Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Pavels Dog]

The Leafs got stuck in a similar position with guys like JVR/Kadri/Kessel/Phaneuf, great complimentary pieces but if you are expecting those guys to lead you anywhere, you are going to be let down.

At no point in that era did Toronto have anything close to the amount of 23-and-under talent Detroit has. People dismiss the entire prospect pool because there's no shoe-in superstar there, but top-end talent hasn't been the problem in Detroit for the past few years.

 

[Leafshater67]

At no point in that era did Toronto have anything close to the amount of 23-and-under talent Detroit has. People dismiss the entire prospect pool because there's no shoe-in superstar there, but top-end talent hasn't been the problem in Detroit for the past few years.

It hasn’t? Who’s really a top end talent on there comparable to Matthews, Marner and Nylander? Seider, yeah. Edvinsson is yet to be proven and Raymond is a step down from Marner or Matthews.

The red wings lack star power because they got crappy draft luck tbh. Rebuilding relies on some degree of luck. I think taking guys like Danielson or Kasper were the “safe picks” which is totally fine and I agree with wanting to have a lot of options but they don’t have any truly elite top end offensive talent in the system. Toronto did and has done nothing with it

 

[Pavels Dog]

It hasn’t? Who’s really a top end talent on there comparable to Matthews, Marner and Nylander? Seider, yeah. Edvinsson is yet to be proven and Raymond is a step down from Marner or Matthews.

The point is moreso that Detroit would be a pretty solid if not even good team if they improved their 2nd line and 2nd D pairing. A true #1 goalie would also be massive.
All the focus is on top end talent but it’s not Larkin that needs replacing, it’s Copp, Chiarot and Petry. For example Seider-Edvinsson looks like a potentially elite top pairing, that’s not the problem.

 

[HFpapi]

Seider, Larkin, and Raymond (and to a lesser extent DeBrincat) are all great players but they are literally the only players of substance or of note on the roster and for a team that's been rebuilding for as long as the wings have, that's unacceptable.

It's not even like any of the aforementioned players are top 20-25 in the league either. If you want to get by being top heavy you better have McDavid/Draisaitl or Mackinnon Makar etc.

Beyond that, guys like Kane and Tarasenko are better names than they are players at this stage and the rest of the roster are dime a dozen players.

It remains to be seen what Edvinsson can become but they basically need he and ASP to become really big-time players for this core to have legs or they can find themselves in a Buffalo Sabres situation where you cycle through an entire rebuild with zero results before needing to start again.

 

[featherhawk]

signing Kane a second time was an error.

 

[Bank Shot]

Red Wings were second in the league in shooting % 5v5 last season.

Red Wings fans thought that the jump in the standings was a sign of a team on the rise.

Math thought that the Red Wings overachieved and would fall back down.

So far Math is winning this debate.

Either way it's all Holland's fault.

 

[NVious]

At no point in that era did Toronto have anything close to the amount of 23-and-under talent Detroit has. People dismiss the entire prospect pool because there's no shoe-in superstar there, but top-end talent hasn't been the problem in Detroit for the past few years.

Sure, trust the plan, just 5 more years of development.

 

[jbeck5]

It's difficult to sleep at night, then I remember the 4 cups. But seriously this is a team that refuses to toss the towel for a season and finishes in mid draft position. They really need to clean house and become the 'dead things' again for a few seasons. I'm not sure they can return to form with the current path. More and more difficult to luck into players like Lidstrom, Fedorov and low draft picks these days.

This is my thinking too. I agree with leaf fan earlier as well.

Sens fan here, and if the sens don't make the playoffs again this year, I'd rather blow it up and try again. I'm willing to be patient with my team for this year as they are playing good hockey so let's see where it goes.

But this isn't about the sens but rather that strategy.

The worst thing you can do is be good enough to not be in the basement but not good enough for the playoffs. Obviously you might be there for a year on an upswing or downswing, but you absolutely do not want to be there several seasons in a row.

You need to figure out "does this young core have the potential to win a championship one day?" And if the answer is no, it's better not to waste everyone's time being mid for 5 years before you decide to do the rebuild. Do it right away and do it right.

The wings did like the sens where they tried to improve too quickly. They got bad luck when tanking and ended up with not so great picks...what they should have done is kept tanking until they got those picks...not go after vets and kane and debrincat and Perron and Tarasenko etc. these guys will make it so Detroit is out of the basement but not ever good enough to win a cup down the road. Just ensures they stay middling... exactly like I'm scared of my own team.

