Player Discussion Denis Gurianov - "Change of scenery edition"

[Scriptor]

Everybody has their opinion about Gurianov; can he shoot, is he good defensively, does he impose himself physically?

What's important, other than watching the 4 goals in 5 games since he became a Hab, is whether he is willing to consistently go to the area from which he scored against TB?

In that game, he went to that area at least 4 times, allowing himself too be a target for four above average scoring opportunities.

Defensivley, he back checked agrressivlkey on several occasions that I saw and made good defensive plays.

In the corners, no, he isn't particularly physical or mean -- that's a work in progress. I'll be happy if he isn't a hitting machine, but learns to protect the puck really well, working for playmaking or shooting opportunities by winning those puck protection battles.

Imagine a deal of Armia + 3rd round pick for the 6'5" Mantha and his 5.7M, one-year contract that WAS desperatley wants to get rid of?

Then, imagine that Dubois trade going through, with Dubois becoming a Hab?

Overnight, MON adds Dubois and Mantha, plus they extend Gurianov whom they got for Dadonov. Then they add Heineman as a rookie.

Four bigger bodied scorers with speed and an NHL shot.

The team gets bigger instantly, but does as much by adding skill as well. Playmaking wingers like Slafkovsky, Farrell and Roy become more important as they now have targets to exploit.

 

[yianik]

Dadonov has also impressed in Dallas. Both have no contracts next year and must show some level of consistency.

I'm hoping he keeps it up for the last dozen games.

 

[Scriptor]

Or Josh Anderson 2.0, without the physicality. Anderson has done well lately. I still think Anderson is best with RHP and that Gurianov will need to right linemates. Gurianov isn't that great at driving play with the puck. I'd give him Farrell and Sach next year, two players like to dominate the puck and find scoring wingers:

Caufield - Suzuki - Slaf
Farrell - Dach - Gurianov
RHP - _______ - Anderson
Gallagher/Richard/Pitlick/Belzile/Pez/Armia/Hoffman - Evan's - Ylonen

Caufield - Suzuki - Roy
Slafkovsky - Dubois - Anderson
Mantha - Dach - Gurianov
Farrell - Evans - Heineman

Switch Mantha and Farrell out from time to time to change the look for opposing teams...

 

[Runner77]

At yesterday’s presser following practise, Marty was asked whether Gurianov had the attributes and the profile of a top 6 player. The question was asked in French at about the 10:30 mark:



His answer appears to suggest that Gurianov is not a top 6 player:

Il a un shot top-6. Il a la rapidité d’un top-6. Mais pour être un top-6 dans la LNH, ça prend plus que ça parce que généralement, tu joues souvent contre des top-6 l’autre bord. Juste être vite pis avoir une bonne shot, c’est pas assez. Faut que tu sois capable de jouer la game.

TRANSLATION: “He has the shot of a top-6. He’s got the speed of a top-6. However to be a top 6 in the NHL, it takes more than that since generally, you’re often playing against the opposition’s top-6. Just being fast and having a good shot, is not enough. You need to be able to play the game.”

Sounds like he’s inferring that Gurianov has a low IQ and might best be suited to a bottom 6 role.

 

[26Mats]

At yesterday’s presser following practise, Marty was asked whether Gurianov had the attributes and the profile of a top 6 player. The question was asked in French at about the 10:30 mark:



His answer appears to suggest that Gurianov is not a top 6 player:

Il a un shot top-6. Il a la rapidité d’un top-6. Mais pour être un top-6 dans la LNH, ça prend plus que ça parce que généralement, tu joues souvent contre des top-6 l’autre bord. Juste être vite pis avoir une bonne shot, c’est pas assez. Faut que tu sois capable de jouer la game.

TRANSLATION: “He has the shot of a top-6. He’s got the speed of a top-6. However to be a top 6 in the NHL, it takes more than that since generally, you’re often playing against the opposition’s top-6. Just being fast and having a good shot, is not enough. You need to be able to play the game.”

Sounds like he’s inferring that Gurianov has a low IQ and might best be suited to a bottom 6 role.

Marty also said roughly "you have to have a 200 foot game to be a top 6 because you're playing against the opposition's top six. And if you don't have a 200 foot game you better score ccx 50. And that's what we'll see with Gurianov."

He said a couple times we'll see with Gurianov.

So from that clip about the 200 feet, he at least wants to see if Gurianov can play defensively and not turn the puck over. I would also extrapolate and say Marty wants to see if he can teach him to be that defensively competent player.

I would further extrapolate that, like Josh Anderson, on the offensive side he wants him to not only be fast and have a good shot but also be able to make plays with his linemates.

So basically I don't think MSL has closed the book on who he is because he said twice we'll see (a voir). He was more talking about what Gurianov will need to be to be top 6.

