Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Rzombo4 prez]

They looked awful and listless this weekend. What a disaster Yzerman has been

Sadly, those were two of their better games of the year.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

They should have never traded Dionne. Yet, here we are, 40 plus years later and they're still spiraling.

 

[LarKing]

I mean if you guys are happy never making the playoffs again that’s cool. Just don’t be shocked that the rest of us never quite understand why Yzerman is considered some sort of managerial genius.

Where did I say any of this in my post? Did you reply to the wrong person here?

Yzerman has been questioned since essentially his first move drafting Seider. That's why these "when will Yzerman start to be criticized" type posts and threads are funny to me. There's a minority of Wings fans who think he's a god and they happen to be the most vocal. Every fanbase has these. They're called delusional homers.

I know a lot of posters on this site love to see a few posts and act like the entire fanbase shares the same opinion, but a lot of us are quite critical of Yzerman.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Wings core and 'future' core is like 19 - 23, with Larkin being the outlier at 28 years old of their core group. Looking at Canucks roster, their core is 26 - 31.

Where were the Canucks in the standings when their core groupe was 19-23? They were putting up 69 and 73 points in the season. One could argue Detroit is ahead of Canucks in their respective stage of the rebuild.

I don't think using Canucks is a fair example.

This is the double standard that makes your eternal optimistic schtick grating. You repeatedly assume the absolute best case for everything Wing related and worst case for everyone else. Fine, you're a homer, many people are, but then it's the condescension, arrogance and superiority complex behind all of it.

Let's stick to facts. The Sedins era in Vancouver, and the Datsyuk/Zetterberg era in Detroit ended roughly around the same times. Vancouver made the post-season in 2019-20 and won the first round series with St. Louis. They missed the Playoffs three seasons and then made the playoff last season and won a first round series with Nashville (and went 7 games with Edmonton).

The Wings have missed the Playoffs eight consecutive seasons. Vancouver has a Norris Winner and when healthy, a Vezina runner-up, and forwards that are 15th and 16th in scoring since the 2022-23 season through now. Detroit has none of those things. In no objective way is Detroit "ahead" of Vancouver.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

It is good to know that the Wings still live rent free in so many heads.

 

[BHD]

Are you saying the Wings have good players but are missing the guys who are key to winning? The star players?

They don't have the horses to compete is what I'm saying.

 

[Fatass]

Where did I say any of this in my post? Did you reply to the wrong person here?

Yzerman has been questioned since essentially his first move drafting Seider. That's why these "when will Yzerman start to be criticized" type posts and threads are funny to me. There's a minority of Wings fans who think he's a god and they happen to be the most vocal. Every fanbase has these. They're called delusional homers.

I know a lot of posters on this site love to see a few posts and act like the entire fanbase shares the same opinion, but a lot of us are quite critical of Yzerman.

Yzerman did a good job in Tampa. Still another GM needed to come in and get the club to the next level, which for them was playoff success. Yzerman has not done a good job in Detroit though. For these current Wings the next level is just getting into the playoffs. like in Tampa, it appears Yzermsn would need to be replaced for his club to get to their next level.

 

[Legion34]

Hiring a GM who made his rep in a tax free state and expecting to get discounts

 

[Fatass]

They don't have the horses to compete is what I'm saying.

It sounds like you’re suggesting they have some solid plow horses but lack a the thoroughbreds. I agree with that.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Hiring a GM who made his rep in a tax free state and expecting to get discounts

Rep is mostly made with draft picks like Vasilevskiy/Kucherov/Point/Palat/Cirelli/T. Johnson (as undrafted free agent) and trades for Sergachev and Cernak as prospects imo. It's good scouting, no doubt, but there's a lot of luck there as well. Not to mention they had franchise cornerstones in Stamkos and Hedman already there.

 

[Czechboy]

Wings core and 'future' core is like 19 - 23, with Larkin being the outlier at 28 years old of their core group. Looking at Canucks roster, their core is 26 - 31.

Where were the Canucks in the standings when their core groupe was 19-23? They were putting up 69 and 73 points in the season. One could argue Detroit is ahead of Canucks in their respective stage of the rebuild.

I don't think using Canucks is a fair example.

