Proposal: DEFENCE to Leafs

[BCNate]

I could see Luke Schenn being available at the deadline assuming the Canucks are outside of the playoff race. He has been playing excellent in his role in Vancouver, is RH, on a league min deal and has won the last 2 cups. Based on that, whoever gets him is likely to win the cup. He would provide solid depth and would not be a high cost to acquire.

 

[bernmeister]

None of NY's quality D corp is available, and a late 1st next coupla years does not cut it.

Given that, only thing appealing for NY to consider is

Strome [projects can be available/extended 4 yrs 5.25 per] retained to 2.25

Jones elc, lefty but can play right side -- only prospect available due to he is Fox lite [way lite comp to Fox, obv, but still an apt descrip]

Geo expiring retained to half is 1+

Hajek < 1 expiring

NYR 2022 2nd

for

Nylander
+
Holl
+
Leafs 2022 1st

something like that

and if Leaf base doesn't want to go there, fine
take yr chances w/a vet D rental w/mileage, a name one will still cost

 

[Leaf Fans]

None of NY's quality D corp is available, and a late 1st next coupla years does not cut it.

Given that, only thing appealing for NY to consider is

Strome [projects can be available/extended 4 yrs 5.25 per] retained to 2.25

Jones elc, lefty but can play right side -- only prospect available due to he is Fox lite [way lite comp to Fox, obv, but still an apt descrip]

Geo expiring retained to half is 1+

Hajek < 1 expiring

NYR 2022 2nd

for

Nylander
+
Holl
+
Leafs 2022 1st

something like that

and if Leaf base doesn't want to go there, fine
take yr chances w/a vet D rental w/mileage, a name one will still cost

I think it is more likely that the Leafs will take their chances on a better deal.

 

[bernmeister]

I think it is more likely that the Leafs will take their chances on a better deal.

fair enuf

 

[brokenwolf88]

Is Manson even that good?

 

[Dr Quincy]

None of NY's quality D corp is available, and a late 1st next coupla years does not cut it.

Given that, only thing appealing for NY to consider is

Strome [projects can be available/extended 4 yrs 5.25 per] retained to 2.25

Jones elc, lefty but can play right side -- only prospect available due to he is Fox lite [way lite comp to Fox, obv, but still an apt descrip]

Geo expiring retained to half is 1+

Hajek < 1 expiring

NYR 2022 2nd

for

Nylander
+
Holl
+
Leafs 2022 1st

something like that

and if Leaf base doesn't want to go there, fine
take yr chances w/a vet D rental w/mileage, a name one will still cost

OP asks for D help.

You offer a crap backup goalie, an offensive middle 6 C and prospects.

I won't even get into what you ask for back and why that's ridiculous... but just on the package going to TOR you've not even given a split second to how that fills any needs. It's just the same "I want to trade these guys from my team... now give me something good for them."

 

[bernmeister]

OP asks for D help.

You offer a crap backup goalie, an offensive middle 6 C and prospects.

I won't even get into what you ask for back and why that's ridiculous... but just on the package going to TOR you've not even given a split second to how that fills any needs. It's just the same "I want to trade these guys from my team... now give me something good for them."

Jones is a signif D prospect; you ignoring that fact does not change my accurate assertion.
It is a gamble, but he played well enuf in training camp to make the club.
Exceptionally poised, he should be able to contribute immediately.

As I explained, you have no other assets available of interest to NYR.
Either Strome + Jones + for Nylander + or forget it.

Also, we have now observed and proven by trial and error that Geo runs hot and cold, but is much better with sufficiently regular work. He is not premier top shelf but he is not crap

You need to revise your remarks to acknowledge the above.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Pick anyone out of Petry, Chiarot or Edmunson and send us a #1 pick our way (+ if it's Petry) and you're set

 

[Tarmore]

Ghostisbehere could be had for a prospect and pick most likely from the Leafs. It would however, probably cost you more than you're willing to pay and make a lot of Leafs fans irrationally angry.

No x2

No not worth a prospect and a pick to the Leafs as they need a Defensive defenseman, doesn't matter if it's a D prospect and a 7th

No (and this is the bigger one of the 2 listed) can't afford. See Salary Cap

 

[zodiacbiller]

Insane thread. Leafs have been an elite defensive team and have allowed 3+ goals in five straight games in part because they got banged up, in part because stuff happens, and in part because four of their games were against the Avalanche, Wild, Jets, and Lightning. Those are talented scoring teams. There's no urgent need, and the Leafs don't have the cap space to add early anyway. Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin, Sandin, Liljegren, Dermott, and Holl are a good defense group, and buying now rather than at the deadline doesn't do you any favors because the additional retention required will cost enough to make up for the deadline premium.

