Detroit Redwings Downfall

[dirtydanglez]

yzerplan failed. they are stuck in mediocrity.

 

[Pavels Dog]

yzerplan failed. they are stuck in mediocrity.

Agreed, now stop obsessing over it. 31 other teams need 100+ main board pages a month too.

 

[Reality Check]

I'm guessing the Yzerplan thread was finally, mercifully locked. Thus, we needed to create part 2.

The still touching grass version.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Agreed, now stop obsessing over it. 31 other teams need 100+ main board pages a month too.

this will be yzermans 6th season as gm and the redwings 9th season of the rebuild. it's perfectly reasonable to discussing their progess or lack of.

 

[Pavels Dog]

this will be yzermans 6th season as gm and the redwings 9th season of the rebuild. it's perfectly reasonable to discussing their progess or lack of.

This is the 7th page of the 6th ”discussing the progress or lack there of” thread on the main boards. It’s perfectly reasonable at this point to say the doubters have had their say and nothing more can be gained from going in circles.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The older guys you listed as "core" are placeholders aside from Larkin and maybe Debrincat. Sieder, Raymond and Edvinsson are still developing. Below is the bright future of the core:

Danielson (20) - your boy Bedard says he was the hardest player to play against.
Axel Sandin Pellikka (19)
Kasper (20)
Cossa (21)
Augustine (19)
Michael Brandsegg Nygard (18)
---

Lombardi (21) looking pretty offensively solid.
Buchelnikov (21) tearing up the KHL.

Wings still rank top 5 in the prospect pool.

Those are prospects. Do you know the difference between core and prospect?

DeBrincat - teams don’t trade first round picks for “placeholders” unless they think they’re a guy away.

 

[dirtydanglez]

This is the 7th page of the 6th ”discussing the progress or lack there of” thread on the main boards. It’s perfectly reasonable at this point to say the doubters have had their say and nothing more can be gained from going in circles.

clearly there is a lot to be discussed then

 

[VeteranPresence]

clearly there is a lot to be discussed then

Like learning Dylan Larkin is a 50 goal man! The wonders never cease.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Like learning Dylan Larkin is a 50 goal man! The wonders never cease.

So you’ll admit 14 games is too early to draw conclusions?

 

[Dotter]

Those are prospects. Do you know the difference between core and prospect?

DeBrincat - teams don’t trade first round picks for “placeholders” unless they think they’re a guy away.

Then connor bedard isn't core, but rather mid since he produces as a mid top 6. His future is below Dylan Larkin, amirite?

News Flash: prospects need to become core pieces for any rebuild to be successful. You're very opinionated on DRWs 'lack of success', while they aren't even playing the majority of their prospects yet... who some need to be the centerpiece going forward.

Or maybe you can't judge prospects. That's probably the REAL TRUTH to your dilemma and lack of understanding.

 

[Pavels Dog]

DeBrincat - teams don’t trade first round picks for “placeholders” unless they think they’re a guy away.

There’s reasons the only 1st they’ve traded was a 25th overall ’extra’ pick, essentially swapping Bertuzzi for Debrincat.

 

[Czechboy]

Hope that is clear for you.

I stopped reading... you are somehow arguing me saying 'the Canucks rebuild is better than Detroits'.. which I never said. But you keep arguing it and make it clear for me.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Then connor bedard isn't core, but rather mid since he produces as a mid top 6. His future is below Dylan Larkin, amirite?

News Flash: prospects need to become core pieces for any rebuild to be successful. You're very opinionated on DRWs 'lack of success', while they aren't even playing the majority of their prospects yet... who some need to be the centerpiece going forward.

Or maybe you can't judge prospects. That's probably the REAL TRUTH to your dilemma and lack of understanding.

Please stop replying in bad faith. Bedard is “core” because he’s on the roster in a big role and big producer at a team specific level. This is similar to Larkin who is “core” and Raymond and Seider.

It’s not a comment on anyone’s current ability within such role.

The equivalent of like Nate Danielson on a Hawk level is like Frank Nazar not Connor Bedard. They are called “prospects” and their nhl future will be better known in a couple years when they are older and have some more opportunity at the nhl level.

 

[HaNotsri]

Seider looks like some of Buffalo's failed top defensemen during this dark era. He's put in a position to fail over and over. Not a good spot to be in.
I think Detroit should decide between pushing even harder or a small re-tool.

