Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Winger98]

It was on Holland I’m well aware. I’m an Oil fan who just celebrated moving on from him.

That’s was still on management. Current or not. My point was in relation to having poor lotto luck, the club could have with 6ov drafted Hughes. Beyond that picking 6th had not 1 but 2 teams go off the board with the 3rd and 5th selections. All I’m saying is the Redwings issues both past and present isn’t due to the draft lotto.

I get your side of this but it feels a bit disingenuous slapping both management groups together under a blanket condemnation over their drafting and roster building.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

I am sick of Yzerman, Federov, Zetterburg

The Facebook guy?

 

[Bondurant]

Listen to Yzerman's presser introducing him as Wings GM. He didn't beat around the bush.

 

[Byron Bitz]

It was just a low quality rebuild. Stevie Y built a team that looks like it will probably peak as a playoff bubble team.

 

[SirKillalot]

It was on Holland I’m well aware. I’m an Oil fan who just celebrated moving on from him.

Got the team from almost bottom to a couple of goals of the Stanley Cup. Must be terrible...

 

[Sadekuuro]

Nah, he's not near as bad as Dahlin or Power.

Hey now, one of those two is really good.

 

[RandV]

This thread is from 10 years ago

Coincidentally Yzerman has followed the same pattern as Holland when the prospect pipeline doesn't pan out and you have cap space to burn just go to the UFA market and overpay for middling talent. Holland's big moves I recall when the prospects coudln't replace Datsyuk/Zetterberg was to supplement the team with Frans Nielsen and Mike Green.

 

[Dubi Doo]

It's always funny seeing Red Wings, Sens, and Sabres fans argue about which teams better, only for them all to miss the playoffs every year. I say this as a Sabres fan!

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Listen to Yzerman's presser introducing him as Wings GM. He didn't beat around the bush.

He did come into a bad situation, and it was going to take some time.

We're in Year 6. There's no reason why the supposed best GM in hockey shouldn't have been able to make them a playoff team by now.

If his last name wasn't Yzerman, he wouldn't have been allowed to remain on the job for this long with no playoff appearances.

Like another poster said in another thread, Yzerman has the longest leash in the NHL by far, and it's showing.

 

[norrisnick]

Coincidentally Yzerman has followed the same pattern as Holland when the prospect pipeline doesn't pan out and you have cap space to burn just go to the UFA market and overpay for middling talent. Holland's big moves I recall when the prospects coudln't replace Datsyuk/Zetterberg was to supplement the team with Frans Nielsen and Mike Green.

Got good lotto picks?

 

[SirKillalot]

We're in Year 6. There's no reason why the supposed best GM in hockey shouldn't have been able to make them a playoff team by now.

If his last name wasn't Yzerman, he wouldn't have been allowed to remain on the job for this long with no playoff appearances.

Like another poster said in another thread, Yzerman has the longest leash in the NHL by far, and it's showing.

Yet you have no compelling argument for why or how they should have been there. They "just should".
Only argument is they were in a spot last year and fell out.

Every time some poster comes up with this "shit" is their argument of they should have signed this guy and that guy and traded their futures for this guy etc. and pretend the situation would magically be better.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

That's the problem. Who decide when a building team (esp. when their rookies are still developing) gets to decide the 'playoff' meter? HFboard trolls? Ignorant posters? You?

Fact is Wings have significantly improved each season and missed the playoffs last season by 0 points. This is without a majority of their top prospects who are tearing up their respective leagues.

That's all well and good, but at some point, incremental improvement isn't good enough anymore.

They also missed the playoffs last season because they completely and utterly imploded in March by heartless and uncompetitive efforts against garbage opponents like Arizona and PIttsburgh. We're seeing that again in so many games this season when they look utterly unprepared and uninterested in playing.

Yzerman has been honest about the rebuild time frame, but everyone wants to ignore it in favor of their 'HOT TAKES'.

