News Article: Delete

[Fandlauer]

Even if the pope or the president confirm
You can't be 100% sure
In fact even after the event has happened you will never be 100% sure
Could be media fabrication
Could be hallucination
Could be a total make up
You will never be 100% sure because even being 100% sure is unreliable
Theres no proof that certainty exist

His quest for proofs and certainty is just polluting the board

(don't quote me on this as Im not 100% sure of what I wrote)

 

[BonkTastic]

I appreciate the reply, but I'll disagree with your conclusion that we can keep two (and I assume remain competitive).

"Adding Ryan onto him does nothing for a rebuild because by the time a re-built team would be competitive and the young talent you've gained need new contracts after their ELC, his money is gonna be off the books anyway."

I don't think this is the case. Even with ELC/cheaper talent, we're going to have to pay players like Stone and Duchene significant money to keep them as soon as 2019-20. If our budget remains at 68 million, having Ryan leaves us at 60.5M we can actually spend, that's not even counting Gaborik+Phaneuf+MacArthur dead money. So there's value even in a rebuild of dumping Ryan with Karlsson.

I also don't think a rebuild these days takes quite as long as people think. With the parity of the NHL, teams can bounce back to playoff bubble team status very quickly.

With that said, whether or not we should bundle Ryan with Karlsson doesn't change that I think our current level of dead salary will prevent us from being competitive with Karlsson re-signed, that a rebuild around Duchene+Stone with Ryan's salary dumped in a Karl trade would be more effective if the end goal is to build the most successful team possible long term under a 68M budget.

Let's say we get rid of one of Stone or Duchene as you suggested, while the negative impact in the short term won't be as bad as if we lost Karlsson, I don't think Karlsson alone can lead a team like that to success. We'd also still have Ryan's dead salary on the books which will continue to handicap us....look at it this way, if by re-signing Karlsson we forgo the opportunity to dump Ryan, it's almost as if the opportunity cost of re-signing Karlsson would be 18-20 million per season under a (supposed) 68M budget. That is because by choosing to re-sign Karlsson, we've given up the opportunity to dump Ryan.....

So what I am proposing is a future where we have Duchene+Stone+Assets from Karlsson as a kick start to a rebuild/re-tool.

What you're proposing is a future where we have Karlsson+Only one of Stone or Duchene+Ryan's 7.5M salary+lesser assets from a Duchene or Stone trade.


"If we let EK go our D is horrendous and there's little reason to think that would change quickly unless we somehow end up drafting two dmen in the top 8 of this upcoming draft."

If we keep EK and do not dump Ryan, we'll have significantly more deficiencies than just a bad d-core. There just would not be money to address the sheer amount of holes that would need to be filled with Karl+Stone+Duchene+Ryan at roughly 38M combined. If we do not sign one of Duchene or Stone as your proposed in order to keep Karlsson, I don't think that's a solution. Losing Duchene for example would leave us with Pageau as our 1C until someone else develops into that role.

"Ultimately a team is never gonna be a contender on a strict budget like the Sens are on right now. "

I agree completely. I don't think we'll ever be a contender under our current budget, but I think we can build a more competitive team long term via bundling Ryan with Karlsson and going through a rebuild that way.


"That's not only because nearly every team has some bad contracts (not to the extent the Sens currently do mind you) but also because there won't be many bridge contracts for top young talent anymore. We've seen it with McDavid, Eichel, Ekblad, Draisaitl and we're gonna see more of that soon with players like Matthews, Werenski, Boeser, Barzal and so on. We can trade EK now and try to go for a full rebuild, but even if we luck into drafting the next superstar of a similar caliber (very unlikely) he's gonna cost 10+ million after his ELC - leaving us right back where we are now. Or we rebuild, don't luck into drafting a superstar, and end up back on the fringe of the playoffs until the new core creeps towards their UFA years."

The issue isn't that Karlsson might cost as much as 12.5M, the issue is that Karlsson might cost 12.5M, and we have double digits of bad money on the books for the next four seasons.

Let's say we win the lottery, and we draft Dahlin, who at minimum if he pans out will cost 7.5M (Ekblad) on an extension after his ELC and at most might cost 10M+. We should not have a problem locking him down at that money in 3 years time since we'd lose the Ryan money in a Karlsson trade, and Gaborik+Phaneuf will be off the books by then.

