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[Zorf]

EK and Doughty can say they want market value, but there is no market set for guys like them. Dorion and Blake are going to be setting the market when they sign these guys.

I think Doughty comes in at an even $10M and Karlsson gets $10.5M.


I can't imagine anyone except for maybe Bergevin giving Tavares more than McDavid. Habs are just that desperate for a 1C.

 

[topshelf15]

EK and Doughty can say they want market value, but there is no market set for guys like them. Dorion and Blake are going to be setting the market when they sign these guys.

I think Doughty comes in at an even $10M and Karlsson gets $10.5M.


I can't imagine anyone except for maybe Bergevin giving Tavares more than McDavid. Habs are just that desperate for a 1C.

Yep and that would be a huge mistake,JT makes them a bubble team little more

 

[stempniaksen]

EK and Doughty can say they want market value, but there is no market set for guys like them. Dorion and Blake are going to be setting the market when they sign these guys.

I think Doughty comes in at an even $10M and Karlsson gets $10.5M.


I can't imagine anyone except for maybe Bergevin giving Tavares more than McDavid. Habs are just that desperate for a 1C.

Carolina Hurricanes come to mind. Their new owner doesn't seem to be messing around, and not many teams are in a better position cap-wise.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

EK and Doughty can say they want market value, but there is no market set for guys like them. Dorion and Blake are going to be setting the market when they sign these guys.

I think Doughty comes in at an even $10M and Karlsson gets $10.5M.


I can't imagine anyone except for maybe Bergevin giving Tavares more than McDavid. Habs are just that desperate for a 1C.

Karlsson was called a top 3 player in the league along with Crosby+McDavid. Crosby's contract is extremely out dated due to being signed under the previous CBA that didn't have an 8 year limit, McDavid just signed for 12.5M.

Dorion and Blake won't set the market. The players will set the market based on their willingness to stay, or to test free agency. 10.5M is the absolute low end I see either of them signing for, unless it's a unique situation where they sign in a low tax city and take a team friendly deal.

Subban makes 9.5M, so it seems silly for Doughty to claim he thinks he deserves more than Subban and then settle for a mere 500k more when the salary cap by the time Doughty's extension kicks in could be as high as 82-85 million. To put things in perspective, if the cap only rises to 82M by the 2019 off season, the equivalent to Subban's contract would be about 10.7M....if it rises up to 85M the equivalent would be 11M.

These players are looking at a cap that is about to rise what might be a record amount from season to season.....they have already let it be known that they intend to maximize their value....Not a good situation for anybody hoping to get them signed to a "reasonable" cap hit.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

On the idea of Tavares pushing salaries forward....he doesn't have to sign for max.....even if he signs for 13.5 or 14 million, that's only 1 or 1.5 million more than McDavid, but that would effectively push contracts forward as it relates to a Karlsson extension.

At that point, instead of being able to justify 12.5M as a ceiling to Karlsson, we get put in a position where Karlsson can justify 13.5M or 14M as a ceiling to us when negotiating.

If Tavares goes and re-signs with the Islanders for 8 years 10.5M or 7 years 11.5M else where, all of a sudden, we have a very positive comparable to use.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Seems like a change from the deadline presser when it was "if Karlsson is here July 1st we'll offer him a contract.

Maybe they finally realized how much he means to the fanbase. #MelnykOut worked!

Well please remember that it was Karlsson who started this ball rolling, on November 29th when he said “When I go to market, I’m going to get what I’m worth, and it’s going to be no less, no matter where I’m going,”

This is how rumoured (about a possible trade) get started, and when reporters heard about players submitting their list of teams they don't agree to be traded to (as per their contract obligations, every season) they created this narrative of a possible trade as the Trade Deadline approached.

 

[Six Assets]

PR Dorion. Said all the right stuff today.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Like all players of his caliber he’s getting a Full NMC effective from the immediate signing date.

Trading after an extension would only be to a team of his approval

Pretty sure the terms of his current contract are in force until July 1st 2019.

He can sign an extension anytime after July 1st this year, but he's still inthelast year of his current contract, unless the CBA allows what you're suggesting, but I don't know that it does.

 

[Karl Prime]

Well please remember that it was Karlsson who started this ball rolling, on November 29th when he said “When I go to market, I’m going to get what I’m worth, and it’s going to be no less, no matter where I’m going,”

This is how rumoured (about a possible trade) get started, and when reporters heard about players submitting their list of teams they don't agree to be traded to (as per their contract obligations, every season) they created this narrative of a possible trade as the Trade Deadline approached.

