Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[JoelWarlord]

Alzner, Murray, Reinhart, Ellerby, Larsson, Bogosian, Gudbransson, Fleury were also high floor low ceiling highly ranked type of defenseman that were meant to become safe reliable top 4 defenseman for a very long time. They all became average to bad defenseman. Offensive upside and room to grow is very important for defenseman. To me Reinbacher lack dynamism, vision, shot and hands to become a franchise defenseman.

My opinion you do not draft a defenseman top 5 UNLESS he has game breaking abilities and franchise defenseman upside. I just do not see it with Reinbacher.

This is a weird list. Murray was a solid #2 before the injuries and hung around as a 3-4 for a while. Larsson peaked as a solid #2 and is still a really quality piece at 33. Other than maybe Bogosian the rest of the guys don't really make much sense as comparables when comparing their draft year. Reinhart was pretty much just a team seeing a guy that looked vaguely like Weber in junior and pretending that would translate. Reinbacher had 22 points in 46 games in a good pro league last year. He's not some plug that has no offensive skill, and he's a substantially better skater than any of the guys listed and is a completely distinct player. There are a ton of different ways for a defenceman to make it in the NHL that aren't John Carlson/Roman Josi or Karl Alzner/Erik Gudbranson.

Players are individuals, not archetypes. This is like if I listed Drouin, Niederreiter, Dal Colle, Filatov, Daigle, Strome, and Puljujarvi as a reason not to draft skilled wingers in the top 10 when they have little to nothing in common with one another and even less in common with eg. Michkov.

 

[Jaynki]

1. There is no rule that a defender has to go in the top-5 if there are 10 good forwards available. And there is no guarantee that it is the right choice either.

2. Hughes went for safety seeing as he was too scared to try and guess which small forward would become a star.

3. Any of the forwards available at 5 were high risk, higher risk than Reinbacher I would add. Safe pick.

4. At the same time, Reinbacher was NEVER seen as having talent or upside comparable to some of the smaller fowards. There were players on the board with more discernible talent and upside to him, but we went with Reinbacher over them to fill a need. Reach pick.

1. Of course. But usually top pair RD(or LD) are the most coveted assets after the 1C whethey they run a PP or not. Which explain why in more than 95% of the draft, dman get picked at least top 5.

I bet Toronto would trade Marner for Pietrangelo twice on Monday even if Rielly would keep running the PP.

Reinbacher projects as a top pair RD who will play against opposing teams top lines night in night out. Him being a 2D is nothing more than semantic.

There is indeed no guarantee he is the right choice but that applies to every single selection.

2. Disagree. I think he went for upside. Unless you limit upside to flashy offensive skills.

The 2023 draft had a unicorn talent(Bedard), two potential 1Cs(Fantilli, Carlsson), two potential top pair Ds(Reinbacher, Simashev), and a plethora of potential top 6 forward with dynamic skill set. (I disregard Michkov for obvious reason.)

So to me, its perfectly normal to go with potential top pair D when the 1C arent there anymore. Dont think any of Leonard, Danielson or Dvorsky has big PPG star upside. The big miss is Benson so far.

Go look at past trade and contract and tell me the prices of top pair D both in terms of contract and assets to acquire versus the price of top 6 forward.

Hall vs Larsson is an example of the very high demand for quality D, even if they are not PP QB.

3 and 4 can also be answered with point 2.

 

[DAChampion]

Yes you can.

There is no rule that a defender has to go in the top-5 if there are 10 good forwards available. And there is no guarantee that it is the right choice either.

It's a statistical rule. One third of hockey skaters are dmen, and probably a higher fraction of skilled skaters. So you expect one or two in the top five.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Alzner, Murray, Reinhart, Ellerby, Larsson, Bogosian, Gudbransson, Fleury were also high floor low ceiling highly ranked type of defenseman that were meant to become safe reliable top 4 defenseman for a very long time. They all became average to bad defenseman. Offensive upside and room to grow is very important for defenseman. To me Reinbacher lack dynamism, vision, shot and hands to become a franchise defenseman.