If you don't consider a 30 point increase from one season to the next a substantial increase. Or going from not making playoffs to winning a round and going to game 7 in round 2. Then I don't know how else to explain substantial increase from season to season.

 

[Dotter]

The Wings have missed the Playoffs eight consecutive seasons. Vancouver has a Norris Winner and when healthy, a Vezina runner-up, and forwards that are 15th and 16th in scoring since the 2022-23 season through now. Detroit has none of those things. In no objective way is Detroit "ahead" of Vancouver.

The double standard here is hilarious. Why didn't Yzerman draft Hughes, the norris winner? Could it be because he wasn't here to draft said player? Ken Holland whiffed that one. But let's blame Yzerman.

Demko was drafted in 2014. While Ken Holland was drafting Chase Perry for DRWs and Yzerman (who didn't need a goalie) drafted Brayden Point for TBL.

Comparing Canucks linear growth to Detroit is HILARIOUS! Canucks core is the same age as TML's core. Leafs and Canucks are on the same trajectory. One could argue Canucks are trailing where they should be at in their stage of success vs Leafs.

If you don't consider a 30 point increase from one season to the next a substantial increase. Or going from not making playoffs to winning a round and going to game 7 in round 2. Then I don't know how else to explain substantial increase from season to season.

Based on the age of Canucks core, they were trailing where they should be. So their jump was 'late'. Wings are ahead of Canucks at their respective stage of trajectory... basked on the age of their core.

I hope Detroit is better than where Canucks are in the next 5 to 7 years. I'd consider Canucks an utter failure. They should be up there with the Leafs at their stage... and they are not.

EDIT: I guess Canucks had more points than Leafs last season, so I guess they are finally in their wheelhouse. Can they sustain it or was it an outlier?

 

[DJN21]

With Seider and Raymond already locked up for a long time, an accidental tank season is probably their best case scenario longterm. Coming out of the tank too early and getting Kasper/Danielson/Brandsegg-Nygard with their own picks instead of players more high end was probably the biggest mistake. Reminds me of when Buffalo acquired O’Reilly and pulled themselves out of a tank position but never made the next step.

The Sabres got eichel at 2, Dahlin at 1, Power at 1...before that Reinhart at 2....when did they pull themselves out of tank position? Asking for all our fans? Trading ROR for Tage did more to pull us out of it than anything.....

 

[Pavels Dog]

For an actual response, let’s check in on the players that matter for the Wings:

Larkin: 50+ goal pace
Raymond: near-PPG pace
Seider: #1D
Edvinsson: looking legit on top-pairing
Kasper: Strong two-way player already
Cossa: Dominating AHL
Sandin-Pellikka: Record pace in SHL
etc.

 

[Czechboy]

The double standard here is hilarious. Why didn't Yzerman draft Hughes, the norris winner? Could it be because he wasn't here to draft said player? Ken Holland whiffed that one. But let's blame Yzerman.

Demko was drafted in 2014. While Ken Holland was drafting Chase Perry for DRWs and Yzerman (who didn't need a goalie) drafted Brayden Point for TBL.

Comparing Canucks linear growth to Detroit is HILARIOUS! Canucks core is the same age as TML's core. Leafs and Canucks are on the same trajectory. One could argue Canucks are trailing where they should be at in their stage of success vs Leafs.



Based on the age of Canucks core, they were trailing where they should be. So their jump was 'late'. Wings are ahead of Canucks at their respective stage of trajectory... basked on the age of their core.

I hope Detroit is better than where Canucks are in the next 5 to 7 years. I'd consider Canucks an utter failure. They should be up there with the Leafs at their stage... and they are not.

EDIT: I guess Canucks had more points than Leafs last season, so I guess they are finally in their wheelhouse. Can they sustain it or was it an outlier?

You are not reading what I'm writing. So I'm moving on.

 

[VeteranPresence]

For an actual response, let’s check in on the players that matter for the Wings:

Larkin: 50+ goal pace
Raymond: near-PPG pace
Seider: #1D
Edvinsson: looking legit on top-pairing
Kasper: Strong two-way player already
Cossa: Dominating AHL
Sandin-Pellikka: Record pace in SHL
etc.

