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Detroit Redwings Downfall

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If any paying customers is unhappy about it, go support another team. We don't want you.

Yeah, no. That's not how it works. Fans are allowed to expect more, especially from a team that set the new standard for NHL success and haven't made the playoffs for the longest time in their history.

You and the rest of the (shrinking group of) Yzerman pillow flutters are in the minority, and don't speak for the fan base as a whole. You're free to keep defending Yzerman's honor because he was your favorite player and because you can't stand the thought of someone saying he isn't perfect - the rest of us can separate Yzerman the player from the woefully underperforming GM who hasn't delivered.

No one if forcing them to be there. If they are not capable of understanding that player must develop and this isn't a quick fix just to make the playoffs, go support Vegas. Good team for them.

Let them develop. In the meantime, Yzerman needs to acquire established NHL talent so that his franchise doesn't continue to embarrass itself and alienate fans with their complete non-urgency to start winning again.

They absolutely cannot continue to spin their wheels into a 7th straight year with no direction other than "just wait for the kids".

Soon, the refrain will go from "just wait for the kids" to "well, just wait a few more years for them to get used to the NHL".

All of the fans who thought that Detroit's vaunted prospects (none of which are anything special besides ASP) would step into the NHL and instantly be elite are going to be in for a rough time.

No, this team will have patience to build a roster that has long term possibilities to fight for a cup or cups.

If that's the mentality Yzerman has, then he's not the GM for the job. You need to start winning. Making the playoffs at the end of year 5 of a tenure as the general manager of a professional sports franchise is the absolute bare minimum. He's now gone a full six years without a playoff appearance. That's an abysmal failure.

In before your typical "LOL ACCORDING TO WHOO???" response. Common sense and standards and keeping the stench of perpetual losing from the team - that's who.

Not spur of the moment things just to make a playoff appearance early and fade off.

In other words, you think the Red Wings shouldn't make the playoffs until they're realistic Cup contenders again. Again, that's not how it works or how success is built.
 
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both lottery luck and drafting luck. under the draft-related luck umbrella.
Lottery luck exists under the lottery luck umbrella. Drafting luck exists under the drafting luck umbrella.

Meanwhile, you're quick to tout his late round success in Tampa while neglecting to mention that his 1st round picks were largely an abomination, which hasn't been the case in Detroit.

Jury is still out on his later round picks in Detroit. A year ago people were holding a funeral for his 2019 draft and yet now it's looking like he's gotten 2 decent NHLers outside the 1st round.
 
It's not weird at all. Being a company man and standing up for the front office would be weird. Saying the players want to compete and are trying hard but that the front office should be trying hard to compete as well, is what you want from a captain.

"Nope we are totally cool with the front office eyeing 2027 for a playoff appearance." Would be weird.
Considering his slumps in the second half are part of the problem, maybe he shoulda just shut the f*** up?
 
I mean the team that took their playoff spot didn't make any adds at the deadline either.

I get it. He's trying to put pressure on the club to improve but it comes off as passing the buck.
Habs fans replied a lot saying that. They did add demidov in fairness.

I also read he didn't score a goal for a month in the Twitter comments but that could be baloney from.habs fans online.

I don't think it is a good look. But he has a powerful voice as a long time Wing on a new contract. Curious what comes of it.. if anything.
 
Is this a thinly-veiled way of saying that the Atlantic Division is too hard and that the Red Wings will have to wallow in mediocrity in 2025-26 because they won't push out the Leafs or Lightning?
No, it was clearly about the Ducks and their division.
Understand what you read the next time maybe?

Only team that could push out Leafs or Lightning from top two spots next year is Panthers.
Yeah, no. That's not how it works. Fans are allowed to expect more, especially from a team that set the new standard for NHL success and haven't made the playoffs for the longest time in their history.
Fans are also allowed to have a realistic point of view and not thinking this is a video game where you can trade whoever you want to your team in the offseason because you managed to do so on NHL25.
You and the rest of the (shrinking group of) Yzerman pillow flutters are in the minority, and don't speak for the fan base as a whole.
You most definitely do not speak for the fanbase, as you speak of things in an alternate reality where you think this is a video game and a quick fix in the offseason.
You're free to keep defending Yzerman's honor because he was your favorite player and because you can't stand the thought of someone saying he isn't perfect
Yzerman wasn't my favorite player, and no one has said he is perfect. But you clearly have major lacks in understanding the time it takes to build a solid team from scratch in the salary cap era.
the rest of us can separate Yzerman the player from the woefully underperforming GM who hasn't delivered.
He is performing just as planned. Drafting well. Just need more of the kids to develop and be part of the team. He said this from the start, he is doing what he said he would. The ownership agreed to the process and that it was going to take time. Just as with other teams who have built good teams. Go look at them and how long it also took them.
Let them develop. In the meantime, Yzerman needs to acquire established NHL talent so that his franchise doesn't continue to embarrass itself and alienate fans with their complete non-urgency to start winning again.
So in one instance its stated that they must be traded for established NHL talent and in another let them develop. Which one is it?