The thing is, there'll always be bad contracts to an extent. No GM hits it perfect, but the Sens situation isn't just bad contracts. It's a combination of both bad contracts, and the core players all reaching UFA or RFA arbitration age at the same time. All NHL teams are cyclical in how they are built. There needs to be superstars, and then underpaid ELC/RFA talent in order to keep the team competitive.

We've reached a stage where with not only there being a significant amount of bad money on the books, but also most of our core players have reached the end of their cheap contracts. These would be Stone, Karlsson, Duchene (Formerly Turris @ 3.5M), Ceci, Hoffman, and soon to be Pageau, Dzingel, (and would be Brassard if we didn't trade him)

It's not sustainable. We need to use Karlsson as a catalyst to start fresh. Dorion and co and absolved of getting us here, but they are right that we need to take one step (a big one) back in order to take two steps forward.

I might not agree with you on some of this, but I'll be damned if I don't give you credit for writing a post this long, this coherent and well explained, and this detailed, without being condescending or insulting.

My hat is off to you, my dude. We need more of this around here.

 

[BonkTastic]

Subban signed his deal with Montreal High Taxes.

The "High Taxes" are the English-language team in Montreal, they went defunct in the 1930's.

You're thinking of "les Impôts Elevées de Montréal".

 

[megalomania]

I appreciate the reply, but I'll disagree with your conclusion that we can keep two (and I assume remain competitive).

I wouldn't consider the current core competitive, last season's run notwithstanding. So no we wouldn't be competitive. I don't expect the Sens to be competitive (as in compete for the cup, not as in be a fringe playoff team) before Ryan's contract runs out - whether you trade Karlsson or not. Ultimately I'd rather build a core that may be competitive by 2021/22 or so around Karlsson and one of Duchene/Stone at approximately 20M than around Duchene and Stone at approximately 16M.

I don't think this is the case. Even with ELC/cheaper talent, we're going to have to pay players like Stone and Duchene significant money to keep them as soon as 2019-20. If our budget remains at 68 million, having Ryan leaves us at 60.5M we can actually spend, that's not even counting Gaborik+Phaneuf+MacArthur dead money. So there's value even in a rebuild of dumping Ryan with Karlsson.

I also don't think a rebuild these days takes quite as long as people think. With the parity of the NHL, teams can bounce back to playoff bubble team status very quickly.

With that said, whether or not we should bundle Ryan with Karlsson doesn't change that I think our current level of dead salary will prevent us from being competitive with Karlsson re-signed, that a rebuild around Duchene+Stone with Ryan's salary dumped in a Karl trade would be more effective if the end goal is to build the most successful team possible long term under a 68M budget.

I disagree. I'd say dumping Ryan is only better for building in the short term, for the next 3-4 years, because his dead money hinders us over this time. However to be even moderately successful in this term, Karlsson is irreplaceable. Over the long term, after Ryan's contract runs out anyway, we're better off having kept Karlsson, simply because he's still gonna be one of the better defensemen in the league.

As for the short turnaround: Ryan's got 4 years left. For 2 of those we're most probably gonna be running an Anderson-Condon tandem (I can't see us getting rid of either of them at this time) and the defense will continue to be quite bad on the whole. I honestly see very little chance this team competes before 2020/21 anyway. By that time in the best case scenario we have Dahlin, Brown and a few other prospects with one or two years of NHL experience who have become significant contributors. We probably have inexperienced goaltending. We don't have next years high 1st round pick for obvious reasons. Are these factors enough to propel the team to a contender?

Let's say we get rid of one of Stone or Duchene as you suggested, while the negative impact in the short term won't be as bad as if we lost Karlsson, I don't think Karlsson alone can lead a team like that to success. We'd also still have Ryan's dead salary on the books which will continue to handicap us....look at it this way, if by re-signing Karlsson we forgo the opportunity to dump Ryan, it's almost as if the opportunity cost of re-signing Karlsson would be 18-20 million per season under a (supposed) 68M budget. That is because by choosing to re-sign Karlsson, we've given up the opportunity to dump Ryan.....

So what I am proposing is a future where we have Duchene+Stone+Assets from Karlsson as a kick start to a rebuild/re-tool.

What you're proposing is a future where we have Karlsson+Only one of Stone or Duchene+Ryan's 7.5M salary+lesser assets from a Duchene or Stone trade.

By the time the relevant (Edit: in terms of my proposal) parts of the future roll around Ryan's salary won't be on the books anymore.

