Speculation: Detroit's Next Move

[Go Wings]

I think Detroit management does a good job at drafting and acquiring free agents. Re-signing players is not their forte though.

Very true. This offseason has been a train wreck. We are up against the cap with too many forwards with Mantha and AA buried in GR we still have to resign Mrazek AND the ****ing defense has not been upgraded. Detroit will likely miss the playoffs this season

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Hasnt Holland been adamant about not giving up good picks and prospects just to move a contract/player?

He was crystal clear about that for Datsyuks contract. I agree Howard could be moved if that were the case but it looks like Holland is not at all interested in packaging high assets to dump a bad deal

It depends, I don't think a second round pick isn't worth moving Howard's or Ericsson's contract.

But yeah the people that ask for one of our top 5 prospects are going to be just as wrong as when they did it with Datsyuk.

He might prefer eating half instead of the second or third and mid-tier prospect. I would prefer the asset dump to be honest.

 

[Leadzedder]

Some info....


As per that link earlier in the thread, Detroit is at 73.5 million. Let's pretend Mrazek gets 4.5. That will put them at 78 million. There's only 6 dmen listed. So we need 1 more. It will either be Ouellet, Sproul or Jensen. Likely Ouellet. 700k. So...

78.7 mil. (5.7 million over the cap - within the 10% overage rule)

That's for a roster of 24 (15 forwards, 7 defence, 2 goalies) and as it turns out you're only allowed 23. So let's drop 1 forward.

Pulkinnen injured. LTIR to start the season. -800k
(Mantha was not calculated in the linked chart so in this exercise he's starting in Grand Rapids until a spot opens up)

So now, you have the proper roster size 14/7/2 and a cap number of 79.9 which is 4.9 million over the cap. The LTIR amount for Franzen and Vitale is 5 million. So, for this year, the wings are cap compliant without doing anything.

Now, here's some other important information... In order to fully gain the 5 million in LTIR space for Franzen and Vitale the wings WANT to be 5 million over the cap at the start of the season. If they are 2 million over the cap at season start they've pissed away 3 million in cap space for the season. I'm not saying that defends signing amounts or term but that's another thing that comes into play for the wings off season plan. It's almost like they know what they're doing sometimes.

You would think for the amount of moaning and groaning and posting some wings fans do they'd look at a chart to get knowledgeable before posting.

Anyways, it's no secret Holland wants to make a trade for a top 2 D. He's loaded up on 17-18 nhl quality forwards to facilitate such a trade. Does he get it done? Time will tell. But if he does, this offseason ends up making a lot more sense. He could move a forward, a D, a pick, etc, as long as even money was in / out. Bringing in a top 2 D could slot all our defence in their proper spots and would open up roster room for more ice time for younger players and Mantha could end up on the opening day roster, etc.

Eat your popcorn, summer's not over.

 

[Reddwit]

I still don't understand why Holland would re-sign Darren Helm when he already has Larkin, Nielsen, Sheahan, Glendening and Ott at Center.

No one else does either. I actually love the player Helm is, but that contract disgusts me. He's literally never been worth that AAV.

 

[David71]

so shelton benjamin is coming back eh?

 

[Reddwit]

I think Detroit management does a good job at drafting and acquiring free agents. Re-signing players is not their forte though.

Considering Holland's demise over the years (I'd actually consider it exhaustion if anything), part of me wonders if these signings aren't "parting gifts" to the players he's come to consider sons, setting them up for an extra set of years after Holland has retired. That could certainly explain the Abdelkader, Helm, and even Glendening (although I think Luke's deal is fine, and I don't even like the guy).

 

[Pavels Dog]

Some info....


As per that link earlier in the thread, Detroit is at 73.5 million. Let's pretend Mrazek gets 4.5. That will put them at 78 million. There's only 6 dmen listed. So we need 1 more. It will either be Ouellet, Sproul or Jensen. Likely Ouellet. 700k. So...

78.7 mil. (5.7 million over the cap - within the 10% overage rule)

That's for a roster of 24 (15 forwards, 7 defence, 2 goalies) and as it turns out you're only allowed 23. So let's drop 1 forward.

Pulkinnen injured. LTIR to start the season. -800k
(Mantha was not calculated in the linked chart so in this exercise he's starting in Grand Rapids until a spot opens up)

So now, you have the proper roster size 14/7/2 and a cap number of 79.9 which is 4.9 million over the cap. The LTIR amount for Franzen and Vitale is 5 million. So, for this year, the wings are cap compliant without doing anything.

Now, here's some other important information... In order to fully gain the 5 million in LTIR space for Franzen and Vitale the wings WANT to be 5 million over the cap at the start of the season. If they are 2 million over the cap at season start they've pissed away 3 million in cap space for the season. I'm not saying that defends signing amounts or term but that's another thing that comes into play for the wings off season plan. It's almost like they know what they're doing sometimes.

You would think for the amount of moaning and groaning and posting some wings fans do they'd look at a chart to get knowledgeable before posting.