 

[zodiacbiller]

Pick anyone out of Petry, Chiarot or Edmunson and send us a #1 pick our way (+ if it's Petry) and you're set

Chiarot wouldn't be one of the Leafs' top seven defensemen, and Petry and Edmundson would require pretty significant retention given the Leafs' situation. Even if the Habs are rebuilding and willing to deal with the Leafs, it's just not a great fit. Petry or Edmundson might be good fits for the Red Wings if they're still in the race at the deadline.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Jones is a signif D prospect; you ignoring that fact does not change my accurate assertion.
It is a gamble, but he played well enuf in training camp to make the club.
Exceptionally poised, he should be able to contribute immediately.

As I explained, you have no other assets available of interest to NYR.
Either Strome + Jones + for Nylander + or forget it.

Also, we have now observed and proven by trial and error that Geo runs hot and cold, but is much better with sufficiently regular work. He is not premier top shelf but he is not crap

You need to revise your remarks to acknowledge the above.

I'm not ignoring facts. You are offering a prospect D and a C that TOR doesn't need.
None of that is what the Leafs need in a Cup run. I mean, you know that, you aren't that dumb, so offer a legit top 4 D or don't make a proposal when that is what is asked for.

I mean, do you even bother to think for 2 seconds about what the other team actually wants or is it just about "here's some stuff"?

As far as your proposal, i'd say your "forget it" is the best option.

 

[34]

Sandin is going to be a top pairing D man. I don’t see Dubas trading anymore 1sts or 2nds for older rentals. That has not fended well for him so far.

 

[bernmeister]

I'm not ignoring facts. You are offering a prospect D and a C that TOR doesn't need.
None of that is what the Leafs need in a Cup run. I mean, you know that, you aren't that dumb, so offer a legit top 4 D or don't make a proposal when that is what is asked for.

I mean, do you even bother to think for 2 seconds about what the other team actually wants or is it just about "here's some stuff"?

As far as your proposal, i'd say your "forget it" is the best option.

happy to move on,
but just to be clear
whole thing here rests of quality of Jones as a prospect
it is clear he is good long term investment
while I am not saying he is lights out first pair day one,
I do believe based on eye test seen in camp,
he can play for Leafs now.

If you have dif op on that fine
but it is an opinion, not a fact

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

None of NY's quality D corp is available, and a late 1st next coupla years does not cut it.

Given that, only thing appealing for NY to consider is

Strome [projects can be available/extended 4 yrs 5.25 per] retained to 2.25

Jones elc, lefty but can play right side -- only prospect available due to he is Fox lite [way lite comp to Fox, obv, but still an apt descrip]

Geo expiring retained to half is 1+

Hajek < 1 expiring

NYR 2022 2nd

for

Nylander
+
Holl
+
Leafs 2022 1st

something like that

and if Leaf base doesn't want to go there, fine
take yr chances w/a vet D rental w/mileage, a name one will still cost

None of what you proposed would get Nylander alone. Your idea of value to other teams is terrible.

 

[EquivalentStay]

None of NY's quality D corp is available, and a late 1st next coupla years does not cut it.

Given that, only thing appealing for NY to consider is

Strome [projects can be available/extended 4 yrs 5.25 per] retained to 2.25

Jones elc, lefty but can play right side -- only prospect available due to he is Fox lite [way lite comp to Fox, obv, but still an apt descrip]

Geo expiring retained to half is 1+

Hajek < 1 expiring

NYR 2022 2nd

for

Nylander
+
Holl
+
Leafs 2022 1st

something like that

and if Leaf base doesn't want to go there, fine
take yr chances w/a vet D rental w/mileage, a name one will still cost

And the LEAFS add a first? You're out of you dang mind, buddy. Worst proposal I've seen in a long time.

 

[Funk21]

Leafs fans crying about Justin Holl is so weird. He's a #4D making 2m. Stop trying to prove that you're cool and knowledgeable hockey fans by shitting on a perfectly good player. His contract is one of the best on the team for what he brings. Seriously, hockey fans have absolutely no idea what #4-6 defensemen actually look like. It's like y'all expect Chris Tanev as a bare minimum.

The issue is he is not a number 4. At best he is a 6/7 this year. I would trade him in a heartbeat if we could get a marginal upgrade with term and around the same AAV if it doesn’t cost us an arm and a leg. That is not using our first or second this year. A player like Mayfield from the NYI. I would be comfy packaging Dermott with him to get a physical bottom pairing RHD with term.

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Liljegren
Sandin ?????

 

[brokenwolf88]

Pick anyone out of Petry, Chiarot or Edmunson and send us a #1 pick our way (+ if it's Petry) and you're set

Chiarot and Edmunson are not worth a first. Not even close.

 

[Sniper99]

Brandon Tanev
Mark Giordano 50%
Jamie Oleksiak
11.5 M

for

Holl
Muzzin
Kerfoot
Robertson
1st
Engvall or Mikheyev
12.2 M

If it doesnt work on NHL 22 it wont work in here. Just stop.