If we keep EK and do not dump Ryan, we'll have significantly more deficiencies than just a bad d-core. There just would not be money to address the sheer amount of holes that would need to be filled with Karl+Stone+Duchene+Ryan at roughly 38M combined. If we do not sign one of Duchene or Stone as your proposed in order to keep Karlsson, I don't think that's a solution. Losing Duchene for example would leave us with Pageau as our 1C until someone else develops into that role.

I don't disagree which is why I'm arguing that it's gonna take years for the Sens to fix these issues. Ultimately I'd rather fill the "franchise-player and 1D" plus the "1C or 1RW" hole for a combined 20M than the "1C" and the "1RW" for a combined 16M. I'll admit that one factor in my opinion is that I expect Karlsson to age better than Stone in particular.

The issue isn't that Karlsson might cost as much as 12.5M, the issue is that Karlsson might cost 12.5M, and we have double digits of bad money on the books for the next four seasons.

Let's say we win the lottery, and we draft Dahlin, who at minimum if he pans out will cost 7.5M (Ekblad) on an extension after his ELC and at most might cost 10M+. We should not have a problem locking him down at that money in 3 years time since we'd lose the Ryan money in a Karlsson trade, and Gaborik+Phaneuf will be off the books by then.

The thing is, there'll always be bad contracts to an extent. No GM hits it perfect, but the Sens situation isn't just bad contracts. It's a combination of both bad contracts, and the core players all reaching UFA or RFA arbitration age at the same time. All NHL teams are cyclical in how they are built. There needs to be superstars, and then underpaid ELC/RFA talent in order to keep the team competitive.

We've reached a stage where with not only there being a significant amount of bad money on the books, but also most of our core players have reached the end of their cheap contracts. These would be Stone, Karlsson, Duchene (Formerly Turris @ 3.5M), Ceci, Hoffman, and soon to be Pageau, Dzingel, (and would be Brassard if we didn't trade him)

It's not sustainable. We need to use Karlsson as a catalyst to start fresh. Dorion and co and absolved of getting us here, but they are right that we need to take one step (a big one) back in order to take two steps forward.

I see your point about the combination of bad contracts and the core players being due for next contracts at around the same time. On the other hand, players like Ceci, Pageau, Dzingel and so on are absolutely replaceable - when two of that caliber of players reach the end of their contracts, you can let one go and re-sign the other one with the money you just freed up. You obviously need a constant stream of young NHL-ready players for that to work, but you need those in any case if you want to counteract the cyclical nature as much as you can. Similarly, if you luck into Dahlin and he turns into a 10M player, you have to decide whether he becomes part of your core (and you drop another player from your core to free the money) or not. Ultimately that kind of approach isn't gonna produce a contender with a budget of 68M, but then again, we're in agreement on that problem.

I guess a part of what my argument is based on is the hope that Melnyk will have to sell soon and a new owner will be willing to spend more on the roster. If that happens I'd rather Karlsson is still around because of the big three he's the least replaceable purely be spending more.

I should also say that I haven't really considered the difference of salary vs. cap yet. Say we re-sign Karlsson to an 11M contract, his salary is probably gonna be 14M or more during the first few years. Similarly for Duchene and Stone - if we sign them for around 8M, their first few years are gonna be more expensive. Karlsson, Duchene and Ryan might well cost over 30M in salary combined in 2019/2020 (I'm deliberately using Duchene here because in case of Stone a back-loaded contract might be more realistic cause he's still RFA). In that case there may well be no other possibility than trading Karlsson and Ryan. I'd still maintain that it's the worse scenario over the long term though.

Btw I very much agree with Bonk as to the quality of your posts. I'm kinda hooked to this discussion even though it's 2AM on a Saturday morning and I'm a bit drunk

 

[megalomania]

I would argue that rather than not re-signing one of those 3 to make the other 2 fit, we can trade guys like Smith, Ceci, Pageau and even Hoffman & Dzingel if we have to in order to make room for that 3rd guy. Then we have staggered expiring contracts like Burrows, Gaborik, Condon, Anderson & Macarthur over the next 3 years to help. Just have to manage the next couple years somehow. I say sign your best 3 players and make the rest fit around them, kind of like what Pittsburgh and Chicago had to do. They identified their priorities and jettisoned the lower priority guys eating salary even if there was some pain involved.