Anyways, it's no secret Holland wants to make a trade for a top 2 D. He's loaded up on 17-18 nhl quality forwards to facilitate such a trade. Does he get it done? Time will tell. But if he does, this offseason ends up making a lot more sense. He could move a forward, a D, a pick, etc, as long as even money was in / out. Bringing in a top 2 D could slot all our defence in their proper spots and would open up roster room for more ice time for younger players and Mantha could end up on the opening day roster, etc.

Eat your popcorn, summer's not over.

Only truly reasonable post in the thread.

 

[SmokeyDuck]

Maybe either a Tatar+ deal for Fowler, Or a buy out of Howard most likely.

Wouldn't be surprised if this deal is done but BM wants to wait till Lindholm and Rakell sign.

 

[Debrincat93]

I think Detroit management does a good job at drafting and acquiring free agents. Re-signing players is not their forte though.

You think that, but they really aren't as good at drafting as most portray us to be. Someone published on THW I think, each team (only 10 I think was the list I saw yesterday) and what their roster would look like with ONLY drafted players. Its horrendous in comparison.

We used to be good at hitting a late and middle rounder for a few drafts but now (maybe arrogance took over) none of this has happened, really.

 

[Debrincat93]

Maybe either a Tatar+ deal for Fowler, Or a buy out of Howard most likely.

If they moved Tatar + for Fowler, the deal financially wouldn't help us at all unless it was another body or two going the other way that comes off the cap, such as Sheahan or something.

I hate saying it but maybe we will see a Howard buyout, unless he has a potential trade in the works. However, I don't see anyone wanting or needing him in any aspect.

 

[Maukkis]

If they moved Tatar + for Fowler, the deal financially wouldn't help us at all unless it was another body or two going the other way that comes off the cap, such as Sheahan or something.

I hate saying it but maybe we will see a Howard buyout, unless he has a potential trade in the works. However, I don't see anyone wanting or needing him in any aspect.

There are practically no teams left with a glaring need for a goalie anymore (or if there are, Howard won't be an upgrade). Trading him will be nearly impossible.

 

[Mad Brills*]

who is trading for howard that has the cap space and needs him?

Just wait until next summer and buy him out.

 

[obey86]

who is trading for howard that has the cap space and needs him?

Just wait until next summer and buy him out.

It would make much more sense cap wise to trade him with 50% retained than it would be to buy him out. Someone would take him on a 2 year contract at 2.6M per year.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Wouldn't be surprised if this deal is done but BM wants to wait till Lindholm and Rakell sign.

My thinking as well, Maybe there has already been a deal struck between Holland and BM at the draft, About a Tatar+ deal for Fowler but BM wants to lock up both Lindholm and Rakell before doing the deal. That could be quite possible here.

 

[Maukkis]

It would make much more sense cap wise to trade him with 50% retained than it would be to buy him out. Someone would take him on a 2 year contract at 2.6M per year.

Who exactly?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

If they moved Tatar + for Fowler, the deal financially wouldn't help us at all unless it was another body or two going the other way that comes off the cap, such as Sheahan or something.

I hate saying it but maybe we will see a Howard buyout, unless he has a potential trade in the works. However, I don't see anyone wanting or needing him in any aspect.

Totally agree, My thinking was and it was proposed by a Ducks fan was. Tatar+Sheahan for Cam Fowler i would gladly do this deal. We shed around $835,000 or so in this deal. Would depend on what BM was seeking i would imagine that he would want either Mantha/AA included in the deal and Holland would say no not giving up either for Fowler maybe for Shattenkirk or Trouba definitely No for Fowler Tatar+Sheahan is fair for Cam Fowler.

Totally agree about Howard, Right now all teams are set with their Goaltending needs. Unless a team or two have their starting Goaltending go down with a season ending injury we're pretty much stuck with Howard. Holland pretty much stated that he's willing to do a buy out for the right reason but really doesn't want to commit to one right now. Maybe if Vegas doesn't take Howard next summer then maybe Howard in bought out next year instead.

 

[Duck Off]

Wouldn't be surprised if this deal is done but BM wants to wait till Lindholm and Rakell sign.

My thinking as well, Maybe there has already been a deal struck between Holland and BM at the draft, About a Tatar+ deal for Fowler but BM wants to lock up both Lindholm and Rakell before doing the deal. That could be quite possible here.

I don't disagree that they could already have some type of agreement in place. Although, I don't want it to happen; I've been saying I expected Fowler to be traded for Tatar + Sheahan. I don't like this trade as a Duck fan, as I don't think it makes us any better than we are with Fowler. However, it makes a lot of sense for both teams so it's what I expect to happen.

That said, this doesn't help either team financially right now. Once Lindholm and Rakell sign, we'll be way over budget, even with this trade. So, while it's still a likely trade IMO, it's far from certain, as it doesn't really help either team with their financial trouble.

 

[drw02]

Wings won't buy out Howard. He isn't that bad, he's def overpaid but still has starter ability albeit low end. If they did buy him out then they'd have to sign a backup and would only net roughly 1.5M in cap so not really worth it.

