 minutes and PP time. That's pretty solid. How many 19/20 year old defensemen put up 30 points in their first season? Not a lot. And if Rielly can't make it in a top 4 capacity, I'm not sure how much better for his development wasting away on the 3rd pairing is. Regardless, that's for management to decide. Can't wait to see his training camp.

Just quickly going down the list:

12/13: Brodin, Gudbranson, Larsson, Hamilton

11/12: Fowler, Faulk, Ekman-Larsson, Leddy, Larsson, Cowen

10/11: Karlsson, Carlson, Myers, Bogosian, Schenn Fowler, Pieterangelo, Hamonic, Hedman, Kulikov, Del Zotto

09/10: Doughty, Myers, Bogosian, Hedman, Karlsson, Subban, Del Zotto, Kulikov

So yeah, asides from the '08 draft class, it's not particularly common. He's probably got one of the best shots along with Murray, Reinhart, Trouba, and Jones.

And of those guys, a few probably shouldn't have been there. Kulikov, Hedman, Bogosian et al were up largely due to lack of better options.

 

[SteveV*]

I've noticed that anybody who dare question Biggs progress is met with howls and scowls around here, as though pure lunacy to suggest his development has been anything less than spectacular.

"Biggs’ development, for example, has been slower than the Leafs might have liked."

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2013/07/10/maple_leafs_camp_time_for_biggs_to_step_up.html

Please email this author, he is clearly way off side here as he obviously doesn't understand intangibles.

 

[ULF_55]

Lots who played well might be an overstatement. Should've qualified that one more

It's a pretty exclusive list of people. Being a quality defenseman in the NHL at 19/20 is hard to do.

Are we talking about Rielly?

Should the discussion be how long does it take for a top 5 pick defenseman to make the NHL?

Comparing 20th. or 80th. or 200th. picks to a top 5 pick doesn't target the right sample.

 

[BIitz]

I've noticed that anybody who dare question Biggs progress is met with howls and scowls around here, as though pure lunacy to suggest his development has been anything less than spectacular.

"Biggs’ development, for example, has been slower than the Leafs might have liked."

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2013/07/10/maple_leafs_camp_time_for_biggs_to_step_up.html

Please email this author, he is clearly way off side here as he obviously doesn't understand intangibles.

I'm probably his biggest defender, but I can see where doubters are coming from. He weighs 50 pounds (rough guess) over the average junior player, yet doesn't dominate physically with that size. Yes he's rough, yes he's mean, yes he's beaten a couple people up with that size. But at the same time, you want to see him use that size offensively. He wasn't great at shielding the puck, nor was he as efficient as you'd like for a guy his size to be on the cycle. He has a good shot, and a lot of his goals did come from in front. But still, He was 19 and not a PPG. That's hard for me to ignore even as a big fan.

He has an amazing package, a mean streak (although not as big of one as you'd like) good hockey IQ, good team player, good defensively, nice shot. But still you'd like to see him utilize his size better.

 

[SteveV*]

I'm probably his biggest defender, but I can see where doubters are coming from. He weighs 50 pounds (rough guess) over the average junior player, yet doesn't dominate physically with that size. Yes he's rough, yes he's mean, yes he's beaten a couple people up with that size. But at the same time, you want to see him use that size offensively. He wasn't great at shielding the puck, nor was he as efficient as you'd like for a guy his size to be on the cycle. He has a good shot, and a lot of his goals did come from in front. But still, He was 19 and not a PPG. That's hard for me to ignore even as a big fan.

He has an amazing package, a mean streak (although not as big of one as you'd like) good hockey IQ, good team player, good defensively, nice shot. But still you'd like to see him utilize his size better.

He was a man amongst boys in Junior and yet he didn't dominate at all, was even less of a factor in the playoffs. I noticed our director of player development sort of challenged him yesterday, which I think is required. His development has been okay, but when you factor in his draft position, what we did to move up and get him, hard to argue anything less than "minor disappointment" to DATE. Lots of time though and he has plenty of "tools" to succeed.