My own take is he'll need to play with a good playmaking center or linemate to be productive. I have him playing with Dach and Farrell. Get them the puck and get open, like Pacioretty said he liked to do with Radulov.

But Pacioretty could make plays with his linemates. I think Gurianov will have to be able to do that to keep a top 9 spot. There are only 6 top 9 wing spots. We have a lot of young offensive players coming up (Roy, Slaf, Heineman, Kidney, Ylonen, RHP, Caufield, Anderson, Beck, Dubois?, our picks in the upcoming draft. Plus a lot of wingers become available like Tolvanen, Vrana, and Kasleri Kapanen. So he'll have to do the things marty said just to keep a top 9 spot, imo.

Caufield - Suzuki - Roy
Slafkovsky - Dubois - Anderson
Mantha - Dach - Gurianov
Farrell - Evans - Heineman

Switch Mantha and Farrell out from time to time to change the look for opposing teams...

Hopefully Farrell impresses...

 

[Scriptor]

Marty also said roughly "you have to have a 200 foot game to be a top 6 because you're playing against the opposition's top six. And if you don't have a 200 foot game you better score ccx 50. And that's what we'll see with Gurianov."

He said a couple times we'll see with Gurianov.

So from that clip about the 200 feet, he at least wants to see if Gurianov can play defensively and not turn the puck over. I would also extrapolate and say Marty wants to see if he can teach him to be that defensively competent player.

I would further extrapolate that, like Josh Anderson, on the offensive side he wants him to not only be fast and have a good shot but also be able to make plays with his linemates.

So basically I don't think MSL has closed the book on who he is because he said twice we'll see (a voir). He was more talking about what Gurianov will need to be to be top 6.

My own take is he'll need to play with a good playmaking center or linemate to be productive. I have him playing with Dach and Farrell. Get them the puck and get open, like Pacioretty said he liked to do with Radulov.

But Pacioretty could make plays with his linemates. I think Gurianov will have to be able to do that to keep a top 9 spot. There are only 6 top 9 wing spots. We have a lot of young offensive players coming up (Roy, Slaf, Heineman, Kidney, Ylonen, RHP, Caufield, Anderson, Beck, Dubois?, our picks in the upcoming draft. Plus a lot of wingers become available like Tolvanen, Vrana, and Kasleri Kapanen. So he'll have to do the things marty said just to keep a top 9 spot, imo.



Hopefully Farrell impresses...

I like Farrell, but with my example, we had Mantha and, if you have Mantha, he needs to play in the top-9 at least, if only to have some value back form him at the trade deadline.

 

[Walrus26]

At yesterday’s presser following practise, Marty was asked whether Gurianov had the attributes and the profile of a top 6 player. The question was asked in French at about the 10:30 mark:



His answer appears to suggest that Gurianov is not a top 6 player:

Il a un shot top-6. Il a la rapidité d’un top-6. Mais pour être un top-6 dans la LNH, ça prend plus que ça parce que généralement, tu joues souvent contre des top-6 l’autre bord. Juste être vite pis avoir une bonne shot, c’est pas assez. Faut que tu sois capable de jouer la game.

TRANSLATION: “He has the shot of a top-6. He’s got the speed of a top-6. However to be a top 6 in the NHL, it takes more than that since generally, you’re often playing against the opposition’s top-6. Just being fast and having a good shot, is not enough. You need to be able to play the game.”

Sounds like he’s inferring that Gurianov has a low IQ and might best be suited to a bottom 6 role.

Sounds like he's praising what he sees from Gurianov whilst making clear what he needs to work on......

 

[26Mats]

I like Farrell, but with my example, we had Mantha and, if you have Mantha, he needs to play in the top-9 at least, if only to have some value back form him at the trade deadline.

I'm fine with adding Mantha, but only at a low cost. His age doesn't fit our timeline, especially since I see him likely not being good by 32, 33.

And Washington paid a lot for him, so they probably still don't want to just give him away.

 

[Runner77]

Sounds like he's praising what he sees from Gurianov whilst making clear what he needs to work on......

Marty’s liking two of his tools. Is there more under the hood? There didn’t appear to be while in Dallas where he plateaud. Will the new environment bring out more, I don’t know enough about the player’s work ethic.

Which begs the question of what they’ll do with him in the interim. They’ll need some more time to figure out if the player fits in some capacity but there isn’t a whole lot of time since he’ll soon be UFA-eligible.

They can’t give a wild card player like this too long of a deal either, as they want to be able to cut bait without too much damage if he doesn’t work out.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I'm fine with adding Mantha, but only at a low cost. His age doesn't fit our timeline, especially since I see him likely not being good by 32, 33.

And Washington paid a lot for him, so they probably still don't want to just give him away.