My opinion you do not draft a defenseman top 5 UNLESS he has game breaking abilities and franchise defenseman upside. I just do not see it with Reinbacher.

I actually think this isn’t a bad criticism and I’m a Reinbacher fan.

He’s not super dynamic with the puck on his stick or really smooth skating, etc.

He is often in a hurry to get the puck off his stick. The context is just how bad Kloten is. As well as you’d be hard pressed to see a junior eligible D man who can eat minutes like he does in a men’s league. I’m genuinely asking. Seider? Dahlin? Any others? That’s as elite as company as you can get. It just can’t be overstated.

He’s suffering the same fate as Slaf in terms of fan evaluation. Playing in a men’s league as a junior skews our perceptions really hard.

He’s got his warts and I think you’re outlining a realistic but cellar dwelling worst case scenario. When he comes over to NA he could look like a completely different player and it’s not like we’re seeing a bad D man by any means. He just looks relatively workman like for such a high pick. But workman who is playing top pairing minutes in a pro league on a garbage team that’s as disorganized as hell and has gone through several coaching changes in half a season. You couldn’t put him in a rougher situation to look top 5 pick worthy. He’d probably look better on the Habs playing 12 mins a game

 

[Hinterland]

I actually think this isn’t a bad criticism and I’m a Reinbacher fan.

He’s not super dynamic with the puck on his stick or really smooth skating, etc.

He is often in a hurry to get the puck off his stick. The context is just how bad Kloten is. As well as you’d be hard pressed to see a junior eligible D man who can eat minutes like he does in a men’s league. I’m genuinely asking. Seider? Dahlin? Any others? That’s as elite as company as you can get. It just can’t be overstated.

He’s suffering the same fate as Slaf in terms of fan evaluation. Playing in a men’s league as a junior skews our perceptions really hard.

He’s got his warts and I think you’re outlining a realistic but cellar dwelling worst case scenario. When he comes over to NA he could look like a completely different player and it’s not like we’re seeing a bad D man by any means. He just looks relatively workman like for such a high pick. But workman who is playing top pairing minutes in a pro league on a garbage team that’s as disorganized as hell and has gone through several coaching changes in half a season. You couldn’t put him in a rougher situation to look top 5 pick worthy. He’d probably look better on the Habs playing 12 mins a game

I think it's playing style more so than the team he's playing for. Why keep the puck on your stick if you have the ability to make a quick play? Reinbacher loves fast paced hockey. He's got the elite hands and vision to quickly turn defense into offense. He also loves to join the attack with his team in possession. I'm sure he could adjust to heavy possession hockey as well but I'm not sure it would necessarily suit him all that much.

Regarding his draft season, as stated many times, the only comparable among active NHLers is Rasmus Dahlin. So to even question Reinbacher's upside is dumb. You don't dominate at the highest level in Europe if you don't have massive upside. Not in the first year of draft eligibility and as a defenseman.

 

[habsterr]

What is the consensus on the guy this season? Where would he project to rank in 3 years in our line-up? Better than Ghule, Mailloux, Barron and Hutson?

Just a terrible guess on importance for the Habs D squad in 3 years.

Reinbacher
Guhle
Hutson
Struble
Mailloux
Xhekaj
Barron
Harris

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Ryan Murray is such a weird add. Injuries can derail the career of any player. Ryan Murray was GOATED.

The fact that Ryan Murray is still in the NHL, after all his injury problems, shows you just how good he would have been.

Karl Alzner played almost 700 career games... he would have been fine if the game didn't change so much. He got drafted in that transition period where the NHL was transitioning but no one knew if it would stick. His skating was always the problem and once the NHL became a speed skating world, players like him obviously wouldn't succeed.

Bogosian has played over 800 career games.

Adam Larsson is such a weird add. He's played over 800 career games and is still a very solid player.

