Detroit Redwings Downfall

[WarriorofTime]

This is not draft luck...

This was litigated two pages ago if you'd like to go back and review.

Yeah and you were explained to the reasons why that was said but are still arguing just to argue.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Yeah and you were explained to the reasons why that was said but are still arguing just to argue.

You're a fine one to talk about arguing just to argue.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yeah we know, they've been rebuilding for 9 years and just waiting for the kids. The difference is Anaheim said they're going to be aggressive, something Yzerman is still shying away from.

And what does “saying we’re going to be aggressive” mean whatsoever?

You’ve been in this thread non stop saying the Wings never should have been aggressive and signed Copp/Chiarot/Compher/ Litterally anyone because somehow that kept us out of the basement.

Now when another GM says they’re going to be aggressive, it’s a great thing.

You’re truly all over the place.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

And what does “saying we’re going to be aggressive” mean whatsoever?

You’ve been in this thread non stop saying the Wings never should have been aggressive and signed Copp/Chiarot/Compher/ Litterally anyone because somehow that kept us out of the basement.

Now when another GM says they’re going to be aggressive, it’s a great thing.

You’re truly all over the place.

I've heard those shitty signings are also what kept us 20 points from tanking...

 

[WarriorofTime]

And what does “saying we’re going to be aggressive” mean whatsoever?

It means that they've set a goal and expectation and if they don't hit, will hold themselves accountable for failing to achieve something they set out to do.

You’ve been in this thread non stop saying the Wings never should have been aggressive and signed Copp/Chiarot/Compher/ Litterally anyone because somehow that kept us out of the basement.

I've said Detroit whether on purpose or by accident put themselves into No Man's Land for multiple years and that's a bad place to be. Not sure what is confusing to you about this or why you think it's a crazy thing to even suggest.

Now when another GM says they’re going to be aggressive, it’s a great thing.

Well time will tell, but I think what Anaheim is doing is saying "we don't want to be in no man's land, now that we're done tanking, it's time to be an actual winning team", so no clapping for "oh we played meaningful hockey late in the season" or this Schroedinger's rebuild thing. You can continue to "wait for the kids" that aren't yet there while trying to win now. Anaheim has set a goal. If they don't it, then that's on them. But the direction is clear.

You’re truly all over the place.

I'm internally consistent unlike those that spent years celebrating marginal improvements in the standings after a bunch of mediocre vets got signed, and then pull back to "we don't even want to make the playoffs because a 1st round exit isn't the end goal anyways"

 

[Volica]

Man, what happened to the Wings ability to develop players?
Hronek is the high water mark of that franchise from the past 15 years. The inability to graduate later round prospects into NHLers is a good way to stay in the basement unless you luck into a McDavid.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Man, what happened to the Wings ability to develop players?
Hronek is the high water mark of that franchise from the past 15 years. The inability to graduate later round prospects into NHLers is a good way to stay in the basement unless you luck into a McDavid.

They literally just graduated two this year...

 

[Golden_Jet]

They literally just graduated two this year...

Which ones were the later round prospects that graduated.

 

[Pavels Dog]

114 GP from six draft classes outside the first round is not, in fact, drafting well. That's 1.5 seasons' worth. You vastly, vastly overestimate how good Yzerman is.

In reality like 2 draft classes can begin to be evaluated.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Which ones were the later round prospects that graduated.

Johansson and Soderblom. You're welcome.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Johansson and Soderblom. You're welcome.

Round 2 is not a late rounder lol
Is 26 games played last year, really qualify as graduated?
You’re welcome.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Round 2 is not a late rounder lol
Is 26 games played last year, really qualify as graduated?
You’re welcome.

When you cite 2nd round pick Filip Hronek to make your point... Yes it is.

Man, what happened to the Wings ability to develop players?
Hronek is the high water mark of that franchise from the past 15 years. The inability to graduate later round prospects into NHLers is a good way to stay in the basement unless you luck into a McDavid.

Go whine to him about the parameters he set if you don't like it.

 

[WarriorofTime]

In reality like 2 draft classes can begin to be evaluated.

Stankhoven, Knies and Moser all went 2nd round in 2021. Key parts of playoff teams this season.

 

[Golden_Jet]

When you cite 2nd round pick Filip Hronek to make your point... Yes it is.



Go whine to him about the parameters he set if you don't like it.

I never mentioned Hronek LMAO, it wasn’t me obviously. I have absolutely zero idea what you’re talking about

No, a second rounder is not a late round pick.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Stankhoven, Knies and Moser all went 2nd round in 2021. Key parts of playoff teams this season.

And Mazur, 3rd round in 2021, looks like a player. Or is a fluke injury Yzerman’s fault?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I never mentioned Hronek LMAO, it wasn’t me obviously. I have absolutely zero idea what you’re talking about

No, a second rounder is not a late round pick.

I never said you did.

Again, if you don't like the parameters that poster set, go whine to him.

Literally quoted the post for you. Read.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I never said you did.

Again, if you don't like the parameters that poster set, go whine to him.

Literally quoted the post for you. Read.

lmao you’re really struggling here dude, better to stick with your pals in the wings forum. Everyone is owning you in here.

 

[WarriorofTime]

And Mazur, 3rd round in 2021, looks like a player. Or is a fluke injury Yzerman’s fault?

If and when Mazur (0.67 point per game in the AHL) gets on those players level, Yzerman will get his flowers, until then, his best pick outside the 1st round in his Red Wing tenure is Albert Johansson.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

If and when Mazur (0.67 point per game in the AHL) gets on those players level, Yzerman will get his flowers, until then, his best pick outside the 1st round in his Red Wing tenure is Albert Johansson.