I'm not sure this is possible at this stage. We have to consider that any player we drop to pay for the big 3 needs to be replaced by someone who is probably not gonna cost less than 900k. So let's take all these guys' salaries for next year:

Smith 3.25 -> 0.9
Ceci 3.35 -> 0.9
Pageau 3.3 -> 0.9
Dzingel 2.1 -> 0.9

total savings of 8.4 million

Then we're gonna re-sign the big 3 (also using their salaries for next year):

Stone 4.5 -> 8
Duchene 6.5 -> 8
Karlsson 7.5 -> 11

total raises of 8 million

However those numbers I just put there are cap hits I just pulled out of nowhere. I believe it's reasonable to say that Karlsson and Duchene at least are gonna get contracts that pay them more in the beginning, so the raises in terms of salary may well be higher. In that case we'd also have to drop Hoffman, leaving us with a roster of the big 3, some old overpaid players which we probably can't trade, and a bunch of fringe NHL guys (we're probably not gonna find 5 good quality players for 900k each and our current fourth line is quite dire too). We've essentially dropped all the lower priority guys. I don't think going that far is viable - you might as well rebuild completely at that point.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Haven't read all five pages, so this is probably a repeat by now...

While I do like the message, and want to hear it, it does feel like it's a bit of a power move on Erik. Setting up the team for a "we tried to sign him but he wouldn't budge on his price" kind of explanation later on. Making Erik the bad guy for not taking a discounted price.

I hope I'm wrong on that, and he does sign...for a fair price for both him and the team.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

Dorion is a visionary. He can see the future

 

[albator71]

The Leafs were amazing without Matthews. I'd think that unless the goaltending is lights out, a team without Karlsson is closer to the team we have seen the last two games than in those October games.

you might be right because even when Karlsson is playing we're a bad team.

 

[salomonster]

If they win the lottery, obviously get Dahlin but they won't because this season the team is jinxed we should hand over the pick to CO. The next 2 years the drafts will be tremendously deeper.

Sign 65 at all costs. Invest Eug' or piss off.

 

[Answer]

Why should we resign Karlsson? He has like 5 years left of his prime. Why waste a generational player on one of the worst teams in past 5 years or so, and yes we are one of the worst teams in every single way if you minus Karlsson from the equation. I have never seen a generational player being wasted like this. So, signing Karlsson doesn't really help either parties, unless, the organization actually go out of their way to and do what its needs to be done to make this team a legitimate contender.

It is laughable that Karlsson's best team mate he has ever played with has been an aging Alfredsson, and a back-spasm riddled Spezza.

And don't get me started with the D core he has to play with and how much of a load he single handedly had to carry so far..

Aging Gonchar (when Karlsson was still young)
Methot - nothing special, just a good shutdown defenseman

Aging and a slow Phaneuf

Cowan
Wierciock
Ceci
Boro
Wideman
Cleasson

Just a bunch load of circus, nothing more, nothing less


Now compare that with all the other generational defensemen, and his current competition (Hedman, Burns, Doughty etc..)

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Not gonna bother reading this entire thread but my thoughts are that to me this is only lip service until things actually get done. They're panicking right now with many season ticket holders holding out on renewing so they're saying what the fans want to hear.

I won't change my opinion until I see real, positive change.

 

[Flamingo]

Good. Hopefully this ends Dorion's m.o. of saying he'll listen to trade offers to the media. Maybe it's always true, GMs listen to trade offers when the team is underperforming and a big contract is on the horizon. But to have a GM spouting internal policy like he's a politician answering questions about party policy, I imagine that's rough on the players and their families. A GM needs to be more taciturn about these kinds of decisions. Hopefully Erik stays and the contract doesn't handcuff the team down the road, but Dorion needs to make the right decision for the team, and don't operate like he's hosting career day with reporters.

 

[Brannstorm]

Haven't read all five pages, so this is probably a repeat by now...

While I do like the message, and want to hear it, it does feel like it's a bit of a power move on Erik. Setting up the team for a "we tried to sign him but he wouldn't budge on his price" kind of explanation later on. Making Erik the bad guy for not taking a discounted price.

I hope I'm wrong on that, and he does sign...for a fair price for both him and the team.

Also it might up the return at the draft haha.

Gm "What could I do to pry Karlsson from you?" Dorion "Can't, promised ticketholders I would try to keep him.... Unlesss..."

 

[Tuna99]

Sooooooo, we're at the point where good news in Ottawa is the GM and Owner are going to offer the franchises best ever player and best defenceman since Bobby Orr a contract offer.

I knew it was bad, I didn't realize that we are now taking conversations that will happen in July as good news and proof the ownership is mentally stable.

What happened to this franchise? How bad is the leadership at the top that offering Erik Karlsson a contract is goood news?