Just because one aren't in the playoffs to satisfy the few's inner lust for two or three playoff home games, doesn't mean progress isn't made within the franchise. Many of the kids taking valuable steps this year.
If that's the mentality Yzerman has, then he's not the GM for the job. You need to start winning. Making the playoffs at the end of year 5 of a tenure as the general manager of a professional sports franchise is the absolute bare minimum. He's now gone a full six years without a playoff appearance. That's an abysmal failure.
In your opinion who just want to be playoff fodder year out year in and see that as success.
Common sense and standards and keeping the stench of perpetual losing from the team - that's who.
According to your thoughts.
In other words, you think the Red Wings shouldn't make the playoffs until they're realistic Cup contenders again. Again, that's not how it works or how success is built.
No that is your words not mine. You don't know how success is built as you just want a playoff fodder team year out year in as long as you can say we made the playoffs.

I want them to stick to the plan and let the players develop enough so they get into the team and show what they can do before the dice is tossed. You don't grade the cook when you put the ingredients in the pan, you do it when the ingredients are cooked and put together as a dish and gets to the table.
Then you test and see if you need to add spices or sauces to make it better.
 
Being amongst the top lottery odds several times since 2019, including the best odds in 2020, and never winning. And where are the burgeoning stars picked in late rounds? Too early for '23 and '24, but there's nothing from before. Are you saying they haven't been unlucky?

That's one of the things that can't be laid at Yzerman's feet. It was absolutely criminal that they fell to 4th in the 2020 Draft when they were literally the worst team in hockey since the 14-win 1999-2000 Atlanta Thrashers.

Thankfully, that turned out to have a silver lining as I think most would take Raymond over Lafreniere in a re-draft.
 
He is performing just as planned. Drafting well. Just need more of the kids to develop and be part of the team.

114 GP from six draft classes outside the first round is not, in fact, drafting well. That's 1.5 seasons' worth. You vastly, vastly overestimate how good Yzerman is.
 
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Devils had a 49 point improvement 2021-22 to 2022-23. It's not the most likely of outcome by any means, but it's not crazy unrealistic. That's not a particularly strong division, the 4 teams ahead of them all have reasons to feel shaky about them as quickly as next year.

Not sure why you bothered asking if you've pre-determined the outcome.
Using this logic it applies to like …. Every single team in the NHL.
 
No, it was clearly about the Ducks and their division.
Understand what you read the next time maybe?

Only team that could push out Leafs or Lightning from top two spots next year is Panthers.

Fans are also allowed to have a realistic point of view and not thinking this is a video game where you can trade whoever you want to your team in the offseason because you managed to do so on NHL25.

Actually, I haven't played any NHL games since the PC version of NHL 2002 that year.

Nobody here said that Yzerman needed to trade the entire Griffins roster plus his first-born child for Rantanen.

A player like Ryan Donato likely wouldn't have cost anything more than a 2nd round pick. That wasn't unreasonable to have expected in the least, especially given the reaction of the locker room.

You most definitely do not speak for the fanbase, as you speak of things in an alternate reality where you think this is a video game and a quick fix in the offseason.

Yzerman wasn't my favorite player, and no one has said he is perfect. But you clearly have major lacks in understanding the time it takes to build a solid team from scratch in the salary cap era.

Actually, I've been following, studying, and playing hockey for the last 25 years. Additionally, Yzerman didn't start from scratch in 2019. That's a complete myth.

Know who did start from scratch? Vegas (it's a myth that they got elite talent in their first year, their club was literally made up of leftover trash nobody else wanted and every projection had them finishing as a lotto team in 2017-18). Know who else started from scratch? Seattle, who went to Game 7 of round 2 in their 2nd year of existence (yes, they've been bad 3/4 of the time, but have still accomplished more than Detroit has in 4 years.)

The Habs went to the Cup Final, bottomed out the last two years, and are back in the playoffs all since Yzerman arrived in Detroit. (and no, Juraj Slafkovsky, who was taken 1st overall, is nothing special).