Mantha is not worth it. He's not worth the salary or line-up spot.

 

[26Mats]

Mantha is not worth it. He's not worth the salary or line-up spot.

I'd be ok with it at a low salary after his current deal is up. But only to flip him and only if he's ccx not taking a spot away from younger players.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I like Farrell, but with my example, we had Mantha and, if you have Mantha, he needs to play in the top-9 at least, if only to have some value back form him at the trade deadline.

I would pass on Mantha. He blocks spots for younger players. Lets just ride out the terms left with Dvorak, Armia, and Hoffman like we did with Byron and Drouin. Maybe we can trade them, maybe not but if we can't, lets not add more guys that clutters our roster and salary cap space.

 

[Cournoyer12]

Everybody has their opinion about Gurianov; can he shoot, is he good defensively, does he impose himself physically?

What's important, other than watching the 4 goals in 5 games since he became a Hab, is whether he is willing to consistently go to the area from which he scored against TB?

In that game, he went to that area at least 4 times, allowing himself too be a target for four above average scoring opportunities.

Defensivley, he back checked agrressivlkey on several occasions that I saw and made good defensive plays.

In the corners, no, he isn't particularly physical or mean -- that's a work in progress. I'll be happy if he isn't a hitting machine, but learns to protect the puck really well, working for playmaking or shooting opportunities by winning those puck protection battles.

Imagine a deal of Armia + 3rd round pick for the 6'5" Mantha and his 5.7M, one-year contract that WAS desperatley wants to get rid of?

Then, imagine that Dubois trade going through, with Dubois becoming a Hab?

Overnight, MON adds Dubois and Mantha, plus they extend Gurianov whom they got for Dadonov. Then they add Heineman as a rookie.

Four bigger bodied scorers with speed and an NHL shot.

The team gets bigger instantly, but does as much by adding skill as well. Playmaking wingers like Slafkovsky, Farrell and Roy become more important as they now have targets to exploit.

As Marcelino said to Kramer in the Bodega about Little Jerry Seinfeld the rooster “I like the way he handles himself “!

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I'm guessing KH will either sign or trade Gurianov this off-season.

 

[The Great Weal]

I'm guessing KH will either sign or trade Gurianov this off-season.

He's not trading him.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Everybody has their opinion about Gurianov; can he shoot, is he good defensively, does he impose himself physically?

What's important, other than watching the 4 goals in 5 games since he became a Hab, is whether he is willing to consistently go to the area from which he scored against TB?

In that game, he went to that area at least 4 times, allowing himself too be a target for four above average scoring opportunities.

Defensivley, he back checked agrressivlkey on several occasions that I saw and made good defensive plays.

In the corners, no, he isn't particularly physical or mean -- that's a work in progress. I'll be happy if he isn't a hitting machine, but learns to protect the puck really well, working for playmaking or shooting opportunities by winning those puck protection battles.

Imagine a deal of Armia + 3rd round pick for the 6'5" Mantha and his 5.7M, one-year contract that WAS desperatley wants to get rid of?

Then, imagine that Dubois trade going through, with Dubois becoming a Hab?

Overnight, MON adds Dubois and Mantha, plus they extend Gurianov whom they got for Dadonov. Then they add Heineman as a rookie.

Four bigger bodied scorers with speed and an NHL shot.

The team gets bigger instantly, but does as much by adding skill as well. Playmaking wingers like Slafkovsky, Farrell and Roy become more important as they now have targets to exploit.

Mantha no thanks

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Everybody has their opinion about Gurianov; can he shoot, is he good defensively, does he impose himself physically?

What's important, other than watching the 4 goals in 5 games since he became a Hab, is whether he is willing to consistently go to the area from which he scored against TB?

In that game, he went to that area at least 4 times, allowing himself too be a target for four above average scoring opportunities.

Defensivley, he back checked agrressivlkey on several occasions that I saw and made good defensive plays.

In the corners, no, he isn't particularly physical or mean -- that's a work in progress. I'll be happy if he isn't a hitting machine, but learns to protect the puck really well, working for playmaking or shooting opportunities by winning those puck protection battles.

Imagine a deal of Armia + 3rd round pick for the 6'5" Mantha and his 5.7M, one-year contract that WAS desperatley wants to get rid of?

Then, imagine that Dubois trade going through, with Dubois becoming a Hab?

Overnight, MON adds Dubois and Mantha, plus they extend Gurianov whom they got for Dadonov. Then they add Heineman as a rookie.

Four bigger bodied scorers with speed and an NHL shot.

The team gets bigger instantly, but does as much by adding skill as well. Playmaking wingers like Slafkovsky, Farrell and Roy become more important as they now have targets to exploit.