 

[VeteranPresence]

So you’ll admit 14 games is too early to draw conclusions?

Not when the team’s performance overall is similar to the past eight years, no. There are such things as patterns, and they tend to repeat themselves when the same people are making the same decisions again and again…

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Who exactly were the Wings supposed to acquire over the last four years that would be a huge, star-level difference maker

 

[bleedgreen]

Oh good, another Yzerman bashing thread.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

To be fair, they tanked twice and got 4OA and 6OA in those years. So it wasn't for a lack of "trying". I think people just have an unfair expectation when the top 6 dmen have 3 players who should never be in the NHL at this stage of their careers (Gustavsson, Petry, Holl).

Not sure there is an easy solution to Detroit's issues, other than to hope players like Danielson, Mazur, Lombardi, Buchelnikov, and Pellikka can all produce in the NHL.

I’m not buying that either. Redwings drafted in the top 10, 7 consecutive seasons. This wasn’t a team that hit rock bottom for 2 seasons and got screwed. Yes no lotto luck, but got Raymond with 4ov one of the best production players from that draft and could have easily drafted Hughes right out of their own backyard with the 6ov. This is clearly on managements draft selection and roster building.

I personally think Redwings would be worse had they drafted 1ov in 2020 as Raymond since his draft has been better than Lafreniere who was the NHL consensus #1. Even if you don’t agree with that I’d have a hard time being convinced swapping them does anything for Detroit even if someone believes Lafreniere moving forward is better.

 

[thefutures]

Those are prospects. Do you know the difference between core and prospect?

DeBrincat - teams don’t trade first round picks for “placeholders” unless they think they’re a guy away.

Habs traded multiple 1sts in the last few years and nobody thinks they are a guy away.
Ottawa also traded that exact same 1st from the debricant deal for ullmark,

 

[Winger98]

I’m not buying that either. Redwings drafted in the top 10, 7 consecutive seasons. This wasn’t a team that hit rock bottom for 2 seasons and got screwed. Yes no lotto luc, but got Raymond with 4ov one of the best production players from that draft and could have easily drafted Hughes right out of their own backyard with the 6ov. This is clearly on managements draft selection and roster building.

This management group didn't pass on Hughes.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Habs traded multiple 1sts in the last few years and nobody thinks they are a guy away.
Ottawa also traded that exact same 1st from the debricant deal for ullmark,

Ullmark is core.

 

[Winger98]

To be fair, they tanked twice and got 4OA and 6OA in those years. So it wasn't for a lack of "trying". I think people just have an unfair expectation when the top 6 dmen have 3 players who should never be in the NHL at this stage of their careers (Gustavsson, Petry, Holl).

Not sure there is an easy solution to Detroit's issues, other than to hope players like Danielson, Mazur, Lombardi, Buchelnikov, and Pellikka can all produce in the NHL.

I've thought it's been pretty clear that has been what the Wings are hoping/waiting on. Not all of them will hit, but a lot are looking good in their development and all of the placeholder vets they have signed will be falling off the roster right as those guys should be stepping in.

 

[norrisnick]

Seider looks like some of Buffalo's failed top defensemen during this dark era. He's put in a position to fail over and over. Not a good spot to be in.
I think Detroit should decide between pushing even harder or a small re-tool.

Nah, he's not near as bad as Dahlin or Power.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

This management group didn't pass on Hughes.

It was on Holland I’m well aware. I’m an Oil fan who just celebrated moving on from him.

That’s was still on management. Current or not. My point was in relation to having poor lotto luck, the club could have with 6ov drafted Hughes. Beyond that picking 6th had not 1 but 2 teams go off the board with the 3rd and 5th selections. All I’m saying is the Redwings issues both past and present isn’t due to the draft lotto.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Please stop replying in bad faith. Bedard is “core” because he’s on the roster in a big role and big producer at a team specific level. This is similar to Larkin who is “core” and Raymond and Seider.

It’s not a comment on anyone’s current ability within such role.

The equivalent of like Nate Danielson on a Hawk level is like Frank Nazar not Connor Bedard. They are called “prospects” and their nhl future will be better known in a couple years when they are older and have some more opportunity at the nhl level.

Hard to believe someone doesn’t know the difference.