Detroit Redwings Downfall

TKB

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Jun 12, 2010
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Chicago
Playing the minutes of a number one D on a bad team doesn’t default a player into being a true number one D..Larkin plays the role of a one C, but is he actually a one C on a good team?
Imo Yzerman did the best (or close to it) he could in his drafts. He got good players, but he didn’t get the key difference makers.

Rather than getting caught up in exact labels or trying to rank 1-32, how about recognizing that Seider is a difference maker, and though it is very early (and I don't like what this staff has done to Seider's game) but Edvinsson looks like he might be even better.
 
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Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
26,503
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This was kinda assumed, considering you avoid evaluating any Sens draft year outside 2020 like the plague.
Lmao reading comprehension
You decided to derail the lottery luck topic I was having with another poster.

I’ve discussed every years picks, including GP from 2018 forward, if you have trouble reading them, then I can’t help you.
 

FriendlyGhost92

Registered User
Jun 22, 2023
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Lmao reading comprehension
You decided to derail the lottery luck topic I was having with another poster.

I’ve discussed every years picks, including GP from 2018 forward, if you have trouble reading them, then I can’t help you.

Yes, you love talking about games played, but not anything of actually real substance.

Again, Kirk Maltby was a better player than Mario Lemieux. :laugh:
 
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ITM

Out on the front line, don't worry I'll be fine...
Jan 26, 2012
4,806
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This thread is a reflection of the present day and age's absence of perspective and patience, not Red Wings management galaxy braining themselves into self-destruction.

It's probably a few years away from showing, but Detroit has some fantastic pieces coming, and nothing, not a single piece Yzerman's signed or acquired has or will hamstring the imminent future of success. To the contrary:

Your foundational pieces are all under $9M and at the beginning of their deals, making them the ideal piece in any rebuild/retool situation that would yield a king's ransom; Not that you'd want Larkin or Seider going anywhere.

Multiple contracts are done at the end of this season: Kane, Petry, Lyon, HUSSO.

Multiple contracts end the year after: Gustafsson, Holl, Talbot.

Detroit has all its draft picks I believe, except a 4th in 2025...and of course Yzerman will replace it and likely then some. And those that Detroit has used are very interesting (e.g. ASP).

Perspective and patience, people. I think Detroit is going to be just fine.
 

Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
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Yes, you love talking about games played, but not anything of actually real substance.
You just said I avoided it, , you’re very confused, you change your mind every 2 minutes, try and stick to one thought, instead of being the captain of team goalpost moves.
cheers,
 

FriendlyGhost92

Registered User
Jun 22, 2023
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You just said I avoided it, , you’re very confused, you change your mind every 2 minutes, try and stick to one thought, instead of being the captain of team goalpost moves.
cheers,

You keep talking about moving goalposts and I'm just trying to figure out what goalposts have been moved.

Do continue hiding behind games played to compare Pinto/Kastelic/Boucher/Thomson to Seider/Edvinsson/Cossa/Kasper/Danielson/ASP lmao.
 

Dotter

THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Jul 2, 2014
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If Wings notable drafted players in the farm system live up to just mid of their potential, then I think Wings just need a #1 center to eventually replace Larkin.

I think it's safe to say one of Kasper/Danielsson will be a fine 2nd line center.

Cossa's trajectory as a #1 goalie looks solid. Augustine could become a pleasant surprise.

One of Buchelnikov/Lombardi/MBN have potential to develop into a top scoring winger. I would not be surprised if one make it as a star player, while the other two become tweeners at best.

Bottom 6-forwards and bottom 4-d should be set with players in the system, from ASP, Wallinder, Buium. bottom 6 forward group look like a PIA to play against core; Mazur (already NHL ready), Kiiskinen, etc...

Whatever doesn't pan out on the bottom could easily be addressed via UFA.

So imo, Yzerman needs to score a dynamic #1 centerman within the next 3 - 5 years. Larkin is in his prime right now, but Wings have nobody to replace him. I don't think either Danielsson or Kasper fit that role.
 

Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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Rather than getting caught up in exact labels or trying to rank 1-32, how about recognizing that Seider is a difference maker, and though it is very early (and I don't like what this staff has done to Seider's game) but Edvinsson looks like he might be even better.
Imo Seider will become a good partner for a true number one. Edvinson will grow into a good second pairing guy. ASP still could become that much needed difference maker. Only so much money to go around. Second contracts for guys will eat up cap. Yzerman needs to keep from stalling the rebuild.
 
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TKB

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Jun 12, 2010
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Chicago
Imo Seider will become a good partner for a true number one. Edvinson will grow into a good second pairing guy. ASP still could become that much needed difference maker. Only so much money to go around. Second contracts for guys will eat up cap. Yzerman needs to keep from stalling the rebuild.

Which is why the Larkin deal last year and Seider and Raymond deals this year were so critical.

So many in this thread have missed this part of SY's rebuild/ laying the long term foundation.

I am as frustrated with this DRW season as anyone, but in the big picture so far this has actually been a good year for the "plan." Key prospects are progressing and a salary/term structure has been established.
 

Dotter

THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Jul 2, 2014
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goo.gl
Playing the minutes of a number one D on a bad team doesn’t default a player into being a true number one D..Larkin plays the role of a one C, but is he actually a one C on a good team?
Imo Yzerman did the best (or close to it) he could in his drafts. He got good players, but he didn’t get the key difference makers.