The Stars have never had the 1st overall pick. How are they doing right about now?

The Senators never had the 1st overall pick. They made moves at the deadline and are in the playoffs before Detroit was. The Kings bottomed out and are back in the playoffs before Detroit was.

He is performing just as planned. Drafting well. Just need more of the kids to develop and be part of the team. He said this from the start, he is doing what he said he would.

It was never supposed to take over 6 years just to slip into the playoffs as a Wild Card. In what other profession do you get to say that you'll not deliver any meaningful results until over half a decade has passed?

The ownership agreed to the process and that it was going to take time.

Chris Ilitch is one of the worst, cheapest owners in professional sports. Using his stamp of approval isn't a flex.

Just as with other teams who have built good teams. Go look at them and how long it also took them.

See above.

So in one instance its stated that they must be traded for established NHL talent and in another let them develop. Which one is it?

Both at the same time. You cannot oversee the majority of the longest postseason drought in team history with zero timeline to get back into competition and continuously say "just wait for the kids".

In your opinion who just want to be playoff fodder year out year in and see that as success.

Detroit's young players need playoff experience to learn the realities of playoff hockey. Absolutely nobody (with extremely rare exception) cruises their way to the Cup with a group of young players in their 1st postseason experience, which has been the common refrain of the Yzerbots who think there's no point in playoff hockey unless they're bonafide title contenders.

"But there's no value in losing in the 1st round!" Yeah, there absolutely is. Even if Ottawa and Montreal get swept by the Leafs and Caps, their young core of players set to lead the franchise for the next decade already have a leg up on Detroit in learning what it takes to play playoff-style hockey.

Just like Yzerman did early on in his playing career (disproving another Yzerbot talking point of "but but but it took him until age 34 to win the Cup!!). He had to learn the realities that postseason hockey is 100% different from the regular season, and had over 90 games of playoff experience entering the 1997 postseason.

Otherwise, what kind of culture are you instilling in players like Larkin, Seider and Raymond, who know nothing but losing?

You don't know how success is built as you just want a playoff fodder team year out year in as long as you can say we made the playoffs.

Again, see above. You're confusing me with Ken Holland (and Mike Ilitch) from 2014 to 2016, who wanted to make the playoffs for literally zero reason other than to extend the stupid streak.

Just like I said with Montreal and Ottawa, even if they get sandblasted in Round 1, their young players learned a valuable lesson that will aid them in the long run.

You don't grade the cook when you put the ingredients in the pan, you do it when the ingredients are cooked and put together as a dish and gets to the table.

Except everyone else in the restaurant has finished their dessert and coffee, paid their bills, and left. Red Wings fans are still waiting for the meal, and Chef Yzerman has yet to turn the stove up from ultra-low heat. At some point, the promise of "trust me, it's gonna be delicious" wears thin. We're well past that point now.
 
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No, it was clearly about the Ducks and their division.
Understand what you read the next time maybe?

Only team that could push out Leafs or Lightning from top two spots next year is Panthers.

Fans are also allowed to have a realistic point of view and not thinking this is a video game where you can trade whoever you want to your team in the offseason because you managed to do so on NHL25.

You most definitely do not speak for the fanbase, as you speak of things in an alternate reality where you think this is a video game and a quick fix in the offseason.

Yzerman wasn't my favorite player, and no one has said he is perfect. But you clearly have major lacks in understanding the time it takes to build a solid team from scratch in the salary cap era.

He is performing just as planned. Drafting well. Just need more of the kids to develop and be part of the team. He said this from the start, he is doing what he said he would. The ownership agreed to the process and that it was going to take time. Just as with other teams who have built good teams. Go look at them and how long it also took them.

So in one instance its stated that they must be traded for established NHL talent and in another let them develop. Which one is it?

Just because one aren't in the playoffs to satisfy the few's inner lust for two or three playoff home games, doesn't mean progress isn't made within the franchise. Many of the kids taking valuable steps this year.

In your opinion who just want to be playoff fodder year out year in and see that as success.

According to your thoughts.

No that is your words not mine. You don't know how success is built as you just want a playoff fodder team year out year in as long as you can say we made the playoffs.

I want them to stick to the plan and let the players develop enough so they get into the team and show what they can do before the dice is tossed. You don't grade the cook when you put the ingredients in the pan, you do it when the ingredients are cooked and put together as a dish and gets to the table.
Then you test and see if you need to add spices or sauces to make it better.
SY is performing just as planned, funny one.
 