 

[LeafGrief]

The issue is he is not a number 4. At best he is a 6/7 this year. I would trade him in a heartbeat if we could get a marginal upgrade with term and around the same AAV if it doesn’t cost us an arm and a leg. That is not using our first or second this year. A player like Mayfield from the NYI. I would be comfy packaging Dermott with him to get a physical bottom pairing RHD with term.

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Liljegren
Sandin ?????

Yeah he was only a #4 for two years. Fans who are willing to toss a guy who was a #4 for two years in the trash after 30 bad games are laughable. How many solid #4D cost 2m and can be had for less than an arm and a leg? RHD are one of the most coveted positions in the league, we heard for 3 straight years that the only way to get one was to trade Nylander. Holl has 30 bad games and you're pencilling a kid with 30 total NHL games under his belt into the spot.

The Leafs should upgrade at every position whenever and wherever possible. If Dubas trades to upgrade on Holl, I'll live. But fans are always restless and look to trade instead of giving players an inch of rope to sort themselves out. You trade Holl and he bounces back on his new team, great the Leafs now look like huge idiots for trading a 2m #4D which is literally exactly the player that we need. We have the guy with the right history and the right contract, just have some patience with the guy for f***'s sakes.

 

[Holy Slapshot]

Well I've seen last game and Holl was looking like he really need to bounce back on his current team, because that was sad.

 

[Funk21]

Yeah he was only a #4 for two years. Fans who are willing to toss a guy who was a #4 for two years in the trash after 30 bad games are laughable. How many solid #4D cost 2m and can be had for less than an arm and a leg? RHD are one of the most coveted positions in the league, we heard for 3 straight years that the only way to get one was to trade Nylander. Holl has 30 bad games and you're pencilling a kid with 30 total NHL games under his belt into the spot.

The Leafs should upgrade at every position whenever and wherever possible. If Dubas trades to upgrade on Holl, I'll live. But fans are always restless and look to trade instead of giving players an inch of rope to sort themselves out. You trade Holl and he bounces back on his new team, great the Leafs now look like huge idiots for trading a 2m #4D which is literally exactly the player that we need. We have the guy with the right history and the right contract, just have some patience with the guy for f***'s sakes.

Again throwing somebody on the second pairing and saying he is a number 4 is different than being a second pairing guy. The underlying analytics have said that for years and Muzzin basically has saved his bacon. He never should have been protected, yes RHD are valuable and at 2 million it’s not a terrible AAV but anything more than a bottom pairing is above his talent. Liljegren has surpassed him in his very limited play. He reads the play and has better position. Also skates ten times better. When his confidence is there we are going to a true top 4, maybe even a number 2/3. Baby steps.

As for replacing him I think there are few options but Mayfield fits the bill. Big, Physical and isn't a black hole offensively. What would it take? Good question but neither of our 2022 top picks should be involved.

 

[NYR425]

How about Rangers trade (D) Patrik Nemeth, (D) Zach Jones and (F) Vitaly Kravtsov to Maple Leafs for (F) Matthew Knies. Both Nemeth and Jones could step in this season and you get the wild card in Kravtsov. Think the Rangers are giving up a lot but you have to give to get and I like Knies as a prospect. Would this work?

 

[LeafGrief]

Again throwing somebody on the second pairing and saying he is a number 4 is different than being a second pairing guy. The underlying analytics have said that for years and Muzzin basically has saved his bacon. He never should have been protected, yes RHD are valuable and at 2 million it’s not a terrible AAV but anything more than a bottom pairing is above his talent. Liljegren has surpassed him in his very limited play. He reads the play and has better position. Also skates ten times better. When his confidence is there we are going to a true top 4, maybe even a number 2/3. Baby steps.

As for replacing him I think there are few options but Mayfield fits the bill. Big, Physical and isn't a black hole offensively. What would it take? Good question but neither of our 2022 top picks should be involved.

If Muzzin is saving Holl's bacon and Holl is making 2m, that is called chemistry and should be valued. JT made a career of making average wingers look great, if Jake Muzzin is dragging Holl to top4 results and we can get away with a 2m player in that spot then you should be building a statue for Muzzin and using the cap savings elsewhere. It's the #4 defenseman spot, you don't need a guy who can carry a pairing to play there.

I've laid out my position. This is all make believe any ways, so carry on.

 

[bernmeister]

How about Rangers trade (D) Patrik Nemeth, (D) Zach Jones and (F) Vitaly Kravtsov to Maple Leafs for (F) Matthew Knies. Both Nemeth and Jones could step in this season and you get the wild card in Kravtsov. Think the Rangers are giving up a lot but you have to give to get and I like Knies as a prospect. Would this work?

no from NY, too much
the guy is a worthwhile target, kudos to you there

but adding Krav is way too much = giving him away
elite prospects has Knies pre draft rankings no better than like 37th, most considerably higher (ie worse)

We can do
Jones + Reunanen
for
Knies +

keep Nemeth another half yr to finish getting Nils L acclimated

Jones has Fox lite potential.
Is surplus and has to go but want best return there

Knies + a good +