My question to you, would you be satisfied if Reinbacher has similar career to the players I listed. Keep in mind, most of them became journeyman defenders with many teams and never became core players of the team that drafted them.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

This is a weird list. Murray was a solid #2 before the injuries and hung around as a 3-4 for a while. Larsson peaked as a solid #2 and is still a really quality piece at 33. Other than maybe Bogosian the rest of the guys don't really make much sense as comparables when comparing their draft year. Reinhart was pretty much just a team seeing a guy that looked vaguely like Weber in junior and pretending that would translate. Reinbacher had 22 points in 46 games in a good pro league last year. He's not some plug that has no offensive skill, and he's a substantially better skater than any of the guys listed and is a completely distinct player. There are a ton of different ways for a defenceman to make it in the NHL that aren't John Carlson/Roman Josi or Karl Alzner/Erik Gudbranson.

Players are individuals, not archetypes. This is like if I listed Drouin, Niederreiter, Dal Colle, Filatov, Daigle, Strome, and Puljujarvi as a reason not to draft skilled wingers in the top 10 when they have little to nothing in common with one another and even less in common with eg. Michkov.

We can talk about not selecting specific type of winger in the top 5 and the players you listed were drafted high also for specific reasons and the same reason they never achieved their potential. Although I consider Daigle a completely different situation than the other players.

The players I listed had two tags associated with them like it or not. Safe, reliable but also limited upside offensively.

Seider and Dobson are the exception on the oppostite spectrum than we can say developed into the role they were projected to become. Although I do consider Dobson to have been severely overlooked because he played in the Q. I have no doubt that if he played in the OHL or WHL he would have been top 5.

Another name that was considered safe top pair defenseman was Edvinsson. He might also become a top pair defenseman but it is still not clear.

Seider is the best case scenario all things considered for Reinbacher but again I still believe Seider had more untapped offensive talent and he had a better D+1 draft year.

I am not hating on Reinbacher but I just personally do not like selecting that type of defender in the top 5. I am more than fine with picks around 12-20.

I was and I am still a believer that Ryan Leonard or Zach Benson should have been the guy if not for Michkov (for obvious reasons).

 

[1909]

Funny to re-read the first few pages of this thread.

 

[Addik04]

Assist - 1:21
Penalty - 8:59

another solid game from him, 1A, 4 shots, he's now had 12 shots over the last 3 games, that would be like a month's worth of shots from him so good to see. Not seeing any more of those what I would call just ugly turnovers so he's clearly playing much better but still has a ways to go.

The interview from Hughes on l'Antichambre puts his soso start into perspective. He wanted to be someone who was not and put a lot of pressure on himself as he was a 5th overall.

Happy for him. Really looking forward to seeing him by the end of the year in Laval.

 

[KevSkillz4]

The interview from Hughes on l'Antichambre puts his soso start into perspective. He wanted to be someone who was not and put a lot of pressure on himself as he was a 5th overall.

Happy for him. Really looking forward to seeing him by the end of the year in Laval.

That's a lot of pressure to be a high pick in Montreal. The fact that Reinbacher play in a very good league, that's great to see his good plays. Mistakes is normal for a young D, but Reinbacher show high defensive IQ against mens. That's why MTL view him like NYI view Dobson, high defensive IQ with great offensive ability.

People need to be hype with that type of D.

I'm not hype about him before the draft, but after seeing the future roster of Habs, having that type of D will make this team much better in playoffs run.

I like defense players and they are very very important. Having D's with great mobility, great first pass, great two-way game, will help the forwards.

 

[HomaridII]

Really long and REALLY good article by Arpon Basu on The Athletic about David Reinbacher. It is worth paying just to read that

I will just highlight two things:

1) Reinbacher always wanted to go back one more year and complete his education, UNTIL he played one pre season game at the Bell Center. After that his mind was he wanted to stay. He was down and very disappointed to go back to the National League and struggle at first with that.