 

[Arkantoss]

On July 1st 2018 Erik Karlsson, Mark Stone and Matt Duchene will sign contract extensions with the Ottawa Senators.

 

[Tuna99]

On July 1st 2018 Erik Karlsson, Mark Stone and Matt Duchene will sign contract extensions with the Ottawa Senators.

So when we are Ryan, Borrows and Gaborik getting abducted by Aliens.....

Or is it

When is Eugene Melnyck getting abducted by Aliens.....

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

So when we are Ryan, Borrows and Gaborik getting abducted by Aliens.....

Or is it

When is Eugene Melnyck getting abducted by Aliens.....

Let aliens abduct all of 'em.

 

[bert]

Not gonna bother reading this entire thread but my thoughts are that to me this is only lip service until things actually get done. They're panicking right now with many season ticket holders holding out on renewing so they're saying what the fans want to hear.

I won't change my opinion until I see real, positive change.

This is bang on. No real truth to the matter other than an attempt to save season ticket holders who are running away from this franchise right now.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It was a solid conference call, and PD said all of the right things, and personally all of the things I wanted to hear.

Obviously I expect him to follow through on the things mentioned, but I'm not going to act like he just outright lied to everyone just to hold off the wolves for a few weeks. He's been very honest, and perhaps too open up to this point, there really is no reason to shrug everything off as meaningless.

You have to say the right things as well as do the right things, and one generally comes before the other. So far he has said the right things.

Folks have argued tooth and nail that they have a right to be angry about the team, and that PD and management as a whole have a duty to provide a solid product for the fans. Then when he comes out and talks a little about his plans for the EK and going forward he gets slammed by some of the same folks for trying to allay fan worries.

It really doesn't matter what is said and done it would seem as some posters are still 100% against everything Ottawa Senators related.

 

[Sensung]

I appreciate the reply, but I'll disagree with your conclusion that we can keep two (and I assume remain competitive).

"Adding Ryan onto him does nothing for a rebuild because by the time a re-built team would be competitive and the young talent you've gained need new contracts after their ELC, his money is gonna be off the books anyway."

I don't think this is the case. Even with ELC/cheaper talent, we're going to have to pay players like Stone and Duchene significant money to keep them as soon as 2019-20. If our budget remains at 68 million, having Ryan leaves us at 60.5M we can actually spend, that's not even counting Gaborik+Phaneuf+MacArthur dead money. So there's value even in a rebuild of dumping Ryan with Karlsson.

I also don't think a rebuild these days takes quite as long as people think. With the parity of the NHL, teams can bounce back to playoff bubble team status very quickly.

With that said, whether or not we should bundle Ryan with Karlsson doesn't change that I think our current level of dead salary will prevent us from being competitive with Karlsson re-signed, that a rebuild around Duchene+Stone with Ryan's salary dumped in a Karl trade would be more effective if the end goal is to build the most successful team possible long term under a 68M budget.

Let's say we get rid of one of Stone or Duchene as you suggested, while the negative impact in the short term won't be as bad as if we lost Karlsson, I don't think Karlsson alone can lead a team like that to success. We'd also still have Ryan's dead salary on the books which will continue to handicap us....look at it this way, if by re-signing Karlsson we forgo the opportunity to dump Ryan, it's almost as if the opportunity cost of re-signing Karlsson would be 18-20 million per season under a (supposed) 68M budget. That is because by choosing to re-sign Karlsson, we've given up the opportunity to dump Ryan.....

So what I am proposing is a future where we have Duchene+Stone+Assets from Karlsson as a kick start to a rebuild/re-tool.

What you're proposing is a future where we have Karlsson+Only one of Stone or Duchene+Ryan's 7.5M salary+lesser assets from a Duchene or Stone trade.


"If we let EK go our D is horrendous and there's little reason to think that would change quickly unless we somehow end up drafting two dmen in the top 8 of this upcoming draft."

If we keep EK and do not dump Ryan, we'll have significantly more deficiencies than just a bad d-core. There just would not be money to address the sheer amount of holes that would need to be filled with Karl+Stone+Duchene+Ryan at roughly 38M combined. If we do not sign one of Duchene or Stone as your proposed in order to keep Karlsson, I don't think that's a solution. Losing Duchene for example would leave us with Pageau as our 1C until someone else develops into that role.

"Ultimately a team is never gonna be a contender on a strict budget like the Sens are on right now. "

I agree completely. I don't think we'll ever be a contender under our current budget, but I think we can build a more competitive team long term via bundling Ryan with Karlsson and going through a rebuild that way.


