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Emerica

Registered User
May 29, 2010
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Lol why wouldn't they?
- Here's 6x6 extension Erik. No? Well we went above and beyond and he just doesn't want to sign here.
This.

I’m glad he said it publicly but I’m not going to believe it until he’s re-signed. It’s one thing to say you’re going to offer him a contract and it’s another to say you’re going to get something done. Even then, didn’t he go out and say the same thing about Turris at the start of the season?
 

Sun God Nika

Palestine 🇵🇸
Apr 22, 2013
20,202
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Palestine 🇵🇸
I guess one thing to be happy about is that they heard the fans and the uproar that even the thought of trading EK will lead to loss in ticket sales and revenue that Pierre had to address it before the questions were asked.
 

Engineer

Rustled your jimmies
Dec 23, 2013
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Doesn't the statement "When we can offer Erik a contract on July 1st, we will do so" instead of "if Erik is still here on July 1st, we will offer him a contract" heavily imply that they will keep up until July 1st? This doesn't mean they won't trade him after, or a contract won't be signed, but I thought that statement implied that they will, at the very least, offer a contract. Although at this point it is all semantics.

Like all players of his caliber he’s getting a Full NMC effective from the immediate signing date.

Trading after an extension would only be to a team of his approval
 

BatherSeason

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Jun 16, 2009
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#MelnykOut worked!

I strongly believe that they did not trade him at the TDL because of the negative backlash they were receiving online as well as the feedback on season ticket renewals or in the Sens case, non-renewals.

I also believe that they, for some reason, thought that the fanbase would buy-in to a Karlsson trade, they severely mis-judged the fanbase, again, now Dorion has to come up with a new plan on how to approach the fanbase with a Karlsson fire sale. Step 1 started today, some people actually still believe the things that come out of PD's mouth, so to a certain extent, Dorion has somewhat succeeded today..
 
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danielpalfredsson

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Aug 14, 2013
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Doesn't the statement "When we can offer Erik a contract on July 1st, we will do so" instead of "if Erik is still here on July 1st, we will offer him a contract" heavily imply that they will keep up until July 1st? This doesn't mean they won't trade him after, or a contract won't be signed, but I thought that statement implied that they will, at the very least, offer a contract. Although at this point it is all semantics.

No, because if they were going to keep him until July 1st, why wouldn't they say so more directly?

That'd be hugely beneficial for them to be able to come out and say "We are 100 percent not trading Erik Karlsson before July 1st".

The only reason not to say it is because it isn't true....
 

Deku

I'm off the planet
Nov 5, 2011
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No, because if they were going to keep him until July 1st, why wouldn't they say so more directly?

That'd be hugely beneficial for them to be able to come out and say "We are 100 percent not trading Erik Karlsson before July 1st".

The only reason not to say it is because it isn't true....

It sounds to me like they don’t intend on trading him before July 1st, but aren’t writing it off in case someone meets their demands

If they do trade him before July 1st then Dorian’s statement about giving him a contract offer is pretty much a lie
 
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danielpalfredsson

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It sounds to me like they don’t intend on trading him before July 1st, but aren’t writing it off in case someone meets their demands

I think it's the opposite, they intend to trade him prior to July 1st but aren't writing off negotiating with him in case someone doesn't meet their demands.....

Gotta consider, after July 1st, Karlsson gets to re-do his no trade list....that could severely complicate trading Karlsson and getting a maximum return.

Both sides can't talk contracts prior to that date, but they can still communicate to each other....in fact that's exactly what Karlsson did when he responded to the Doughty remark and enforced that he wants market value and what he is worth, and that he will not take a discount for Ottawa.

The point I am trying to illustrate is that Dorion probably has a very good idea of Karlsson's intentions and desires regarding a trade or extension despite not being allowed to straight up ask him "would you sign here for x amount of years at x amount of dollars."
 

Joider

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Aug 13, 2012
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No, because if they were going to keep him until July 1st, why wouldn't they say so more directly?

That'd be hugely beneficial for them to be able to come out and say "We are 100 percent not trading Erik Karlsson before July 1st".

The only reason not to say it is because it isn't true....

The problem with that is, from a certain interpretation, "When we can offer Erik a contract on July 1st, we will do so" and "We are 100 percent not trading Erik Karlsson before July 1st" could effectively be considered the same statement. So, it wouldn't need to be said more directly. If you don't agree that's fine. I see the first statement more as an "if we don't get a legendary offer he will be here July 1st" than "he will absolutely not be traded" but like I said we're arguing about semantics so neither position is particularly strong. Doesn't mean the statement isn't true, or that it absolutely is.