And the Sens would be stupid to think that Karlsson would want anything less than full value.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I think he can tell Erik, behind closed doors, look we know you don't get along with Eugene.
.

And you know this based on what?

 

[aragorn]

On the idea of Tavares pushing salaries forward....he doesn't have to sign for max.....even if he signs for 13.5 or 14 million, that's only 1 or 1.5 million more than McDavid, but that would effectively push contracts forward as it relates to a Karlsson extension.

At that point, instead of being able to justify 12.5M as a ceiling to Karlsson, we get put in a position where Karlsson can justify 13.5M or 14M as a ceiling to us when negotiating.

If Tavares goes and re-signs with the Islanders for 8 years 10.5M or 7 years 11.5M else where, all of a sudden, we have a very positive comparable to use.

But don't you also have to include the tax structure of the province or state that the player plays in? For example Karlsson making $12 mil in Ontario when the tax rate for people making over $1 million is I think slightly over 50% while Subban for example playing in Nashville, Tennessee pays next to no income tax. Even if Karlsson were to make $3 or $4 mil more than Subban would he lose a good portion of it to income tax? In Sweden I imagine he would paid a great deal of tax as well although I assume his primary residence now is Ottawa. Lots to consider for Karlsson & the Sens in these negotiations.

 

[JD1]

A worst case scenario, Karlsson+Stone+Duchene would combine for 28.5 million dollars (12.5 for Karlsson, 8M each for Stone+Duchene).

Add the opportunity cost lost with dumping Ryan, and now we're talking about 36 million dollars from 2019-20/20-21/21-22 on Stone+Duchene+Ryan.

Buyout Gaborik....during that same period, we have an additional average of 2.7M per season on the books for the first 2 years of Karl's extension via Gaborik+Phaneuf.

Mac will have 950k on the books during year 1 of a Karl extension....

So we could potentially be looking at this to keep Karlsson+Stone+Duchene and miss the opportunity of dumping Ryan with Karlsson....

Cost of keeping Karlsson+Duchene+Stone
2018-19: 25.8M
2019-20: 39.8M
2020-21: 38.5M
2021-22: 37.2M
2022-23: 29.7M

So it's not as simple as just purging the rest of the roster to keep them all because of our 68 million dollar budget. We would have between 28-30 million dollars to spend on an additional 19 skaters for the three seasons from 2019-2022. That means, we'd be limited to spending 1.5M per skater.

It also has to be noted that if guys like Chabot break out, they'll require major raises, which would further complicate things.

It's pretty much impossible to compete in this situation. So we can spend an average of 1.5M per skater, later on becoming a farm team for the rest of the league because we'll have to liquidate anybody who overperforms their way to star money, and if we make even minor mistakes with extensions and overpay even a 3rd liner, it will have potential to sink us....

It is a very harsh reality, but the reality is that under the conditions the Senators operate under, and with the bad money we already have on the books, the best option is to trade Karl+Ryan for a huge package of futures/young NHLers and rebuild with the intention of starting our "peak" 2-3 years from now. It goes against the grain of what most people would typically assume which is that when you have a player like Karlsson, it never makes sense not to keep them, but the situation we're in is the exception to the rule.

Blame Melnyk for his internal budget, blame management for paying players who have sunk us with bad contracts, blame those players for not living up to their contracts.....regardless of who people want to blame, it doesn't change the fact that we have to operate within the rules of the game that have been laid out for us.

The current rules? We have a 68M budget and double digits of wasted salary. Unfortunately, that means trading Karlsson is the best play right now if we want to be as successful as possible long term.

why do you assume the budget is 68?

 

[branch]

And you know this based on what?

Give it a rest man...jesus

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Recently, it happened with Carey Price. He signed his big extension, and his previous M-NTC was retroactively changed to a full NMC.

Thanks, did not know that ............ so EK65 should ask for the same clause, to be retroactively added to his current contract.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Give it a rest man...jesus

If you're going to say stuff like that, don't you expect that you be asked to back it up?

Seeing how you could not, now we know.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

why do you assume the budget is 68?

Why do you assume our budget is not 68M?

 

[branch]

If you're going to say stuff like that, don't you expect that you be asked to back it up?

Seeing how you could not, now we know.

Ok.