You should want to either suck or be good. No in between. It's important to recognize when you're in between, you're in no man's land and you need to get out ASAP. If you can't get out by improving, get out by trading away your assets for picks and going for that superstar draft pick because once you get them, you're likely a decent team for like 15 years

 

[zizbuka]

Finally their downfall!!

I am sick of Yzerman, Federov, Zetterburg, Datsyuk.

You're a Sharks fan, you should be sick of hockey...........

 

[Pavels Dog]

Sure, trust the plan, just 5 more years of development.

So much hyperbole. Team was less than 1 point from playoffs last season. We're 14 games into this one.

 

[Finnen]

Poor overseeing from management to put Husso in for the NYR game tonight too!

Lyon are our number one.

 

[Iggys Dome]

Sign McDavid when hes a FA in about a year and half. All will be well

 

[Finnen]

Sign McDavid when hes a FA in about a year and half. All will be well

Larkin is significantly more normally choose.

 

[Sky04]

The "great" Steve Yzerman.

 

[Finnen]

I want else try center Rasmussen like a possible first center but the Detroit coach never gives the chance.

So I think new address of Rasmussen.

The Detroit coach claims Larkin like first center.

 

[ShakenNotStirred]

It's difficult to sleep at night, then I remember the 4 cups. But seriously this is a team that refuses to toss the towel for a season and finishes in mid draft position. They really need to clean house and become the 'dead things' again for a few seasons. I'm not sure they can return to form with the current path. More and more difficult to luck into players like Lidstrom, Fedorov and low draft picks these days.

Because lottery luck will be in their favor this time????

They did what you described and the best they got was raymond and mo.

 

[Dotter]

Seider, Larkin, and Raymond (and to a lesser extent DeBrincat) are all great players but they are literally the only players of substance or of note on the roster

Tell me you don't have any clue what you're talking about without telling my you have no clue what you're talking about.

You are an OTT fan? You do realize Edvinsson is better than Sanderson? Are you saying Sanderson isn't a "player of substance"?

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I think there's a bit of denial going on among wings fans. Checking their board they're still blaming Holland for the state of the team in 2024. It's been six years, this is fully Yzerman's team at this point.

Fact is rebuilds fail more often than not. I have a feeling they're going to need to rebuild the rebuild. The talent they have is going to be starting to decline as soon as they're ready to compete (Larkin, Debrincat). I know people will say have patience but I think it's actually the wings that lacked patience and tried to exit the rebuild early. Had they tanked the Bedard year instead of signing mediocre vets they almost assuredly have that elite offensive piece in one of Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson, or Michkov.

At this point it seems like they're waiting ten years for players to develop that are dime a dozen anyway. They look like they might top out as a Nashville or Minnesota at best. And the old Minnesota, the new one is quite talented.

And yes I know the penguins are in for a long painful rebuild themselves.

 

[norrisnick]

Red Wings were second in the league in shooting % 5v5 last season.

Red Wings fans thought that the jump in the standings was a sign of a team on the rise.

Math thought that the Red Wings overachieved and would fall back down.

So far Math is winning this debate.

Either way it's all Holland's fault.

And this season the Wings are 3rd from the bottom of the league in shooting % 5v5.

Shouldn't math tell us they aren't as bad as they've been thus far this season?

 

[Fantomas]

Let's face it, Yzerman lucked out on Kucherov.

 

[Grifter3511]

Larkin is significantly more normally choose.

yes he is.

 

[GMR]

Can Yzerman get a bit of criticism yet or is he still infallible?

Yzerman is constantly criticized on the Wings' forum. Especially by younger fans who did not grow up idolizing him. Opposing fans probably don't visit the Wings' board. But if you do visit the Wings board, you'll see that what I'm saying is correct. He is NOT infallible.

But yes, some Wings fans don't like it when opposing teams' fans disparage him.

 

[Turin]

Yzerman's "ok lets get competitive finally" signings all turned out to be bad, basically. They propelled the Red Wings out of the 9th circle of hell into purgatory at significant cost. Guys like Copp, Chiarot. Holl etc just ended up being terrible and also expensive.

 

[Juha]

Fact is rebuilds fail more often than not. I have a feeling they're going to need to rebuild the rebuild. The talent they have is going to be starting to decline as soon as they're ready to compete (Larkin, Debrincat).

I remember Oilers fan joking that they were headed towards a double-dip rebuild back in the day, before they drafted McDavid. It might be that we are looking at the same thing here. Unless one of these prospects really takes of, or Wings somehow become the 1995 Devils, Wings will be mediocre hockey team at best. We are like Iginla era Flames, without Jerome Iginla. Oh and without Kiprusoff also (for now).

 

[barkovcanfinnish]

Their center depth is lacking.