Hard no on Mantha, he is a bum and wore out his welcome in both Detroit and Washington with poor work ethic. He is not what Hughes is looking for at 29 years old with a 5.7 M cap hit, crappy attitude and let's be honest, the guy has never produced despite all of that physical talent with a career high of 48 points. Why would we want another more expensive Hoffman for another year? Even Hoffman has been far more productive in his career.

I understand and appreciate the benefit of losing Armia's 2nd year but I think that given Hughes' insistence on building culture and not wanting vets like Mantha around who are well established to be problems (this was the story with Mantha long before he was in the NHL). It is difficult to see Hughes making this move. Why not just trade the pick that you proposed in the deal for someone to take Armia if he gets off to a decent start and weaponize that cap space saved from Armia's contract and not taking on Mantha's contract?

I am very sceptical about Gurianov as well as his issues from what I have been told extend past just not playing hard.

 

[Rapala]

Gurianov had some pretty decent defensive plays last night but he also had the dumb penalty that led to a goal and his line was caught out for another. They may try him with Dach to see if we can get a better take on him than we will get with Drouin at C.

 

[Wateredgarden]

Gurianov is as invisible as Drouin in his worst streaches. Apart from when he's within 10 feet of the net you never hear his name during a game. I love him dearly anyways and I want to keep him.

 

[DAChampion]

My mind is so resistant to believing that Gurianov might be any good because reclamation projects usually fail in the NHL.

But here the Habs have Matheson, Dach, and Gurianov as reclamation projects on the team, exceeding what their prior teams thought they could do.

 

[26Mats]

Gurianov is as invisible as Drouin in his worst streaches. Apart from when he's within 10 feet of the net you never hear his name during a game. I love him dearly anyways and I want to keep him.

Gurianov can also create off of the rush. He created Drouin's goal with nifty work at the offensive blue line and then a nice pass.

If you only hear of him when he's sporadically creating offense and not anything else, that would be great. The problem will be if there's only sporadic offense, but you hear his name too often for turnovers, missed defensive assignments, soft play on the wall for turnovers, etc... In short, if he's too much like Drouin, the points won't make up for the deficiencies.

 

[26Mats]

My mind is so resistant to believing that Gurianov might be any good because reclamation projects usually fail in the NHL.

But here the Habs have Matheson, Dach, and Gurianov as reclamation projects on the team, exceeding what their prior teams thought they could do.

Yeah, Dach and Matheson really put things into perspective.

I mean, with Gurianov, he's never going to be a great overall hockey player. The key will be to see if MSL can get him to not hurt us defensively and not kill too many offensive plays. The best possible Gurianov is probably someone that looks to get the puck to a good playmaking linemate like Dach (or Farrell ?) and then gets open for a shot or a rush down the wing. He can also make nifty plays on the rush, which is another good offensive tool. It's clear he has offensive talent. I doubt he'll ever be a physical player. But not everyone is.

 

[BLONG7]

Sounds like he's praising what he sees from Gurianov whilst making clear what he needs to work on......

Sounds like a coach eh......I really like MSL and his approach to each individual.

Gurianov can also create off of the rush. He created Drouin's goal with nifty work at the offensive blue line and then a nice pass.

If you only hear of him when he's sporadically creating offense and not anything else, that would be great. The problem will be if there's only sporadic offense, but you hear his name too often for turnovers, missed defensive assignments, soft play on the wall for turnovers, etc... In short, if he's too much like Drouin, the points won't make up for the deficiencies.

The deficiencies can be taught..............that shot can't be.
Unlike Drouin, this kid will go to the dirty areas, and can be taught the D side of the game.

 

[26Mats]

The deficiencies can be taught..............that shot can't be.
Unlike Drouin, this kid will go to the dirty areas, and can be taught the D side of the game.

I'm hopeful. But MSL himself said the book is still out and they need a bigger sample size to see.

Michael Ryder had a good shot, but was always a turnover machine. Same with Hoffman - or at least with Hoffman in the later part of his career. I didn't watch him enough when he was starting out.

 

[Walrus26]

Yeah, Dach and Matheson really put things into perspective.

I mean, with Gurianov, he's never going to be a great overall hockey player. The key will be to see if MSL can get him to not hurt us defensively and not kill too many offensive plays. The best possible Gurianov is probably someone that looks to get the puck to a good playmaking linemate like Dach (or Farrell ?) and then gets open for a shot or a rush down the wing. He can also make nifty plays on the rush, which is another good offensive tool. It's clear he has offensive talent. I doubt he'll ever be a physical player. But not everyone is.

Every good 3rd line needs a genuine scoring threat on it that won't outweigh their own contributions with piss poor IQ and awful reads when the puck is going the other way, and who can make the most of favourable matchups.

I wonder if he can be that guy for us?