"That's not only because nearly every team has some bad contracts (not to the extent the Sens currently do mind you) but also because there won't be many bridge contracts for top young talent anymore. We've seen it with McDavid, Eichel, Ekblad, Draisaitl and we're gonna see more of that soon with players like Matthews, Werenski, Boeser, Barzal and so on. We can trade EK now and try to go for a full rebuild, but even if we luck into drafting the next superstar of a similar caliber (very unlikely) he's gonna cost 10+ million after his ELC - leaving us right back where we are now. Or we rebuild, don't luck into drafting a superstar, and end up back on the fringe of the playoffs until the new core creeps towards their UFA years."

The issue isn't that Karlsson might cost as much as 12.5M, the issue is that Karlsson might cost 12.5M, and we have double digits of bad money on the books for the next four seasons.

Let's say we win the lottery, and we draft Dahlin, who at minimum if he pans out will cost 7.5M (Ekblad) on an extension after his ELC and at most might cost 10M+. We should not have a problem locking him down at that money in 3 years time since we'd lose the Ryan money in a Karlsson trade, and Gaborik+Phaneuf will be off the books by then.

The thing is, there'll always be bad contracts to an extent. No GM hits it perfect, but the Sens situation isn't just bad contracts. It's a combination of both bad contracts, and the core players all reaching UFA or RFA arbitration age at the same time. All NHL teams are cyclical in how they are built. There needs to be superstars, and then underpaid ELC/RFA talent in order to keep the team competitive.

We've reached a stage where with not only there being a significant amount of bad money on the books, but also most of our core players have reached the end of their cheap contracts. These would be Stone, Karlsson, Duchene (Formerly Turris @ 3.5M), Ceci, Hoffman, and soon to be Pageau, Dzingel, (and would be Brassard if we didn't trade him)

It's not sustainable. We need to use Karlsson as a catalyst to start fresh. Dorion and co and absolved of getting us here, but they are right that we need to take one step (a big one) back in order to take two steps forward.

Ryan can be moved in a separate move. There is ZERO need to trade Karlsson and no justifiable rationale for including Ryan deal if you are idiotic enough to deal EK.

Sorry, but there are numerous expendable players you move first. Keep EK, Stone and Duchene and build your roster around them.

 

[Sensung]

you might be right because even when Karlsson is playing we're a bad team.

With an injured Karlsson recovering from injury.

It isn't a coincidence that we look so much better as he got healthier. No player in the NHL has a bigger impact on their team's performance.

 

[Sensung]

On July 1st 2018 Erik Karlsson, Mark Stone and Matt Duchene will sign contract extensions with the Ottawa Senators.

One can dream!

In my dream they are announced with new ownership and a cap budget.

 

[Tundraman]

The Sens have to get out of being cash strapped so they can re-sign Karlsson, Duchene and Stone. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and pay the price for bad past decisions so (Dahlin aside) imo they should seriously consider offering up this year's 1st (if top 10) and Ryan (no salary retention) in exchange for the other team's 1st plus a 1 year bad contract (but only 1 year) to make it more palatable. They could use this opportunity to flip another contract like Smith if it can be done but not if it does not include Ryan or if it adds another bad contract longer than 1 year. In any trades the bad contract(s) have to expire before Duchene and Karlsson's new deals kick in. They'd have to do more to get all 3 inside their self imposed budget considering other players are or will be due for raises but it's a serious start. Buying out Gaborik could save a bit over $2M net diff for next season and about $1M net diff for the next 2 season's beyond that when you factor the annual payout plus a cheap replacement roster player. If they buy him out this summer there would be an additional carryover payout of about $1.2M for another 3 years after that but by then Phaneuf's 25% salary retention will be off the books.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Ryan can be moved in a separate move. There is ZERO need to trade Karlsson and no justifiable rationale for including Ryan deal if you are idiotic enough to deal EK.

Sorry, but there are numerous expendable players you move first. Keep EK, Stone and Duchene and build your roster around them.

Would you move Chabot with Ryan? What about our pick this year if it's a top 3-5 pick int he draft?

It's going to cost a ridiculous amount to get someone to take that contract. There has never been a comparable contract dumped in the cap era.

 

[Karl Prime]

you might be right because even when Karlsson is playing we're a bad team.

With bad Karlsson and bad goaltending, we're a bad team. With generational EK and solid goaltending we're a bubble team.