Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Hisch13r]

The Yzerman Derangement Syndrome is on full display here.

Rangers thread, 20+ pages.
Sabres (who are doing way worse with more talent) only has 20+ pages.
This thread is at 70+ pages and the other one almost went 100.

And with some of the takes in this thread, alot of you should probably have jobs in the NHL if you know right now that every pick Yzerman has made wont amount to anything without them even playing in the NHL yet. And while the signings havent been ideal, they were never meant to make them Cup contenders while theyre here. Guys like Copp, Compher, Chiarot, Holl, etc werent signed to make them contenders, theyre placeholders until the prospects that he is letting develop in the AHL or overseas are ready for the show.

The difference is Rangers fans and Sabres fans know where their teams are at. They aren't in abject delusion like Wings fans are so they don't keep trying to debate that "everything's great"

 

[newfy]

It will suck in the short term but you guys need at least 1 more lottery pick and a new face behind the bench

I've said this year could actually help long term. It happened in Tampa where they randomly had that year they drafted Drouin, who got turned into Sergachev. There's a strong top 5 in this years draft, grab a high end forward and the rebuild looks much better

So yeah you have absolutely nothing to offer yet from that nothing just out of nowhere is going to come out Detroits version of Barkov/Kucherov/Matthews

Damm that’s a great plan! Please don’t ever change

Do you realize that you might as well trade Larkin then? You have absolutely no anwers to simple question and Larkin is already 28y. If your plan is just waiting for a miracle Larkin will be past his prime so might as well trade him

The first and second overall pick from that list have a combined 19 seasons played with one cup between them and 2 long playoff runs total between them. The late round pick made by Yzerman is the one adding cups, not sure that's the dunk you think it is.

I feel like both sides can be correct at the same time.

It's true that Detroit has generally done a good job drafting in the past five years and has very interesting pieces coming up.

But it can also be true that their current situation has been poorly utilized by Yzerman, which overrelies on a ton of unproven assets to correct what seems to be a fairly significant gap.

At some point Yzerman will have to make good moves to surround the good first round drafting, but so far it really hasn't happened, and it's not for lack of spending money.

This is too sane for this thread. But its correct. The pro scouting in Detroit has been bad, the UFAs they've brought in have somehow all shit the bed this year, when they weren't even great before this. They also have one of the best prospect pools in the league and a lot of help on them way.

You add those prospects, and a UFA or 2 that actually pulls their weight in the next couple years, its easy to see how Detroit could be competitive. Adding a Misa/Martone/Hagens this year would help a lot with seeing that though

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

Gotta feel bad for the Sabres.
2 goals called back against the Leafs

Last night vs the Bruins, that first goal is more than likely goaltender interference if Ruff challenges that.

Get a good offside review to take off the Bruins go ahead goal

Couple mins later Dman pushes Brazeau into Reimer and Bruins score as Reimer can’t get into position

*meant to post this in the Buffalo losing streak thread

 

[GMR]

The difference is Rangers fans and Sabres fans know where their teams are at. They aren't in abject delusion like Wings fans are so they don't keep trying to debate that "everything's great"

Wings fans don’t think that.

Browse on the Wings board for one minute and you’ll see how we really feel.

 

[RedHawkDown]

He’s very good yes. Not sure he’s really a top D on a contending team yet.

He has top 20 defensive metrics in the NHL with by far the hardest deployment in the league. Thats a top pairing D.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I've said this year could actually help long term.

Adding a Misa/Martone/Hagens this year would help a lot with seeing that though

Many people have been saying this for multiple years, met with refutations of "mid-tier UFAs signed to middle dollar, middle term contracts had nothing to do with pushing Detroit to the middle tier, Larkin/Seider/Raymond are too good and make the team tank-proof, tanking would be bad because it would mean a losing culture for the kids".

Seems some holdouts have come around to the thinking that Detroit does need to add a high-end piece via top of the draft.

 

[Dotter]

Yet here is your team, rebuilding without ever actually rebuilding. You have two good young players

^ here's where you lost me. You must be watching 2020 DRWs. Times have changed, hoss.

 

[Czechboy]

Of all the people that live in this thread just to try to dunk on Detroit, I think my favorite is Czech guy who is just pissy that we traded Hronek and Zadina was a bust. The peak of petty.

