Prospect Info: Development camp & Roster released

[ULF_55]

I've noticed that anybody who dare question Biggs progress is met with howls and scowls around here, as though pure lunacy to suggest his development has been anything less than spectacular.

"Biggs’ development, for example, has been slower than the Leafs might have liked."

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2013/07/10/maple_leafs_camp_time_for_biggs_to_step_up.html

Please email this author, he is clearly way off side here as he obviously doesn't understand intangibles.

The Marlies are expected to be more of a developmental squad than they were under Dallas Eakins.

It would be nice if it was treated as a development squad rather than a stepping stone to the NHL for the coach.

 

[BIitz]

He was a man amongst boys in Junior and yet he didn't dominate at all, was even less of a factor in the playoffs. I noticed our director of player development sort of challenged him yesterday, which I think is required. His development has been okay, but when you factor in his draft position, what we did to move up and get him, hard to argue anything less than "minor disappointment" to DATE. Lots of time though and he has plenty of "tools" to succeed.

Fully agree bud. He has to show he wants to be that player to use the great tool set he has. He seems like the type of guy that needs a fire lit under him, which can be a good or a bad thing.

It would be nice if it was treated as a development squad rather than a stepping stone to the NHL for the coach.

I'd like our AHL squad to be a development squad myself. But I'd prefer is players earned their spots at the same time.

 

[ULF_55]

I'd like our AHL squad to be a development squad myself. But I'd prefer is players earned their spots at the same time.

I'd prefer they have to beat out other prospects for the positions, not career AHL players who aren't part of the Leafs' future.

But then I'm a Leafs fan, not a Toronto fan.

 

[BIitz]

I'd prefer they have to beat out other prospects for the positions, not career AHL players who aren't part of the Leafs' future.

But then I'm a Leafs fan, not a Toronto fan.

I'm a Leafs fan too, but there's something to learn from a pro that you don't learn from a fellow rookie.

Setting kids up in a situation to fail is an easy way to ruin them.

 

[ErikP803]

I'm probably his biggest defender, but I can see where doubters are coming from. He weighs 50 pounds (rough guess) over the average junior player, yet doesn't dominate physically with that size. Yes he's rough, yes he's mean, yes he's beaten a couple people up with that size. But at the same time, you want to see him use that size offensively. He wasn't great at shielding the puck, nor was he as efficient as you'd like for a guy his size to be on the cycle. He has a good shot, and a lot of his goals did come from in front. But still, He was 19 and not a PPG. That's hard for me to ignore even as a big fan.

He has an amazing package, a mean streak (although not as big of one as you'd like) good hockey IQ, good team player, good defensively, nice shot. But still you'd like to see him utilize his size better.

Just out of curiosity, how many games did you watch to come to that opinion? The game I went to see (Niagara playoff game) he was a beast along the boards, and had excellent defensive positioning. Just needs to improve everywhere else in the offensive zone, as when hes not battling along the boards the only asset he has is a heavy shot, yet his agility and acceleration aren't enough for him to get it off as consistently as Id like.

 

[BIitz]

Just out of curiosity, how many games did you watch to come to that opinion? The game I went to see (Niagara playoff game) he was a beast along the boards, and had excellent defensive positioning. Just needs to improve everywhere else in the offensive zone, as when hes not battling along the boards the only asset he has is a heavy shot, yet his agility and acceleration aren't enough for him to get it off as consistently as Id like.

Don't really count the games I watch, not that it was a lot. Probably around 10?

To each their own, some have said the some things as you, I just didn't see it when I watched.

 

[ULF_55]

Setting kids up in a situation to fail is an easy way to ruin them.

I think that is an excuse used to deflect blame away from poor drafting.

We're talking AHL not NHL, and we're talking 20+ years old not 18 year olds in the NHL.

If they're busting in the AHL it is probably because they aren't good enough.

 

[BIitz]

I think that is an excuse used to deflect blame away from poor drafting.

We're talking AHL not NHL, and we're talking 20+ years old not 18 year olds in the NHL.

If they're busting in the AHL it is probably because they aren't good enough.

Really? 1-2 years isn't a huge difference.

You can't exactly put a 20 year old out there who is still growing and tell them to go against men for 20 minutes. The biggest difference between the AHL and NHL is speed of the game. There's also a big difference in speed of the game from the Juniors to the AHL.