He could still be traded after if things don't go well.
 

danielpalfredsson

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The problem with that is, from a certain interpretation, "When we can offer Erik a contract on July 1st, we will do so" and "We are 100 percent not trading Erik Karlsson before July 1st" could effectively be considered the same statement. So, it wouldn't need to be said more directly. If you don't agree that's fine. I see the first statement more as an "if we don't get a legendary offer he will be here July 1st" than "he will absolutely not be traded" but like I said we're arguing about semantics so neither position is particularly strong. Doesn't mean the statement isn't true, or that it absolutely is.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.
 

branch

#GirlBoss #Vibes
Jan 12, 2008
8,914
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I think he can tell Erik, behind closed doors, look we know you don't get along with Eugene. Sign this contract for whatever you want, and if you still are on shitty terms with Eugene down the road and you want to leave, you have my word that we will move you to wherever you want.

I also think this whole saga will make him realize how entrenched he is in the city. The massive outpouring of support will hopefully endear the city to him, and make him want to stick around.
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
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Nobody is talking about it but because the Oilers are going to miss the playoffs they are thinking of trading McDavid.

True Story...........................................if Melnyck owner the Oilers

The fact that Dorion has to defend his owner in a press conference is sad. Has a Sarah Huckabee-Sanders feel to it
 
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Rand0m

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Oct 2, 2011
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I still believe that the Sens can make whatever offer they want to Karlsson, but he has no interest to be part of any team owned by Melnyk.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

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Oct 16, 2006
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I just want them to prioritize our 3 best players in Karlsson, Duchene & Stone and worry about how the rest fits around them later. IDGAF if it means having to lose guys like Ceci, Pageau, Smith, etc. if we get to keep our best trio of players. Enough with prioritizing the complimentary pieces. We have plenty of money coming off the books staggered over the next few years, we just need to weather the storm and possibly cut bait with a couple guys we would otherwise prefer not too.
 

topshelf15

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May 5, 2009
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I still believe that the Sens can make whatever offer they want to Karlsson, but he has no interest to be part of any team owned by Melnyk.
Yep cant see it either,of course that will start the exodus...EM will issue a statement that he offered the same money....But off course it will be without context.....

I mean EK giving a discount to a free spending owner,is far different than him giving one to a proven tightwad...
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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The problem with that is, from a certain interpreteation, "When we can offer Erik a contract on July 1st, we will do so" and "We are 100 percent not trading Erik Karlsson before July 1st" could effectively be considered the same statement. So, it wouldn't need to be said more directly. If you don't agree that's fine. I see the first statement more as an "if we don't get a legendary offer he will be here July 1st" than "he will absolutely not be traded" but like I said we're arguing about semantics so neither position is particularly strong. Doesn't mean the statement isn't true, or that it absolutely is.

He could still be traded after if things don't go well.

I would have preferred a firmer statement.. but I may be reading too much into it.. My guess is we will hear more Erik Karlsson news regarding teams calling with interest in Karlsson with Dorion, taking the calls, listening and negotiating prior to July 1. By Dorion not saying he is definitively Not Trading Erik Karlsson prior to July 1st .. I personally don't think much has changed. I just think he left out the "If" this time.

How much Ballpark would EK want to stay and how much are the Sens prepared to pay him
IMO they have to have some idea now. no way of being sure.
 
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topshelf15

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May 5, 2009
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I would have preferred a firmer statement.. but I may be reading too much into it.. My guess is we will hear more Erik Karlsson news regarding teams calling with interest in Karlsson with Dorion, taking the calls, listening and negotiating prior to July 1. By Dorion not saying he is definitively Not Trading Erik Karlsson prior to July 1st .. I personally don't think much has changed. I just think he left out the "If" this time.
Yep ,if EK goes then we may just as well move the others ...Cant see a guy like Duchene wanting to stick around
 

danielpalfredsson

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Aug 14, 2013
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I just want them to prioritize our 3 best players in Karlsson, Duchene & Stone and worry about how the rest fits around them later. IDGAF if it means having to lose guys like Ceci, Pageau, Smith, etc. if we get to keep our best trio of players. Enough with prioritizing the complimentary pieces. We have plenty of money coming off the books staggered over the next few years, we just need to weather the storm and possibly cut bait with a couple guys we would otherwise prefer not too.