You're very confused. I haven't mentioned either name since the season began. I'm very much on record as saying Hronek is getting paid very well to be on a playoff team and I'm glad he's gone. I also don't think Detroit made mistakes with Zadina. He was clearly a bust. I blame him and not Detroit. Sucks as I was positive he'd be a 40 goal scorer. No shortages of me admitting I was wrong about him (or Kaut, Zboril, Hajek).

I'm here for the takes! And they are amazing and never let me down.

Larkin is better than Eichel
Ed is already a top pairing NHL dman after 40 NHL games
Seider will not be 25 next season because he will be 24 at the start of the season and that's how age works
The core of Raymond, Seider, Larkin and Ed is more than enough to buiild a cup around
Let's roll out 6 rookies next year
Kasper is playing 'outstanding'
Every single player drafted will be an NHL player. Some Superstars and some will be depth but they're all making the show!
Yzerman wins every redraft (Kasper ain't keeping up with his ranking)
It's okay to suck this year because it's part of the plan
This is all because Yzerman has had no 'lottery luck'
St. Louis won without stars and we will too
Who will win the Vezina first - Cossa or Augustine?
Who will win the Norris first - Asp, Seider or Ed?
Why do people keep posting about us, how many threads do we need?lol
How do you know 'insert player drafted in rounds 2 to 7' won't be a superstar like Kucherov was?

This place is amazing!

 

[LarKing]

Wings fans don’t think that.

Browse on the Wings board for one minute and you’ll see how we really feel.

I tried mentioning this to several posters acting like the entire fanbase is saying these things when it's really 1-3 posters they're arguing with. But I think being able to think our entire fanbase is delusional based off one post someone reads is just too fun of an opportunity to pass up for many in this thread

 

[Czechboy]

I tried mentioning this to several posters acting like the entire fanbase is saying these things when it's really 1-3 posters they're arguing with. But I think being able to think our entire fanbase is delusional based off one post someone reads is just too fun of an opportunity to pass up for many in this thread

FTR.. I totally agree with you. I'm here for the apologists that have wandered to the mains. I'm positive they do not represent the average Wing's fans.

 

[deca guard]

what many cant grasp concerning yzermans ufa signings is that yzerman did not want to create a middle of the standings roster to just get into playoffs at the cost of moving away from a shot at a high pick ! quit saying yzermans pro scouting sux , because i guarantee STEVE **** YZERMAN has been in the nhl 40 years and knew the talent level of every ufa he signed ! how dense can you be !!!!!!!!! his pro scout do not decide yzermans signings , he does . do you actually think yzerman thought chariot/hol/copp/etc were going to seriously improve red wings ???? he absolutely did not think that and i guarantee he knows the talent level of nhlers better than anybody on this board ! he did not want to wast future long term cap on better ufa to just get in only to get crushed and draft back in the pack , hes purposely feathered the gas peddle by signing iffy ufa to keep getting chances at drafting better players as its THE ONLY WAY TO BUILD A CHAMPIONSHIP DEPTH CHART ! but keep getting high on yourself by thinking you know more about nhl than yzerman , your just making fools of yourselves

and keep ignoring :
SEIDER
RAYMOND
EDVINSSON
three pix yzerman absolutely hammered to create an elite new red wing core

 

[BB88]

I've said this year could actually help long term. It happened in Tampa where they randomly had that year they drafted Drouin, who got turned into Sergachev. There's a strong top 5 in this years draft, grab a high end forward and the rebuild looks much better


The first and second overall pick from that list have a combined 19 seasons played with one cup between them and 2 long playoff runs total between them. The late round pick made by Yzerman is the one adding cups, not sure that's the dunk you think it is.


This is too sane for this thread. But its correct. The pro scouting in Detroit has been bad, the UFAs they've brought in have somehow all shit the bed this year, when they weren't even great before this. They also have one of the best prospect pools in the league and a lot of help on them way.

You add those prospects, and a UFA or 2 that actually pulls their weight in the next couple years, its easy to see how Detroit could be competitive. Adding a Misa/Martone/Hagens this year would help a lot with seeing that though

Mackinnon- Rantanen
Barkov- Tkachuk
Point- Kucherov
Toews- Kane
Bergeron- Marchand
Crosby- Malkin
Ovy- Kuz
Eichel- Stone

History definitely suggests a franchise forward isn’t a must..