It has taken time. There's no reason why the Red Wings shouldn't be a playoff team by Year 6. Nobody else in the NHL would have gotten this long of a leash.

We get to see in real time who become sheep and create an echochamber on their own beliefs while those same people probably live in their parent's basement and are deplorable and jobless.

Always that one poster who inserts their politics into something.

Wings uptick speaks for itself. You don't get to decide how quickly they "should make it".

Lol. We're the paying customers. Until they start making games free for fans if their mindset is "need to keep being patient and not expect any significant improvement for a few more years", there's gonna come a time when even the die-hards stop supporting the product.

 

[norrisnick]

Yet you have no compelling argument for why or how they should have been there. They "just should".
Only argument is they were in a spot last year and fell out.

Every time some poster comes up with this "shit" is their argument of they should have signed this guy and that guy and traded their futures for this guy etc. and pretend the situation would magically be better.

No, it's just people upset so they want someone fired to feel better about it even though all it does is delay the rebuild even further.

If a GM is legitimately f***ing up a roster, no prospects, crippling contracts, etc... yeah, get a new guy in there. But if you're in a good place with core pieces, kids, and cap space... just keep on truckin'. There are no shortcuts unless one falls in your lap (lottery win, UFA or star RFA demanding to play for you).

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Yet you have no compelling argument for why or how they should have been there. They "just should".

Because that's what he was hired for. Detroit could have hired almost anyone else and they'd be right where they are now. Yzerman was viewed as a wizard and was hired to be special - not just another run of the mill GM.

They should be a playoff team by year six under the tutelage of the supposed best GM in hockey. The whole "oh but look at what he came into" isn't a valid excuse anymore. This current product is his team - there aren't any more Ken Holland leftover contracts.

Maybe it's time to take him off the cross and admit he's not the cheat code that he was viewed as.

Only argument is they were in a spot last year and fell out.

Every time some poster comes up with this "shit" is their argument of they should have signed this guy and that guy and traded their futures for this guy etc. and pretend the situation would magically be better.

Name one job in which someone would get to skate by for six years without making any significant improvements.

None of us would. Sports executives should be treated no differently.

 

[norrisnick]

Because that's what he was hired for. Detroit could have hired almost anyone else and they'd be right where they are now. Yzerman was viewed as a wizard and was hired to be special - not just another run of the mill GM.

They should be a playoff team by year six under the tutelage of the supposed best GM in hockey. The whole "oh but look at what he came into" isn't a valid excuse anymore. This current product is his team - there aren't any more Ken Holland leftover contracts.

Maybe it's time to take him off the cross and admit he's not the cheat code that he was viewed as.


Name one job in which someone would get to skate by for six years without making any significant improvements.

None of us would. Sports executives should be treated no differently.

So, any other GM gets the team right where they are now. But your expectations are the root of your current distress. Fix that maybe.

 

[Frobbo]

No depth, and the stars they have are regular stars, not superstars. Whole team is what the kids would call “mid”

I’m a Wild fan so I know what a mid team looks like from a mile away.

I would argue that MN right now is in a much better position than DET. Their prospect pool is superior and the young pieces on their team are better. Kaprizov, Boldy, Rossi, Faber, Erickson Ek are all really solid core pieces. They will have a large amount of cap space to weaponize next year too. I am not a Wild fan but I think they look like more of a contender than the DRW in the near future.

 

[Voight]

With 25 years straight of playoffs maybe this is just the hockey universe balancing its self out.

 

[Voight]

I get wanting to add veteran talent, but the contracts Yzerman gave Chiarot, Copp and Holl were bad from day one.

(tho I see Copp is doing pretty good thus far this year)

 

[SirKillalot]

Because that's what he was hired for. Detroit could have hired almost anyone else and they'd be right where they are now. Yzerman was viewed as a wizard and was hired to be special - not just another run of the mill GM.