 

[albator71]

How many of you here can guarantee me that if we resigned Karlsson we are sure to make playoffs next season? Because if we are going to spend that kind of cash on one player, he better takes us to the playoffs, otherwise its not a good investment.

Because if we are going to be a bubble team with Karlsson, i prefer we trade him and get as much assets back in return. Whats the point of keeping Karlsson if we cant surround him with the absolute best roster.

The problem with this franchise is that they're always "lukewarm" they are never all in, or they're never commited to a full blown rebuilt. They need to make up their damn mind here!

 

[danielpalfredsson]

If you're going to say stuff like that, don't you expect that you be asked to back it up?

Seeing how you could not, now we know.

Our budget is well publicized, and I am always more than happy to share links, back up my statements, or further elaborate on anything I post. The same way that I always appreciate when people do the same if I ask, because it helps me learn more about each topic.

Why should people be expected to engage or put effort in with a low effort reply that is just meant to de-rail the discussion and not actually contribute? This isn't the first time that exact poster JD1 has made similar low effort comments when people talk about a 68M budget, and has been given an answer. Then he doesn't contribute anything further. It's lame.

If someone is gonna be lame, they should expect other people to treat them the same way.

 

[Engineer]

Except in EK's case, he'll still have a full year left on his current contract that comes with just a 10-team NTC. I don't think the NMC from the new contract could kick in until the new contract actually begins, which would be July 1, 2019.


**I may be wrong**

No problem, honest mistake, Price is an example that the NMC can be added early.

Pretty sure the terms of his current contract are in force until July 1st 2019.

He can sign an extension anytime after July 1st this year, but he's still inthelast year of his current contract, unless the CBA allows what you're suggesting, but I don't know that it does.

Pretty sure, actually no, 100% certain you’re wrong like usual.

NMC can be added to existing contract at the time of extension. Since you always so annoying ask for proof, as already stated Price is an example. Waiting your admittance that you don’t know what your talking about and posted without researching like usual.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

More on the conference here.
Embattled Senators owner Eugene Melnyk to hold town halls with fans
I'm pretty sure Dorion mentioned earlier that sometimes you need to take a step back to take 2 steps forward.

 

[Hale The Villain]

We need Karlsson. NEED him. Our team is quite atrocious without him.

We need to make sure we know if we have him or not before we decide to draft #6 or not. If we play a full season with a D of

Chabot-Ceci
Harpur-Boro
xxx-xxx

We are going to be coming bottom 2 for sure.

And it's not just the D. We are going to have Anderson and Condon as our goalies next year, and both guys have struggled to keep their SV% about .900 this year.

The past couple games are just a taste of what this team will be like without EK playing 25-30 minutes a night.

 

[Sun God Nika]

EK and Doughty can say they want market value, but there is no market set for guys like them. Dorion and Blake are going to be setting the market when they sign these guys.

I think Doughty comes in at an even $10M and Karlsson gets $10.5M.


I can't imagine anyone except for maybe Bergevin giving Tavares more than McDavid. Habs are just that desperate for a 1C.

having half your salary cap locked up in Weber, Price and Johnny T for the next 8 years sounds nice

 

[Sensung]

How many of you here can guarantee me that if we resigned Karlsson we are sure to make playoffs next season? Because if we are going to spend that kind of cash on one player, he better takes us to the playoffs, otherwise its not a good investment.

Because if we are going to be a bubble team with Karlsson, i prefer we trade him and get as much assets back in return. Whats the point of keeping Karlsson if we cant surround him with the absolute best roster.

The problem with this franchise is that they're always "lukewarm" they are never all in, or they're never commited to a full blown rebuilt. They need to make up their damn mind here!

And then when one or more of those assets turn into a top 3 player in the league, we can trade them away for more magic beans...

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[Answer]

If we re-sign Karlsson then we need to go all in as being serious contenders. We need a legitimate 2nd line centre (and no Pageau won't cut it), a legitimate top pairing defenseman, along with a proven top4 defenseman, and finally a goal-tender (Anderson is past his prime, and if anything, can only be a back up, and same with Condon)

Hoffman - Duchene - Dzingal
Ryan - (#2 Centre) - Stone
MSP - Pageau - White
Smith/Mcormick - Chlapik - Pyatt

(#2 Defenseman) - Karlsson
(#3/4 Defenseman) - Chabot
Ceci / Boro / Cleasson / Wolanin