Detroit fans love to live in fantasy land

 

[Golden_Jet]

what many cant grasp concerning yzermans ufa signings is that yzerman did not want to create a middle of the standings roster to just get into playoffs at the cost of moving away from a shot at a high pick ! quit saying yzermans pro scouting sux , because i guarantee STEVE **** YZERMAN has been in the nhl 40 years and knew the talent level of every ufa he signed ! how dense can you be !!!!!!!!! his pro scout do not decide yzermans signings , he does . do you actually think yzerman thought chariot/hol/copp/etc were going to seriously improve red wings ???? he absolutely did not think that and i guarantee he knows the talent level of nhlers better than anybody on this board ! he did not want to wast future long term cap on better ufa to just get in only to get crushed and draft back in the pack , hes purposely feathered the gas peddle by signing iffy ufa to keep getting chances at drafting better players as its THE ONLY WAY TO BUILD A CHAMPIONSHIP DEPTH CHART ! but keep getting high on yourself by thinking you know more about nhl than yzerman , your just making fools of yourselves

and keep ignoring :
SEIDER
RAYMOND
EDVINSSON
three pix yzerman absolutely hammered to create an elite new red wing core

This is satire right, you can’t be serious, SY doesn’t want his team to improve, year over year. Funny.

 

[cjm502]

Imagine going online to comment on a team you are not even a fan of and trying to dump on their fanbase being part of your daily routine. I definitely don't have enough time in my life to obsess over another teams fans nor do I even remotely care that much about any other team

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

You guys seem really bored.

 

[Frobbo]

what many cant grasp concerning yzermans ufa signings is that yzerman did not want to create a middle of the standings roster to just get into playoffs at the cost of moving away from a shot at a high pick ! quit saying yzermans pro scouting sux , because i guarantee STEVE **** YZERMAN has been in the nhl 40 years and knew the talent level of every ufa he signed ! how dense can you be !!!!!!!!! his pro scout do not decide yzermans signings , he does . do you actually think yzerman thought chariot/hol/copp/etc were going to seriously improve red wings ???? he absolutely did not think that and i guarantee he knows the talent level of nhlers better than anybody on this board ! he did not want to wast future long term cap on better ufa to just get in only to get crushed and draft back in the pack , hes purposely feathered the gas peddle by signing iffy ufa to keep getting chances at drafting better players as its THE ONLY WAY TO BUILD A CHAMPIONSHIP DEPTH CHART ! but keep getting high on yourself by thinking you know more about nhl than yzerman , your just making fools of yourselves

and keep ignoring :
SEIDER
RAYMOND
EDVINSSON
three pix yzerman absolutely hammered to create an elite new red wing core

One of the most delusional takes I have seen, and that is saying a lot. If SY KNEW he was signing trash so he could maintain a higher draft status, why not sign cheaper trash and weaponize the cap space? Changing the narrative to fit the results is what this smacks of. Just like saying tanking for a high draft pick instead of making the playoffs this year was ALWAYS the plan. Yeesh,

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

what many cant grasp concerning yzermans ufa signings is that yzerman did not want to create a middle of the standings roster to just get into playoffs at the cost of moving away from a shot at a high pick ! quit saying yzermans pro scouting sux , because i guarantee STEVE **** YZERMAN has been in the nhl 40 years and knew the talent level of every ufa he signed ! how dense can you be !!!!!!!!! his pro scout do not decide yzermans signings , he does . do you actually think yzerman thought chariot/hol/copp/etc were going to seriously improve red wings ???? he absolutely did not think that and i guarantee he knows the talent level of nhlers better than anybody on this board ! he did not want to wast future long term cap on better ufa to just get in only to get crushed and draft back in the pack , hes purposely feathered the gas peddle by signing iffy ufa to keep getting chances at drafting better players as its THE ONLY WAY TO BUILD A CHAMPIONSHIP DEPTH CHART ! but keep getting high on yourself by thinking you know more about nhl than yzerman , your just making fools of yourselves

and keep ignoring :
SEIDER
RAYMOND
EDVINSSON
three pix yzerman absolutely hammered to create an elite new red wing core

This guy makes me realize how heaven's gate was possible.

 

[TKB]

Imagine going online to comment on a team you are not even a fan of and trying to dump on their fanbase being part of your daily routine. I definitely don't have enough time in my life to obsess over another teams fans nor do I even remotely care that much about any other team

It is just an amazing sight to behold, but whatever makes some of these posters happy I guess.