If a player can't produce by 20 in the AHL I don't think that's busting.. especially if they are playing against veterans.

 

[ULF_55]

Really? 1-2 years isn't a huge difference.

You can't exactly put a 20 year old out there who is still growing and tell them to go against men for 20 minutes. The biggest difference between the AHL and NHL is speed of the game. There's also a big difference in speed of the game from the Juniors to the AHL.

If a player can't produce by 20 in the AHL I don't think that's busting.. especially if they are playing against veterans.

Let's keep the discussion where it started and that's that prospects should be competing with prospects for positions.

You said it could be setting them up for failure if they didn't rely on AHL veterans.

You are now introducing "bust as a 20 year old" no one else had even suggested they would be a bust as a 20 year old.

I'm saying the cream rises to the top although a coach can stifle players by using them in limited roles if it is in his own best personal interest.

I'd suggest D'Amigo being played in a shutdown role was in Eakins best interest, with a goal of making it to the NHL as a coach. D'Amigo was ~ PPG in his rookie year in the NCAA, had 28 points in 21 games in junior and Eakins uses him in a shutdown role.

Hoping Spott is a development coach.

 

[BIitz]

Let's keep the discussion where it started and that's that prospects should be competing with prospects for positions.

You said it could be setting them up for failure if they didn't rely on AHL veterans.

You are now introducing "bust as a 20 year old" no one else had even suggested they would be a bust as a 20 year old.

I'm saying the cream rises to the top although a coach can stifle players by using them in limited roles if it is in his own best personal interest.

I'd suggest D'Amigo being played in a shutdown role was in Eakins best interest, with a goal of making it to the NHL as a coach. D'Amigo was ~ PPG in his rookie year in the NCAA, had 28 points in 21 games in junior and Eakins uses him in a shutdown role.

Hoping Spott is a development coach.

To your first point you're quote just says if a 20+ year old cant produce they are busting at the AHL level.

We're talking AHL not NHL, and we're talking 20+ years old not 18 year olds in the NHL.

If they're busting in the AHL it is probably because they aren't good enough.

This is where I got the idea where you said if they can't produce in key situations you deem them as busts.

We don't have any "cream of the crop" prospects outside of Rielly though. I can't see any of them playing top line minutes in the AHL for a while.

I hope so as well.

 

[ULF_55]

To your first point you're quote just says if a 20+ year old cant produce they are busting at the AHL level.

I should have been more clear.

20 years old is (except Euro's and NCAA drop outs) is the youngest players usually in the AHL.

I think the "ruin" arguments are more applicable to 18 year olds (Schenn) in the NHL, where they're in over their heads.

At 20 the AHL is the league they learn in unless they are the bluechippers that go straight to the NHL.

If a player busts in the AHL, IMO it wouldn't be because they got playing time as a 20 year old in the AHL, it is because they never had the talent or drive to succeed. That wouldn't be determined when they are 20, but more likely 22-25 years of age.

This is where I got the idea where you said if they can't produce in key situations you deem them as busts.

We don't have any "cream of the crop" prospects outside of Rielly though. I can't see any of them playing top line minutes in the AHL for a while.

I hope so as well.

What we don't have is a good idea about the Europeans. We have some medal winners from the best world championship teams, and yet so much praise for Canadian kids who aren't even good enough to make a weak Canadian team.

We continuously see the locals get picked as the best prospects even if they aren't good enough for Canadian teams that are inferior to the competition.

A huge bias here.

 

[BIitz]

I should have been more clear.

20 years old is (except Euro's and NCAA drop outs) is the youngest players usually in the AHL.

I think the "ruin" arguments are more applicable to 18 year olds (Schenn) in the NHL, where they're in over their heads.

At 20 the AHL is the league they learn in unless they are the bluechippers that go straight to the NHL.

If a player busts in the AHL, IMO it wouldn't be because they got playing time as a 20 year old in the AHL, it is because they never had the talent or drive to succeed. That wouldn't be determined when they are 20, but more likely 22-25 years of age.



What we don't have is a good idea about the Europeans. We have some medal winners from the best world championship teams, and yet so much praise for Canadian kids who aren't even good enough to make a weak Canadian team.