A worst case scenario, Karlsson+Stone+Duchene would combine for 28.5 million dollars (12.5 for Karlsson, 8M each for Stone+Duchene).

Add the opportunity cost lost with dumping Ryan, and now we're talking about 36 million dollars from 2019-20/20-21/21-22 on Stone+Duchene+Ryan.

Buyout Gaborik....during that same period, we have an additional average of 2.7M per season on the books for the first 2 years of Karl's extension via Gaborik+Phaneuf.

Mac will have 950k on the books during year 1 of a Karl extension....

So we could potentially be looking at this to keep Karlsson+Stone+Duchene and miss the opportunity of dumping Ryan with Karlsson....

Cost of keeping Karlsson+Duchene+Stone
2018-19: 25.8M
2019-20: 39.8M
2020-21: 38.5M
2021-22: 37.2M
2022-23: 29.7M

So it's not as simple as just purging the rest of the roster to keep them all because of our 68 million dollar budget. We would have between 28-30 million dollars to spend on an additional 19 skaters for the three seasons from 2019-2022. That means, we'd be limited to spending 1.5M per skater.

It also has to be noted that if guys like Chabot break out, they'll require major raises, which would further complicate things.

It's pretty much impossible to compete in this situation. So we can spend an average of 1.5M per skater, later on becoming a farm team for the rest of the league because we'll have to liquidate anybody who overperforms their way to star money, and if we make even minor mistakes with extensions and overpay even a 3rd liner, it will have potential to sink us....

It is a very harsh reality, but the reality is that under the conditions the Senators operate under, and with the bad money we already have on the books, the best option is to trade Karl+Ryan for a huge package of futures/young NHLers and rebuild with the intention of starting our "peak" 2-3 years from now. It goes against the grain of what most people would typically assume which is that when you have a player like Karlsson, it never makes sense not to keep them, but the situation we're in is the exception to the rule.

Blame Melnyk for his internal budget, blame management for paying players who have sunk us with bad contracts, blame those players for not living up to their contracts.....regardless of who people want to blame, it doesn't change the fact that we have to operate within the rules of the game that have been laid out for us.

The current rules? We have a 68M budget and double digits of wasted salary. Unfortunately, that means trading Karlsson is the best play right now if we want to be as successful as possible long term.
 

Zorf

Apparently I'm entitled?
Jan 4, 2008
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Like all players of his caliber he’s getting a Full NMC effective from the immediate signing date.

Trading after an extension would only be to a team of his approval

Except in EK's case, he'll still have a full year left on his current contract that comes with just a 10-team NTC. I don't think the NMC from the new contract could kick in until the new contract actually begins, which would be July 1, 2019.


**I may be wrong**
 

danielpalfredsson

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Aug 14, 2013
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How much Ballpark would EK want to stay and how much are the Sens prepared to pay him
IMO they have to have some idea now. no way of being sure.

Dorion has to know the ball park for Karlsson is in the 10.5-12.5 range. Doughty said he believes he and EK should earn more than PK Subban who makes 9.5M, and Karlsson essentially validated those claims and went on to talk about how this is a business, he won't take a discount, wants what he is worth, market value, etc, etc.

Even if they've never talked in vague terms with Karlsson or his agent, that alone, along with just looking at recent contracts for superstars (Price 8 years 10.5M most recently) is enough to pin point what a Karlsson extension should cost.

People have to keep in mind that Tavares could really screw us over. If Tavares signs somewhere for more than McDavid, the ceiling gets pushed up further.
 
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danielpalfredsson

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Aug 14, 2013
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Except in EK's case, he'll still have a full year left on his current contract that comes with just a 10-team NTC. I don't think the NMC from the new contract could kick in until the new contract actually begins, which would be July 1, 2019.


**I may be wrong**

Major players typically have their NMCs retroactively added into a previous contract after extending. We don't hear about this very often, because it is rarely relevant since a situation almost never arises where a player is on the block a few months after signing a major extension.

Recently, it happened with Carey Price. He signed his big extension, and his previous M-NTC was retroactively changed to a full NMC.

People are looking for ways to have their cake and eat it too, I can't see a situation where signing Karlsson and attempting to trade him later on makes sense.

Even waiting until after July 1st to trade him is a big risk, because he can alter his trade list. Karlsson and his agent likely know the teams Dorion has been talking to, what if they put as many of those teams as possible on his no trade list, and then state they'll only talk an extension with a specific team? Depending on Karlsson's intentions, the trade market could be completely altered after July 1st when Karlsson's current list expires.
 
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