 

[nbwingsfan]

To me every team needs a player to build around, otherwise you are really setting a limit on your ceiling

Florida, Barkov- Tkachuk/Reinhart
Toronto, Matthews- Marner
Tampa, Point- Kucherov
Boston, Bergeron- Marchand/Pasta

Just the most dominant teams from the Atlantic the last 10 seasons

But sure I’m speaking nonsense by questioning Detroits ceiling

Okay so teams like Washington, Vegas, Carolina, Jets, Stars and Kings have no hope, right?

Never mind that one of the teams you just mentioned has never made it past the 2nd round, and one has one cup 14 years ago

 

[nbwingsfan]

He has top 20 defensive metrics in the NHL with by far the hardest deployment in the league. Thats a top pairing D.

If we had a top 20D in the NHL to go with another top pair D, we wouldn’t be looking at the bottom of the standings right now.

He’ll get there I’m sure, but I don’t think he’s there yet. And being a top 5 D in the entire NHL is some serious homers by that poster

 

[RedHawkDown]

If we had a top 20D in the NHL to go with another top pair D, we wouldn’t be looking at the bottom of the standings right now.

He’ll get there I’m sure, but I don’t think he’s there yet. And being a top 5 D in the entire NHL is some serious homers by that poster

I didn't say hes a top 20D, he doesn't have the offense (yet) for that. He is absolutely a top 20 defensive D in the NHL, the numbers do not lie.

We are at the bottom of the standings because we have 4 AHL D in addition to 2 top pairing D. This is also why our top D play the hardest minutes in the NHL, because otherwise we would literally be dead last. Ed was out last game and you saw what happened.

The team being bad doesn't mean it can't have good players. Mack Celebrini is a 1C but the Sharks still suck. Bedard is elite but Chicago still sucks. Guenther is a top scoring winger but Utah still sucks. Werenski is having a Norris-level season but CBJ still sucks. Etc.

Raymond is a 1st line winger, Larkin is a good/average 1C, Debrincat is a top 6 winger. Apart from that, every single one of our forwards ranges from decent 3rd liner (Copp/Ras/Kasper) to 4th liner/PP specialist (Tarasenko/Kane/Compher) to AHL tier (the rest).

Seider and Ed are 1D, and after that, every single one of our D are not NHL level. Maybe Chiarot could be a decent 6D on a competent team. That is why we suck. We have absolutely zero depth beyond one line and one D pairing. Everyone else sucks, really bad, or is a 20 rookie (Kasper).

 

[BB88]

Okay so teams like Washington, Vegas, Carolina, Jets, Stars and Kings have no hope, right?

Never mind that one of the teams you just mentioned has never made it past the 2nd round, and one has one cup 14 years ago

Those 4 teams have dominated the Atlantic the last 10 years& have Detroits number

But keep living in your fantasy land and watch Detroit go nowhere. Better for the rest of the teams, atleast 1 team you don’t have to take seriously

 

[RedHawkDown]

Those 4 teams have dominated the Atlantic the last 10 years& have Detroits number

But keep living in your fantasy land and watch Detroit go nowhere. Better for the rest of the teams, atleast 1 team you don’t have to take seriously

I don't get it. You didn't answer the question at all, and just went back to calling Detroit shit.

Yes, Detroit is shit. Can you address the point he's making, though? That none of those listed teams currently have the elite/franchise forward that you're describing?

 

[Dotter]

So yeah you have absolutely nothing to offer yet from that nothing just out of nowhere is going to come out Detroits version of Barkov/Kucherov/Matthews

Damm that’s a great plan! Please don’t ever change

Do you realize that you might as well trade Larkin then? You have absolutely no anwers to simple question and Larkin is already 28y. If your plan is just waiting for a miracle Larkin will be past his prime so might as well trade him

Maybe Wings bottom out and draft top 3 this upcoming draft and get their franchise player. Would that solve your questions?

I'm personally not worried about it, but I would like to see Yzerman add some more franchise top tier talent. Better to have too many than not enough!

 

[Dotter]

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[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Just atrocious drafting outside of their high picks in those two drafts. All those excess picks from the 2019 and 2020 draft with diddly squat to show for it.

Look around the league and you'll nobody drafted good in 2019 and 2020 based on your standards. They were weak drafts. Thankfully Yzerman OWNED IT in the 1st round. That's all you can ask for when no significant talent came out of those drafts.

Also, 2019 was the year Yzerman became GM. He was at an unfair advantage as he was unemployed up to the draft. Tho he did do his due diligence on Seider. That was a homerun pick.