Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

[Dekes For Days]

Depends on how many other pieces they might have lost with tavares at 13 million

13 mil? We're not talking about San Jose. Those Islander teams weren't exactly an example of efficient cap management. Not sure why you think we couldn't find ~11m that Tavares would be more beneficial than.

Not likely as he hasn’t done anything like that for us.

The impact that a player has, and the extent to which they would help a team, is not measured in the playoff series wins of a different team. Tavares is an excellent player that has improved the quality of our team, and he's exactly the kind of piece that the Islanders needed most.

Terrible teams are generally that way as a result of their roster choices.

Yeah, teams usually live or die based on ~50 games from 1 bottom-six depth player.

His last season there he and his wingers were the three worst +/- forwards (combined -57).
The next season, those same two wingers were second and sixth best (combined +28).

Hmm, I wonder if that's because the team hired a new coach, hired a new goalie coach, had their defensemen start hitting their prime and breaking out, went from the 30th best defensive team in the league to the 9th best, went from the 28th best SV% in the league to the #1 best SV%, and saw a +64 jump in their team goal differential... or because their elite #1C walked...

The mysteries of the world!



P.S. I like how you combined their plus-minus to mislead because Tavares had the best plus-minus on his line.
P.P.S. Tavares had his plus-minus rise +31 from that season to the next.
P.P.P.S. Lol plus-minus. It's 2022, not 1922. It would be hard to pick a more useless stat.

 

[notbias]

Terrible teams are generally that way as a result of their roster choices.

Yes, Malgin and Marchment are the ones that move the needle.

I am looking forward to the Leafs missing the playoffs and Dallas finishing near the top of the league.

 

[Shooter2x]

I used to defend Dubas no matter what, which is another reason I can't take the pro-Dubas side seriously when they don't back up their statements with solid support (because let's face it, the support doesn't exist, and as a result the discussion breaks down into personal insults and fights because that's all that's left to talk about, sound familiar? Yeah, it's the daily here).

I would sit there and see how to weasel my way into making Dubas come out of a situation looking promising and ensuring a happy ending to everyone willing to read.

I notice the posters who post with logic and try to keep out emotion and biases and don't have a "gang" on this website with friends they need to appease have all abandoned ship on Dubas. Yes I'm a new account myself but I have seen an odd number of even newer accounts come out of no where. Seems like the pro-dubas side might be stifled to the point they need burner accounts just to say what they really think.

I'm not saying that to diss Dubas. It's just frustrating loving this team so much and having to face reality that we have this inexperienced GM throwing cup winning seasons away. Objectively speaking there is more to suggest Dubas is bad for this team versus evidence he is good for this team. The true pro-Leaf is the one who saw the Leafs core and foundation and genuinely think they should have at least 2 cups right now and see how the inferior moves by the GM held them back from that. It's usually the case that you are upset with both the team and the GM. When people love the team (roster) but hate the GM that's usually a good indicator it's the GM. That's not sound logic but it's makes more sense than some of the pro-dubas support I see on a daily basis.


/rant over

 

[andora]

13 mil? We're not talking about San Jose. Those Islander teams weren't exactly an example of efficient cap management. Not sure why you think we couldn't find ~11m that Tavares would be more beneficial than.

What?

Tavares might not help them squeak out a win if the islanders still had him - tavares money whatever lou offered him would have resulted in other players off the roster due to cap space

 

[Dekes For Days]

tavares money whatever lou offered him would have resulted in other players off the roster due to cap space

Yes, and there's no reason to think that Tavares wouldn't bring more positive impact than ~11m that could be removed from other areas.

 

[andora]

Yes, and there's no reason to think that Tavares wouldn't bring more positive impact than ~11m that would be removed from other areas.

Could go either way

 

[Dekes For Days]

Could go either way

Considering the amount of dead cap and complimentary or replacement level pieces that were being overpaid, not really.

 

[justashadowof]

I was all for signing Tavares for $11M aav at the time. But it resulted in a top heavy salary structure. I thought at the time of the signing that the team would bridge some of the young stars due to the Tavares deal to make the money work for the overall team. Maybe there was no way to bridge any of them. Anyways I was wrong. The Tavares signing was a mistake for these reasons. See it isn't that hard to do.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I know. It’s my frustration level getting the better of me. I’m just sick of losing and have yet to see anything out of Dubas that says things will be different this year just the same dabbling with the fringe players. One large gamble after another.
over the 4 decades I have been a Leaf fan I have had the multiple years and decades of blindly following them without question. I will not ever follow another team but I’m sure fed up with this group right now


Maybe mess is a bit to strong but they are far from successful and very good teams are measured by playoff success

I get it, and with 5 decades under my belt I'm if anything more frustrated than you. Only advice I can give is focus on the positive. Of course the playoff failures are the 1st thing that comes to mind with this team but we are still a top contender, we have a shot at winning it all this season so it's not all bad and there are positives to look at if you choose to do so.

IMO it's not a binary - Dubas good, or Dubas bad. The discussion here has become so polarized that it might seem that way but it's really not. On on hand it's his team now so he takes the blame but I guess he then also takes the credit for the teams successes in the regular season? That's nowhere near as important as the playoffs to me but it's not completely meaningless either. So why do we fail in the playoffs? Is it all on Dubas, or is it on the players as well? And if so, then which players are the ones to blame, now that's a tough one, at least for me.

I haven't posted much lately, discussion has become too polarized to be interesting. I can't wait for the games to begin, and I especially can't wait for the playoffs. I say this team has as good a chance as anyone else in the East to make the finals, that's my story and I'm sticking to it, at least until I have good reason not to.

The past does not dictate the future. It took the Red Sox 85 years but even they eventually broke through. This team can do it. GLG!!

.