We continuously see the locals get picked as the best prospects even if they aren't good enough for Canadian teams that are inferior to the competition.

A huge bias here.

I see what your saying, guess I just got a mix up in communication. Still I don't think there are that many talented kids to play top line minutes at 22.

I don't want to turn this back into a Schenn thread, but if we ruined a guy and he's still a top 4 D man, he must have had some potential if we left him in the dub.

Also don't want to get into the whole Euro vs NA prospects debate.

 

[SteveV*]

Listening to Hughes yesterday, was quite high on Toninato. Could be a sleeper pick when the dust settles, hope he makes the US Junior Team.

 

[TopProspect91]

The scrimmages at 2:45pm tomorrow and 10am Thursday are open to the public correct?

Can anyone confirm this? I called Mastercard Arena and they only said that the Leafs rented the ice from 9-5pm today. She couldn't confirm if it was open to the public or if there was a scrimmage at 2:45.

 

[zeke]

It would be nice if it was treated as a development squad rather than a stepping stone to the NHL for the coach.

Yup.

Stacking the team with vets and having a coach who buries all thr kids on the bottom lines is just plain dumb.

 

[Pi]

Listening to Hughes yesterday, was quite high on Toninato. Could be a sleeper pick when the dust settles, hope he makes the US Junior Team.

He had a good year if we look at the stats. He was drafted where Jamie Benn was

I have no idea what kind of player he is but one can dream.

 

[Mess]

Yup.

Stacking the team with vets and having a coach who buries all thr kids on the bottom lines is just plain dumb.

If I've said it once, I've said it 1000 times. "Play the kids", as they're our future..

Hopefully Leafs really start focusing on development, because when you NHL team is tight against a cap its your youth on ELC contracts that have the biggest impact in building a competitive team. No NHL team has less drafted and developed players on their team than the Leafs.

 

[oigresa]

Can anyone confirm this? I called Mastercard Arena and they only said that the Leafs rented the ice from 9-5pm today. She couldn't confirm if it was open to the public or if there was a scrimmage at 2:45.

correct not open to the public......

 

[Fogelhund]

Listening to Hughes yesterday, was quite high on Toninato. Could be a sleeper pick when the dust settles, hope he makes the US Junior Team.

6'1"... 170lbs?????

 

[showtime8]

6'1"... 170lbs?????

By the time he fills out, he should be around the size of Logan Couture.

Just from watching the hi-lights on youtube, I see a lot of Couture in him. Lets hope that he turns into something close to him.

 

[BigWilly]

At the camp right now, here are some thoughts..

Connor Brown is insanely fast and good hands, if he can work on his agility and shot as well as get bigger he would be a seriously good prospect.

Cameranesi looks dynamite, very fast and shifty with a great release. The defense are having a hard time containing him.

Macwilliam looks like he could be a top 4 D on the Marlies.

Nillson looks terrible.

Percy is head and shoulders above everyone on the ice. (Rielly, Gauthier, Biggs haven't skated yet.)

 

[RickyVaive]

At the camp right now, here are some thoughts..

does this mean that it is open to the public or do you have some special privileges?

 

[KlattNazty]

At the camp right now, here are some thoughts..

Connor Brown is insanely fast and good hands, if he can work on his agility and shot as well as get bigger he would be a seriously good prospect.

Cameranesi looks dynamite, very fast and shifty with a great release. The defense are having a hard time containing him.

Macwilliam looks like he could be a top 4 D on the married.

Nillson looks terrible.

Percy is head and shoulders above everyone on the ice. (Rielly, Gauthier, Biggs haven't skated yet.)

Not surprising. Highest hockey IQ, well developed frame, has played a ton of minutes at competitive levels in recent years.

 

[Fogelhund]

I'd like to hear comments on Granberg if/when he is out there.

 

[613Leafer]

Not surprising. Highest hockey IQ, well developed frame, has played a ton of minutes at competitive levels in recent years.

Yep. He has VERY solid hockey IQ. Which is why I think he has a higher ceiling than a lot of people give him credit for. It's not the type of play people will really notice much at the CHL level, where people are obsessed with skill and/or dominating physical play.

He's been very solid at the AHL level in his short stints so far. I like his trajectory so far.