I like the petty attempt at a dig on Mazur's PPG.

I recall this also being a point of criticism as to why Kasper (.49 PPG) was an underwhelming prospect... Ope.

 

[Pavels Dog]

If and when Mazur (0.67 point per game in the AHL) gets on those players level, Yzerman will get his flowers, until then, his best pick outside the 1st round in his Red Wing tenure is Albert Johansson.

Because 3 teams found players who made the NHL quicker? One of who, Moser, is a soon to be 25 year old which is older than 100% of Yzerman’s draft picks?

You’re SURE you’re not biased against Yzerman and holding him to an unfair standard?

 

[WarriorofTime]

I like the petty attempt at a dig on Mazur's PPG.

It's not a "petty attempt", don't be so sensitive. Is it unrealistic to say he's probably a depth guy? How do you view the 0.67 AHL point per game (with over 80 AHL games) 23 year olds that aren't on your team? Players to be feared or just another guy that will be in the league?

I recall this also being a point of criticism as to why Kasper (.49 PPG) was an underwhelming prospect... Ope.

Is this supposed to be a flex?

 

[WarriorofTime]

One of who, Moser, is a soon to be 25 year old which is older than 100% of Yzerman’s draft picks?

What is this supposed to mean? You think Moser wasn't a good pick because it wasn't his first go around? Datsyuk was two years older then the first time eligibles when he got drafted in 1998. At what point did he become a good use of a draft pick?

 

[Pavels Dog]

What is this supposed to mean? You think Moser wasn't a good pick because it wasn't his first go around? Datsyuk was two years older then the first time eligibles when he got drafted in 1998. At what point did he become a good use of a draft pick?

Comparing Moser, a depth d-man already traded once, to one of the all-time great players is a reach.

 

[SirKillalot]

Nobody here said that Yzerman needed to trade the entire Griffins roster plus his first-born child for Rantanen.

Well to get what you want them to get, its gonna take 3-4 top picks and 3-4 good to solid prospects.
They just not gonna do that.

A player like Ryan Donato likely wouldn't have cost anything more than a 2nd round pick. That wasn't unreasonable to have expected in the least, especially given the reaction of the locker room.

Ryan Donato doesn't move the needle. Why on earth would they trade a 2nd for him?

Actually, I've been following, studying, and playing hockey for the last 25 years. Additionally, Yzerman didn't start from scratch in 2019. That's a complete myth.

He pretty much started from scratch. And he did magic getting a whole lot more out of what was there than any other GM would in the trades he did.

Know who did start from scratch? Vegas (it's a myth that they got elite talent in their first year, their club was literally made up of leftover trash nobody else wanted and every projection had them finishing as a lotto team in 2017-18).

Vegas started with a whole team of middle six forwards. They had all the depth, thus didn't need to spend 1st rounders to trade for depth to their team. They could focus on trading 1st+ for bigger impact players or sign through FA. They got off to a better start than expected and thus could attract some players.

The Habs went to the Cup Final

More so based on luck than quality. Had absolutely no chance and thus went out again.
Habs I think are building well too, but they at the moment are not much of a better team than Detroit.
Though I think they gotten some more pieces IF those guys perform or continue to perform. Though, I'm not at all certain the structure they have and they build they have will sniff any chances at a cup.

It was never supposed to take over 6 years just to slip into the playoffs as a Wild Card. In what other profession do you get to say that you'll not deliver any meaningful results until over half a decade has passed?

This was always going to take a long time, 6 years would be minimum. Colorado used 10+. Tampa the same. Florida a long time too. Edmonton a long time.

Sometimes the meaningful results is the building process taking place and not the end results. No results besides Stanley Cup is meaningful in that case.

Chris Ilitch is one of the worst, cheapest owners in professional sports. Using his stamp of approval isn't a flex.

Said without any evidence what so ever.
Team could spend to the cap if they want, so no this just isn't correct.

Both at the same time. You cannot oversee the majority of the longest postseason drought in team history with zero timeline to get back into competition and continuously say "just wait for the kids".

If they have a plan, and sticking to that plan with the approval from the ownership to do so, then they don't need your approval of their plan.

Detroit's young players need playoff experience to learn the realities of playoff hockey. Absolutely nobody (with extremely rare exception) cruises their way to the Cup with a group of young players in their 1st postseason experience, which has been the common refrain of the Yzerbots who think there's no point in playoff hockey unless they're bonafide title contenders.

Again, no one has said a team is going to win the cup on their first try. But you just want to get in to be playoff fodder, and you just want to be there. They don't. They want to achieve more. If that means, in their perspective that the chance of being able to achieve more over longer period of time, is by letting the prospects mature to the potential they have and using extra time to build them up to be solid contributors to get there to the point they will be competitive for many more years than you want, they will do so.

Even if Ottawa and Montreal get swept by the Leafs and Caps, their young core of players set to lead the franchise for the next decade already have a leg up on Detroit in learning what it takes to play playoff-style hockey.

Yeah, just like the Kraken. Working well for them right? Leg up!

Again, see above.

Again, no.

Except everyone else in the restaurant has finished their dessert and coffee, paid their bills, and left.

And won no Cups and complain about their future as one and done's or yearly playoff fodder like you like.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Comparing Moser, a depth d-man already traded once, to one of the all-time great players is a reach.

Not following, so Moser was not a good use of a pick in the 2nd round? Would help if you could clarify what you meant by bringing up that he was not in his first go around of the draft.