stl76
No. 5 in your programs, No. 1 in your hearts
- Jul 2, 2015
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Detroit Redwings Downfall
- Thread starter Dbarthnek96
- Start date
eviohh26
Registered User
I've watched him play in the WHL live a few times and Danielson looks like a 2nd center imo. I could be wrong but that's what I saw in him at the time.
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Tell me more how wonderful the great Nick Leddy is. LMAO!
Did he play 5 games yet? u just mad Yzerman FLEECED your club.
Lampedampe
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2015
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We'll see what happens to Kasper and Danielson, Neither of us can say with any certainty how good these guys will be.
But why are you ignoring ASP and Cossa, are they not fitting the narrative?
So far, im quite pleased that Yzerman in his 3 first drafts added the following talent to the team.
Seider,
Raymond,
Edvinsson
All 3 are a pleasure to watch. Rest of the league haven't caught up to how good Edvinsson is, but they will.
I haven't looked, but from the draft classes 2019-2021 does any team have a better trio to show for, without a top-3 pick?
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Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
And people who watched Larkin in a few games said he was gonna be a 3rd liner. Remember when "Helm with hands" was trending?
Fatass
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- Apr 17, 2017
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Imagine having Quinn Hughes, Hronek, and Seider on D. Hughes wasn’t an Yzerman miss but he did trade a 25 year old Hronek. The Wings would be so much better if they had those three guys on D.
Hughes - Hronek
Edvinson - Seider
best top four in the league. Imo
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Lampedampe
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- Feb 26, 2015
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You never know how drafts turn out after you start going back and changing players.
But, they could've iced:
Edvinsson-Seider
Walman-Hronek
I'm sure if you go around Red Wings forum around the 2021-2022 season this is probably the top-4 that alot of people projected for this season. So it was a known scenario for the top-4.
We can judge Yzerman for this in a couple years, but for whatever reason Yzerman didn't deem that defense to be a championship worthy defense. We're all hoping this is correct and ASP can come in and transform this into an elite defense for the foreseeable future.
Billy Kvcmu
Registered User
I’ll say it again and again
Yzerman is Jim Benning with a HHOF playing career
Maybe this is the year he hits PPG
Yzerman is Jim Benning with a HHOF playing career
Congrats on him beating a slumping EP
Maybe this is the year he hits PPG
Sergei Shirokov
Registered User
Its really hard to rebuild in this league, people who clamor for it don't understand how hard it is to get back into being a continual 'playoff team' let alone contender.
You need to draft no-doubt-about-it corner stones then hope you totally nailed atleast a few picks you made around them. Then go balls to the wall building around that group, making atleast a few A level trades, hoping signings exceed expectations, exc..
Its very difficult. As a Canucks fan I feel lucky to have gotten Hughes+Petey, Demko in the 2nd round, then getting Miller & having him so far exceed expectations is an example (+ Hronek). Its just hard.
I think for Detroit they haven't gotten the necessary corner stones (Seider is one, Raymond is fantastic but not a center, Edvinsson is a great top 4D but not #1).
And they haven't made great moves outside the drafting. Trading Hronek (though ASP looks great), + some of the big signings of mid players to significant contracts.
They just didn't grab another corner stone (ideally a C), perhaps rushed that 'bottom-out' part of the process, then signed mid free agents to significant $$$ and now find themselves stuck in the middle.
You need to draft no-doubt-about-it corner stones then hope you totally nailed atleast a few picks you made around them. Then go balls to the wall building around that group, making atleast a few A level trades, hoping signings exceed expectations, exc..
Its very difficult. As a Canucks fan I feel lucky to have gotten Hughes+Petey, Demko in the 2nd round, then getting Miller & having him so far exceed expectations is an example (+ Hronek). Its just hard.
I think for Detroit they haven't gotten the necessary corner stones (Seider is one, Raymond is fantastic but not a center, Edvinsson is a great top 4D but not #1).
And they haven't made great moves outside the drafting. Trading Hronek (though ASP looks great), + some of the big signings of mid players to significant contracts.
They just didn't grab another corner stone (ideally a C), perhaps rushed that 'bottom-out' part of the process, then signed mid free agents to significant $$$ and now find themselves stuck in the middle.
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Oddbob
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- Jan 21, 2016
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Fleeced how? We have Larry Keenan left from that trade, which wasn't even that long ago.
Ulysses31
Registered User
Pavels Dog
Registered User
Seider - leads all 2019 d-men in most relevant categories
Raymond - best winger of 2020, probably 2nd best player overall
Edvinsson - looks like a contender for best d-man from 2021 draft
Cossa - looks like the best goalie of the 2021 draft
Kasper - Arguably the 2nd best center of the 2022 draft right now
Danielson - heating up in the AHL, trending really well among 2023 draftees
Sandin-Pellikka - looks like the best offensive d-man of the 2023 draft
Augustine - looks like the best goalie of the 2023 draft
How have they not drafted well?