I don't really foresee any upcoming moves the rest of the summer unless it's trading a roster forward in a package for a top 2 D which doesn't seem very likely with Holland at the helm.

 

[Duck Off]

I don't disagree that they could already have some type of agreement in place. Although, I don't want it to happen; I've been saying I expected Fowler to be traded for Tatar + Sheahan. I don't like this trade as a Duck fan, as I don't think it makes us any better than we are with Fowler. However, it makes a lot of sense for both teams so it's what I expect to happen.

That said, this doesn't help either team financially right now. Once Lindholm and Rakell sign, we'll be way over budget, even with this trade. So, while it's still a likely trade IMO, it's far from certain, as it doesn't really help either team with their financial trouble.

I didn't realize that Sheahan made 2 million +. Since that's the case, that would actually help Detroit financially, but it doesn't help Anaheim. Therefore, there's clearly more holding this trade up than Rakell and Lindholm's extensions.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Wings won't buy out Howard. He isn't that bad, he's def overpaid but still has starter ability albeit low end. If they did buy him out then they'd have to sign a backup and would only net roughly 1.5M in cap so not really worth it.

I don't really foresee any upcoming moves the rest of the summer unless it's trading a roster forward in a package for a top 2 D which doesn't seem very likely with Holland at the helm.

A bought out Jimmy Howard for this season would save them just shy of 4 million cap dollars. A backup is likely only going to cost a million at most. That's a net 3 million saved. I don't know where you get a 1.5 mil net from.

 

[sean3250]

Detroit has no "next move". They have a one way ticket to being out of the playoffs. Ken Holland's genius moves include giving long term contracts to mediocre players such as Helm, Ericcson, Howard, and Abdelkader. Combine that with the current contracts of Z, Kronner, and Franzen (which were fine at the time). How can a team be successful and have 7 multiple year contracts where the most effective player in that group is soon to be 36 years old? Detroit has no future cap or roster flexibility and it's all on Ken. Promising prospects will be back in the minors where they don't belong. It's the Detroit way. He helped build multiple cup winners and he's going to leave the team on the opposite end of the spectrum when he hopefully retires after two seasons.

It's laughable to think Holland will make a trade for a D too. He doesn't make trades for roster players. Never has and never will.

I honestly can't think of a team in a worse future position then Detroit is in. Terrible contracts, minimal young talent (Larks and Mrazek), no #1D on the horizon, washed up GM who doesn't understand salary cap hockey, BAD coaching etc. etc. Watching Holland run this historic franchise to the ground is a real kick in the groin that's for sure. Blashill is Mike Babcock without the coaching skill. Makes even worse lineup decisions than Mike did. Chris Ilitch doesn't seem to care much at all either. He's different from Mike and seems to have no qualms if the team has no future as long as he can make revenue on the "streak" and past successes.

The entire FO/Coaching staff minus Tyler Wright, Hakan Anderson, and Todd Nelson needs to be fired. That should be Detroit's "next move."

 

[wingsfan17]

It's laughable that a roster of this quality is at the cap ceiling. What's more laughable is how they are already screwed for the 2017-18 season as well. Let's say vanek leaves, smith re-signs for about the same and the cap goes up $3m. Wings would have about $6m in cap space. Factor in Tatar probably gets a $2m raise and the weiss' cap penalty increases 1.5m. So now the wings have 2-3m to replace Vanek IF the cap goes up that much, if the cap stays the same they lose players, get older and are at the cap ceiling. Pathetic.

Heck you could even go further and into 2018-2019 where their only UFA off the books is Mike Green, and then you have to sign Dylan Larkin, so call that close to a wash and you essentially lose Green. I think it's clear Holland needs to retain some salary and trade some of these guys, or buyout if worst comes to worst.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

Holland was good in the past but he should be fired right now. Bad contracts after bad contracts.

That's what happens when the real brains behind the scenes (Nill & Bowman) leave and reveal him to be nothing but an average GM at best.

 

[drw02]

A bought out Jimmy Howard for this season would save them just shy of 4 million cap dollars. A backup is likely only going to cost a million at most. That's a net 3 million saved. I don't know where you get a 1.5 mil net from.

Could have swore last time I did Howard buyout it showed he'd still have like 2.6M cap hit this year, but I guess I remembered incorrectly. Still, don't think he'd be the one to be bought out, he still has a purpose for Detroit. Honestly if they did buy someone out I think/hope it would be Ericsson. He really does nothing for them but cost them a bunch of money and block their young D.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Could have swore last time I did Howard buyout it showed he'd still have like 2.6M cap hit this year, but I guess I remembered incorrectly. Still, don't think he'd be the one to be bought out, he still has a purpose for Detroit. Honestly if they did buy someone out I think/hope it would be Ericsson. He really does nothing for them but cost them a bunch of money and block their young D.

They would have a 2.6 cap hit in 2018-19 but it's 1.4 and 1.9 the two seasons leading into that year.