They should be a playoff team by year six under the tutelage of the supposed best GM in hockey. The whole "oh but look at what he came into" isn't a valid excuse anymore. This current product is his team - there aren't any more Ken Holland leftover contracts.

Maybe it's time to take him off the cross and admit he's not the cheat code that he was viewed as.

What do you mean is a wizard hired to be special vs. another run of the mill GM?
Is he supposed to magically trade for McDavid and Bedard? And sign all the free agents who wants to sign for contenders when the team haven't reached that status yet?

There has been nothing outspoken from anyone that it won't take anything else but long time. In Tampa it took 10 years from he was hired to when they won, okay they had much better pieces to start with and went to the final 5 years into it, but took another 5 years to get back and win and then win again.

They are winning the absolute majority of the trades.
Drafting well in the 1st round with the options they had.
The rest we are waiting to see, its too early to tell who makes it, several going to be banking on the door in the coming 1-3 years.

Name one job in which someone would get to skate by for six years without making any significant improvements.

None of us would. Sports executives should be treated no differently.

This team has improved every year. Tell me aren't you even paying attention whatsoever?
Look at the points and standings for every year, improved every year.
Drafted players who are progressing well, built one of the best prospect pools in the league.
Traded for good player like DeBrincat. Signed or traded for role-players they traded elsewhere later on for decent amounts in most cases.
Traded away players for much better return than most GM's would get.

So what is your magical cure you think should have been implemented?

 

[SirKillalot]

I get wanting to add veteran talent, but the contracts Yzerman gave Chiarot, Copp and Holl were bad from day one.

(tho I see Copp is doing pretty good thus far this year)

I would agree with Chiarot and Holl.
I think most expected Chiarot to be better, not maybe to the point where he is as good as the contract, but better.
Copp I'd say is the one that has been a downer so far, but this year yes been decent.

But, all these contract it doesn't really matter long term, its part of the plan. Obviously the hope was/is for them to have played better to be trade material for other pieces, whether its players or picks and okay if one stick around great if not no worries, building through youth.

Genuinely the management team saw it will take more years than their contracts unless something magically falls in their lap like some think because they play video games where you can trade scrubs and mid level picks for high end talent.

 

[Maliks PlusMinus]

Because that's what he was hired for. Detroit could have hired almost anyone else and they'd be right where they are now. Yzerman was viewed as a wizard and was hired to be special - not just another run of the mill GM.

They should be a playoff team by year six under the tutelage of the supposed best GM in hockey. The whole "oh but look at what he came into" isn't a valid excuse anymore. This current product is his team - there aren't any more Ken Holland leftover contracts.

Maybe it's time to take him off the cross and admit he's not the cheat code that he was viewed as.


Name one job in which someone would get to skate by for six years without making any significant improvements.

None of us would. Sports executives should be treated no differently.

I’m a restaurant manager and have skated by for five and a half while sales have fallen without doing much of anything to change it.
Should I be worried?
I have taken my franchise backwards but have a leash as long as Stevie Y . My boss reckons I’m doing a good job.

 

[FlyerNutter]

The Philadelphia Flyers philosophy of “rebuilding”

With slightly better scouting

 

[SirKillalot]

Name one job in which someone would get to skate by for six years without making any significant improvements.

None of us would. Sports executives should be treated no differently.

Just to add to that.
Kevin Cheveldayoff has been GM of the Jets since 2011 and haven't sniffed anything close to a Cup-success. And they started from a better starting point. Same with Rob Blake in LA. Lou Lamariello with the Islanders. Could put Doug Armstrong here too besides the Cup-run done absolutely nothing.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I’m a restaurant manager and have skated by for five and a half while sales have fallen without doing much of anything to change it.
Should I be worried?
I have taken my franchise backwards but have a leash as long as Stevie Y . My boss reckons I’m doing a good job.

The Wings have improved in the standings every year Yzerman has been GM, so you're doing this wrong.

 

[Geezer WC]

(tho I see Copp is doing pretty good thus far this year)

Sniping them top shelf...