Meanwhile, in the real world, the Red Wings are a bottom ten team again.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Meanwhile, in the real world, the Red Wings are a bottom ten team again.

Will you change your entire opinion if they win 1-2 games and jump to basically a playoff spot? Are you that fickle? Sports must be very stressful for you to follow.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The Sabres got eichel at 2, Dahlin at 1, Power at 1...before that Reinhart at 2....when did they pull themselves out of tank position?

2015-16 and 2016-17. They improved by about a billion points in the 2015 offseason. Look at who they took in the Draft vs. who they missed (because already drafted).

 

[Dotter]

You are not reading what I'm writing. So I'm moving on.

I did. Let me be clear: Canucks were underachieving based on the age of their core. They are FINALLY playing where they should be. So yes, the sudden spike was because they were slumping, not because they jumped from Detroit's stage of rebuild to a 109 point season. They should have been making the playoffs sooner, but only made it 2 times the past 9 years.

Hope that is clear for you.

 

[VeteranPresence]

Will you change your entire opinion if they win 1-2 games and jump to basically a playoff spot? Are you that fickle? Sports must be very stressful for you to follow.

“If instead of a bad team they were a good team would you change your opinion????” No shit, Sherlock.

If the Red Wings finally break their multi-year playoff drought this season then sure, I will give them and Yzerman due credit. Until then, you live in a delulu dream world with “50 goal” Dylan Larkin, two number one defensemen and stars in waiting at every other position.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I did. Let me be clear: Canucks were underachieving based on the age of their core. They are FINALLY playing where they should be. So yes, the sudden spike was because they were slumping, not because they jumped from Detroit's stage of rebuild to a 109 point season. They should have been making the playoffs sooner, but only made it 2 times the past 9 years.

Hope that is clear for you.

Again, let's be objective. Red Wings forward core today is Larkin (28), Raymond (22), DeBrincat (27). Their secondary pieces are Kane (36), Compher (29) and Copp (30).

They are younger on D with the core piece of Seider (23) and secondary pieces Edvinsson (21) and Chiarot (33).

Goalies are 37, 32 and 29. Nobody that is a "core" piece.

Everyone else not mentioned that you're likely referring to as "core' is more appropriately called a "prospect", some of whom may become "core".

 

[BHD]

Even if Larkin gets 50 this season (while shooting 22%), his career high before that was 33.

I thought their forward group was fine heading into the season. It's not the best, but it could get the job done... if the defense (other than Seider) wasn't so bad. So yeah, it comes down to poor coaching and bad defense. I think they'd have a couple more wins - and maybe be closer to the playoffs - if wasn't for those two areas.

 

[Pavels Dog]

“If instead of a bad team they were a good team would you change your opinion????” No shit, Sherlock.

If the Red Wings finally break their multi-year playoff drought this season then sure, I will give them and Yzerman due credit. Until then, you live in a delulu dream world with “50 goal” Dylan Larkin, two number one defensemen and stars in waiting at every other position.

It’s been 14 games. If your judgement is based on where they are after 82 then wait until April to comment.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Lock this 7 year old thread up

 

[Dotter]

Again, let's be objective. Red Wings forward core today is Larkin (28), Raymond (22), DeBrincat (27). Their secondary pieces are Kane (36), Compher (29) and Copp (30).

They are younger on D with the core piece of Seider (23) and secondary pieces Edvinsson (21) and Chiarot (33).

Goalies are 37, 32 and 29. Nobody that is a "core" piece.

Everyone else not mentioned that you're likely referring to as "core' is more appropriately called a "prospect", some of whom may become "core".

The older guys you listed as "core" are placeholders aside from Larkin and maybe Debrincat. Sieder, Raymond and Edvinsson are still developing. Below is the bright future of the core:

Danielson (20) - your boy Bedard says he was the hardest player to play against.
Axel Sandin Pellikka (19)
Kasper (20)
Cossa (21)
Augustine (19)
Michael Brandsegg Nygard (18)
---

Lombardi (21) looking pretty offensively solid.
Buchelnikov (21) tearing up the KHL.

Wings still rank top 5 in the prospect pool.