SY is performing just as planned, funny one.

At this point Detroit fans have given up on all expectations

Whenever they’ll make the playoffs during the next 10 years they’ll say the plan went just as planned..

No expectations, zero accountability
 
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No. Because you're citing his lottery luck and calling it draft luck, which isn't the same thing lmao.
It's not that complicated. You can make all the right picks with the information available and it still doesn't work too well. Yzerman drafts pretty well based on how he's done with his top 10 picks but either just due to not that much available or whatever, he hasn't been able to pull that top 10 in the world level superstar from a draft pick or had the fortune of Kucherov/Point picks exceeding everyone's wildest expectations from outside the 1st round. That's part of the "draft luck" being described.
 
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Every single team that has a bunch of highly drafted, highly touted young players and a GM that said rapid improvement is the goal. Yes.
It’s cool to say it out loud. Doesnt make it realistic.

And yes. A ton of teams have highly drafted, highly touted players, Wings included.
 
If Stevie Y paid the astronomical prices for a “mid” addition to appease larkin, he’d be getting shredded in here when they likely still miss. Damned if you do damned if you don’t.
Personally I think he made the right call.

Honestly might not be the worst idea to part ways with Larkin. They have a good young core that will start hit their stride as Larkin regresses and he’s clearly super frustrated. Wouldn’t want my captain saying that either.
 
And yes. A ton of teams have highly drafted, highly touted players, Wings included.
Yeah we know, they've been rebuilding for 9 years and just waiting for the kids. The difference is Anaheim said they're going to be aggressive, something Yzerman is still shying away from.
 
It's not that complicated. You can make all the right picks with the information available and it still doesn't work too well. Yzerman drafts pretty well based on how he's done with his top 10 picks but either just due to not that much available or whatever, he hasn't been able to pull that top 10 in the world level superstar from a draft pick or had the fortune of Kucherov/Point picks exceeding everyone's wildest expectations from outside the 1st round. That's part of the "draft luck" being described.

It actually is that complicated because there's a mammoth sized gap between not having the fortune of drafting a Kucherov outside the first round and having "catastrophically bad draft luck", as the poster claimed.

"Catastrophically bad draft luck", would suggest an absolute shit show of drafting ability, which simply is not the case.
 
It actually is that complicated because there's a mammoth sized gap between not having the fortune of drafting a Kucherov outside the first round and having "catastrophically bad draft luck", as the poster claimed.

"Catastrophically bad draft luck", would suggest an absolute shit show of drafting ability, which simply is not the case.
Not sure why you're caught in a semantics debate, Detroit has yet to draft their McDavid, MacKinnon, Makar type with a super high pick and yet to draft their Kucherov type with an out of left field pick. That's what they're referring to with "bad draft luck", not that he's been bombing high picks left and right with terrible selections. Everyone knows it's kind of a "right place, right time" scenario to get a generational talent rather than scouting acumen and that there's a lot of luck that goes into those homerun later round picks as well (because if they were so obviously identifiable then they would have already been taken).
 
Not sure why you're caught in a semantics debate, Detroit has yet to draft their McDavid, MacKinnon, Makar type with a super high pick and yet to draft their Kucherov type with an out of left field pick. That's what they're referring to with "bad draft luck", not that he's been bombing high picks left and right with terrible selections.

I too am shocked that Detroit hasn't drafted a McDavid (1st) or MacKinnon (1st) with a 30 year high pick of 4th Overall...

Not sure how calling out the phrasing "Catastrophically bad" for drafting that has actually been pretty good is considered debating semantics, but OK.
 
I too am shocked that Detroit hasn't drafted a McDavid (1st) or MacKinnon (1st) with a 30 year high pick of 4th Overall...
Hence bad draft luck, what are you missing here. Detroit's done the best they can with what was available but what was available was just "pretty good" [incoming semantics debate in 3... 2... 1] players and not the kind of players that dominate the league for 15 years and crap... and the current clubhouse leader for the best guy from outside the 1st round in Yzerman's drafts so far is..... Albert Johansson.

Compare that to Tampa, who got

Stamkos 60 goal guy with a 1st overall
Hedman 15+ year franchise DMan with a 2nd overall
Kucherov a 3 time Art Ross winner in the 2nd round
Vasilevskiy a top 2 goalie of the era with a late bonus 1st round pick
Point a 90 something point 1st line center in the 3rd round

You're not seeing the difference in the so-called "Draft Luck" even if you think Yzerman made the best available picks at each spot?
 
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