 

[rocketman588]

Considering the amount of dead cap and complimentary or replacement level pieces that were being overpaid, not really.

Yet despite not having dead cap and supposedly better players he can't make a difference for us.

Seems like the isles are better off

If he was that much of a difference maker he would have helped us win a series

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yet despite not having dead cap and supposedly better players he can't make a difference for us.

He's made a difference for us. He's been an excellent player that has added a lot of impact to our team.

Seems like the isles are better off

Doesn't seem like that at all.

 

[rocketman588]

He's made a difference for us. He's been an excellent player that has added a lot of impact to our team.

Doesn't seem like that at all.

They have had significantly better seasons and playoffs then we had so yes they're better off.

They've actually made the conference finals. If he made that much of a difference we would have won a round with our supposedly great team.

While they flourished and made runs we've floundered every year because he's not been good enough when it counts. If you asked every isles fan all of them would let him go again. If we made the run they did even once he'd have a statue outside of the ACC unfortunately he's not been good enough even when we've had easy match ups like the jackets.

Additionally if we spread his salary out better one injury wouldn't have made as big of an impact as his did against Montreal.

 

[Dekes For Days]

They have had significantly better seasons and playoffs then we had so yes they're better off.

Not only is that untrue, but also completely irrelevant. However good you think they have been, they would have been improved by having Tavares.

If you asked every isles fan all of them would let him go again.

Publicly, some may say that, the same way somebody may say they don't want their ex back when there's no chance of it happening. Privately, they're crushed, and know that it may have cost them a cup.

 

[egd27]

Yes, Malgin and Marchment are the ones that move the needle.

I am looking forward to the Leafs missing the playoffs and Dallas finishing near the top of the league.

Didn't say that, I just pointed out that Malgin has played 184 of his 192 games on what you described as terrible teams.

 

[notbias]

Didn't say that, I just pointed out that Malgin has played 184 of his 192 games on what you described as terrible teams.

why would you point out something so irrelevant? McDavid played 100% of his games on a terrible team

 

[egd27]

why would you point out something so irrelevant? McDavid played 100% of his games on a terrible team

Well if you can't follow a simple string of posts to figure that out, I can't help you.

 

[everett rats]

No playoff series wins but passed the test? Lol

 

[Racer88]

He's made a difference for us. He's been an excellent player that has added a lot of impact to our team.

Doesn't seem like that at all.

Exactly what has this difference been. By what measurement has he made us better.

 

[Big Muddy]

That may be the case but the team was garbage in 2017/18. They went from 31st in GA to 1st. Does it seem more likely that the reason for that is the reasons I mentioned or subtracting 1 player who is a PPG player and was a top 10 C in the league at the time?

What would his +/- have been if he had played in Trotz's system with Lehner having a .930sv% and Greiss having a .927 sv% ?

And yes Trotz was the perfect coach for that roster.

So, are you saying that the Leafs should hire a better coach then? They have a boat load of money, so that can't be the excuse.

 

[Big Muddy]

We didn't need an AHL grinder.

Seems like Marchment has become a lot more than an "AHL grinder". Isn't a trait or characteristic of being a good GM (with a supporting cast of good scouts of course) is having the ability to identify talent and developing it? So, in this case, you are giving good grades for a FAIL.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Imaginations run wild in here I see.

There sure do seem to be some wild imaginations in this thread.

Seems like Marchment has become a lot more than an "AHL grinder". Is part of being a good GM with a supporting cast of good scouts supposed to be good at identifying talent and developing it?

Yes, years later, after hitting waivers and UFA multiple times, Marchment has unexpectedly moved up from 25-year old AHL grinder to complimentary NHL depth. No GM in the league saw that coming, or they would have grabbed him on waivers. Sometimes players break out down the road in different situations. It's nothing to lose sleep over. That's hockey, and it happens to every team. What's most important is that GMs are making the correct decisions based on the available information at the time.

Exactly what has this difference been. By what measurement has he made us better.

Tavares is an excellent player, he brings a lot of positive impact and fills an important role, and after not even just adding him but replacing departing players with him, we improved in most skater measures he'd impact and are now one of the best teams in the league. You can't just arbitrarily claim that the team lost playoff rounds, so X player you choose on the team is useless.

 

[NoTeeth]

The perception of the current state of the Leafs is always odd to me. I hear what a disaster they are daily. Good prospect pool, great cap situation going forward. Top 5 team next year no doubt.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The perception of the current state of the Leafs is always odd to me. I hear what a disaster they are daily. Good prospect pool, great cap situation going forward. Top 5 team next year no doubt.

It's largely just a vocal minority that's allowed to propagate on this board, fueled by hockey talk media that benefits financially from dumping on Toronto. Most Leaf fans understand that we have an excellent team and situation moving forward.

 

[NoTeeth]

It's largely just a vocal minority that's allowed to propagate on this board, fueled by hockey talk media that benefits financially from dumping on Toronto. Most Leaf fans understand that we have an excellent team and situation moving forward.

The media only ever reports on Leafs cap "Hell". Vegas and Minnesota..I can't recall ever seeing teams since the cap came in with this degree of cap troubles. If people bothered to study every team they'd see Leafs are better than vast majority of the NHl in terms of cap.

Leafs are really set-up great to sign everyone soon that they want to keep.

 

[ACC1224]

The perception of the current state of the Leafs is always odd to me. I hear what a disaster they are daily. Good prospect pool, great cap situation going forward. Top 5 team next year no doubt.

If that's what you hear you're listening to the wrong people. Most of the concern people have is that this is a very good team that may be wasting its opportunity.
I see you're new, welcome. I think you'll find for the most part people are pretty fair with their impressions here, minus a couple who see no wrong. They're more comedy relief than anything at this point.