Larkin is currently ranked #15 center in the entire NHL:

Seider is currently ranked #20 in the NHL among all defensemen:

The Hockey News thinks he should be ranked higher, but what's holding him back is he only scored 50 points. Seider just needs to increase his points to move up the ranking.

Edvinsson is a rookie, he isn't ranked yet. The next ranking will certainly have him high up on the list. He honestly looks like he could surpass the already amazing Seider.

Wings #1 and #2 Dmen are set for the next 15 years! They are already one of the best pairing in the NHL right now... Just wait until they hit their prime!
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
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Imo Seider will become a good partner for a true number one. Edvinson will grow into a good second pairing guy.
They're 3rd in goals% among NHL d-pairs this season. That's insane. And functionally impossible if your opinion was even close to accurate.
Even among expected numbers they're one of the best.
 

Jersey Fresh

Video Et Taceo
Feb 23, 2004
26,994
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Larkin is currently ranked #15 center in the entire NHL:

Seider is currently ranked #20 in the NHL among all defensemen:

The Hockey News thinks he should be ranked higher, but what's holding him back is he only scored 50 points. Seider just needs to increase his points to move up the ranking.

Edvinsson is a rookie, he isn't ranked yet. The next ranking will certainly have him high up on the list. He honestly looks like he could surpass the already amazing Seider.

Wings #1 and #2 Dmen are set for the next 15 years! They are already one of the best pairing in the NHL right now... Just wait until they hit their prime!
Didn’t bother looking at the defensemen list, but that list of centers is god awful.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
99,227
65,611
Ottawa, ON
Yup, Larkin is a tenacious two way centerman and leader at the peak of his prime. Stutzle will get there someday.

The scoring difference between MacKinnon and Stutzle is smaller than the difference between Stutzle and Larkin.

The point being that I question the relevance of the list. I like Dylan Larkin, but I think he's a mid to below average #1C.

Seeing as he's tied for 37th in points/per game for centres with over 10 games played, I think that's being pretty fair.
 
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FriendlyGhost92

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Jun 22, 2023
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Imo Seider will become a good partner for a true number one. Edvinson will grow into a good second pairing guy. ASP still could become that much needed difference maker. Only so much money to go around. Second contracts for guys will eat up cap. Yzerman needs to keep from stalling the rebuild.

You're either trolling or don't watch hockey.
 

stl76

No. 5 in your programs, No. 1 in your hearts
Jul 2, 2015
9,504
9,127
Tell me more how wonderful the great Nick Leddy is. LMAO!

Did he play 5 games yet? u just mad Yzerman FLEECED your club.
Laugh all you want but Nick Leddy has been very good on a top pairing with Parayko that has seen extremely difficult deployment. You won’t find many Blues fans who aren’t perfectly happy with that trade right now, even if there were a lot who disliked it at the time.

Fleeced how? We have Larry Keenan left from that trade, which wasn't even that long ago.
FWIW I thought it was a good trade for Detroit at the time. Happy with how things have worked out for the Blues tho.
 

stl76

No. 5 in your programs, No. 1 in your hearts
Jul 2, 2015
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You're just making things up now.


Leddy was not acquired by St. Louis as a "cap dump". They were a playoff team and won a series that year. They acquired him to improve their team. That literally doesn't even make sense as he had an expiring contract and Detroit wasn't clearing out cap to make another move.

They signed him to a 4-year extension that offseason which is not a thing a team does for a "cap dump".
You’re right but judging from their other posts in this thread the poster you’re quoting doesn’t seem interested in facts or reasonable discussion.
 

TKB

Registered User
Jun 12, 2010
1,216
534
Chicago
Laugh all you want but Nick Leddy has been very good on a top pairing with Parayko that has seen extremely difficult deployment. You won’t find many Blues fans who aren’t perfectly happy with that trade right now, even if there were a lot who disliked it at the time.


FWIW I thought it was a good trade for Detroit at the time. Happy with how things have worked out for the Blues tho.
Good for Leddy. Thought he got a bit of a bum rap in Chicago. Didn’t see his NYI stint, and Detroit was a matter of surroundings.
 

bov

Registered User
Nov 13, 2010
7,400
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The roster just isn't that good. They're right about where they should be, looking at the team on paper. Questionable goaltending, thin D, and some veterans showing their age. Detroit has an impressive group of younger players & prospects, but they haven't surrounded them with impactful players.

I still think highly of Yzerman but he is mostly responsible, I don't blame the coaching. Still, this will be a good team eventually with all those pieces.
 
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Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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You're either trolling or don't watch hockey.
It’s an opinion. Imo Edvinson will develop into a solid second pairing guy on a winning team. Guys play higher in the lineup than they should on clubs that aren’t good. That doesn’t make them that level of player. With both Seider and Edvinson (imo) they are playing roles above what they are capable of. They both still have runways of development left. And I believe they will be good. Just in the appropriate roles. Seider will be a good #2. Edvinson will grow into a good 3/4. Neither, right now should be carrying a top pairing. It’s an opinion.
 

FriendlyGhost92

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Jun 22, 2023
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It’s an opinion. Imo Edvinson will develop into a solid second pairing guy on a winning team. Guys play higher in the lineup than they should on clubs that aren’t good. That doesn’t make them that level of player. With both Seider and Edvinson (imo) they are playing roles above what they are capable of. They both still have runways of development left. And I believe they will be good. Just in the appropriate roles. Seider will be a good #2. Edvinson will grow into a good 3/4. Neither, right now should be carrying a top pairing. It’s an opinion.

It's a poor opinion considering he's readily handling 1st pairing assignments now.
 

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