Raymond has also outscored Keller, Stützle, Kempe, Barkov, Necas, Kopitar, Eichel, Connor, Caufield, Ehlers, Jack Hughes, Guentzel, Larkin, Fiala, Jason Robertson, Malkin, Stamkos, Robert Thomas, etc. in 2024 but I guess they were all slumping. How lucky Raymond is that most of the league decided to slump to make him look better than he actually is!
And yes, I know a couple of those guys have a higher Pts/GP but missed games, I'm not actually saying Raymond is superior to all of those names - I'm just dismissing the notion that Detroit has no one comparable to those names.
RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
Hronek was never going to be that guy in Detroit but the Hughes miss was a huge mistake yes. What can ya do. Holland f***ed up.
So far, Yzerman hasn’t f***ed up in the first round at least.
This, again, is a weird example considering outside the Stutzle year Ottawa's drafting has been ass since 2019.
You already pointed out that Hughes wasn't an Yzerman issue.
As it stands right now, Hronek was never going to play ahead of Seider but was going to command a large payday that Yzerman obviously wasn't going to give him. So he got top value for Hronek at that point in his career.
... Ended up parlaying it into a hell of a RHD prospect replacement, so we'll see where that goes.
Fatass
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- Apr 17, 2017
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Maybe the Yzerman draft years were just oddly weak where he was drafting? Still no star player to lead the club. No true difference maker. No number one centre to push Larkin to the 2C role, where he is best suited. No number one D. No great goalie. Lots of good younger player. But missing those special guys who make the difference. So, as you point out, not bad drafting; just weak draft classes.
Oddbob
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- Jan 21, 2016
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How is a 25 minute a night defender who plays all areas in Seider not a difference maker? Raymond also is starting to become really clutch at scoring late goals when we are tied or need a goal. If the D level is Makar or Hughes only, then 30 teams don't hit that level on the blueline. Seider is definitely among the elite young defenders right now.
WarriorofTime
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- Jul 3, 2010
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You're just making things up now.
Blues get D Leddy from Red Wings - TSN.ca
The St. Louis Blues have added some Stanley Cup-winning experience to their blueline, acquiring defenceman Nick Leddy from the Detroit Red Wings, it was announced Monday.
www.tsn.ca
Blues bulk up on back line, add veteran D Leddy
Looking to add depth on defense as the postseason nears, the St. Louis Blues on Monday acquired Detroit Red Wings veteran Nick Leddy, 31, who is in the final season of a seven-year contract and will be an unrestricted free agent in the summer.
Blues acquire Leddy, Witkowski from Red Wings | St. Louis Blues
Blues send Oskar Sundqvist, Jake Walman and a 2023 second-round pick to Detroit
www.nhl.com
Leddy was not acquired by St. Louis as a "cap dump". They were a playoff team and won a series that year. They acquired him to improve their team. That literally doesn't even make sense as he had an expiring contract and Detroit wasn't clearing out cap to make another move.
They signed him to a 4-year extension that offseason which is not a thing a team does for a "cap dump".
Fatass
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- Apr 17, 2017
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Seider is a good player but he’s definitely not a top tier D man. Like you pointed out he was a good pick. There wasn’t better at that spot. Seider is an example of Yzermsn picking a good player in a weaker draft class. Imo Yzerman will need to trade some of his good younger players in hopes to get a difference maker. Like what Vegas did to get Eichel. Not too sure if he can sign a Pietrangelo number one D as a UFA. Finding these true difference maker outside of the draft is rare. But Yzerman might be able to via trade.
Golden_Jet
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- Sep 21, 2005
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This is a weird comment , since the poster I was engaging with, was a discussion on lottery luck, not a yearly draft evaluation.
This was kinda assumed, considering you avoid evaluating any Sens draft year outside 2020 like the plague.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
If you don’t think Seider is a #1D your hockey opinion basically gets invalidated.
Not seeing #1 potential in Edvinsson would also be questionable.
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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Playing the minutes of a number one D on a bad team doesn’t default a player into being a true number one D..Larkin plays the role of a one C, but is he actually a one C on a good team?
Imo Yzerman did the best (or close to it) he could in his drafts. He got good players, but he didn’t get the key difference makers.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
Yes Larkin is a 1C. Yes Seider is a 1D.
Like holy shit dude, Wings missed playoffs by a hair last season, it’s not like Seider played 1D on a 50 point team and was a -40.