2) He received a visit after the first couple months from Ramage. He was told he would sit and watch video. It wasn't a video of Reinbacher they showed him, it was a video of Shea Webber. They wanted to highlight to him that being David Reinbacher was good enough, they drafted him to be David Reinbacher. Keep it simple. Since then he has adjusted his game.

3) His mind is on one thing. Playing in the Bell Center. He walks around in Habs merchandise even inside his house to never forget that one pre-season game.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

If Reinbacher was in the Q or OHL he would be dominating. Its very difficult for a 18 years old to play pro hockey as a dman. He will take at least 1 more yearbefore earning a spot on the Habs. This isn't abnormal. He needs a full year in Laval.

 

[Hinterland]

Really long and REALLY good article by Arpon Basu on The Athletic about David Reinbacher. It is worth paying just to read that

I will just highlight two things:

1) Reinbacher always wanted to go back one more year and complete his education, UNTIL he played one pre season game at the Bell Center. After that his mind was he wanted to stay. He was down and very disappointed to go back to the National League and struggle at first with that.

Was this an actual Reinbacher quote or did the athletic fool add this to create a nice story?

I'm asking because when he returned from Montreal, Reinbacher said he's happy to be back in his comfort zone and looking forward to playing for Kloten again.

Now, I totally believe that Reinbacher's view might have changed due to how bad Kloten is this season...however, him not wanting to complete his education and being disappointed to play for Kloten initially after returning to Switzerland smells like classic made up athletic bs.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Was this an actual Reinbacher quote or did the athletic fool add this to create a nice story?

I'm asking because when he returned from Montreal, Reinbacher said he's happy to be back in his comfort zone and looking forward to playing for Kloten again.

Now, I totally believe that Reinbacher's view might have changed due to how bad Kloten is this season...however, him not wanting to complete his education and being disappointed to play for Kloten initially after returning to Switzerland smells like classic made up athletic bs.

“I had a lot of fun, being with all the guys and playing with at least some NHL players,” he said.

“It’s been a bit of a roller coaster for him,” said Kloten coach and general manager Larry Mitchell, who fired his original coach about six weeks into Reinbacher’s return after the team won only seven of its first 23 games. “He came back and it was tough, as it’s tough for anybody that gets sent from an NHL team to wherever. …

“It wasn’t sulking or pouting, but we noticed some disappointment in that he wanted to play for the Montreal Canadiens, and we understand that.”

 

[Redux91]

Really long and REALLY good article by Arpon Basu on The Athletic about David Reinbacher. It is worth paying just to read that

I will just highlight two things:

1) Reinbacher always wanted to go back one more year and complete his education, UNTIL he played one pre season game at the Bell Center. After that his mind was he wanted to stay. He was down and very disappointed to go back to the National League and struggle at first with that.

2) He received a visit after the first couple months from Ramage. He was told he would sit and watch video. It wasn't a video of Reinbacher they showed him, it was a video of Shea Webber. They wanted to highlight to him that being David Reinbacher was good enough, they drafted him to be David Reinbacher. Keep it simple. Since then he has adjusted his game.

3) His mind is on one thing. Playing in the Bell Center. He walks around in Habs merchandise even inside his house to never forget that one pre-season game.

Bring.him.HOME baby

I love that he is insightful enough to admit he was of a certain mindset about how to carry on his development and then
... oh my god I love playing here I don't wanna go!!

Stay patient kiddo it's comin!

 

[Goldthorpe]

Basu describes David as the anti-Slaf, in the sense that Slaf was already a big deal in Slovakia and very popular for many years, while Reinbacher went from a basically unknown outside of scouting circles to the top draft pick of a storied franchise.

At the beginning of the season, he was trying to do so much to prove he was worthy of the selection (I'm paraphrasing) until his coaches and Ramage spoke to him.

You know, players get their motivations from all kinds of places, but reading between the lines, I get that David takes his from having a chip on his shoulder, or feeling the underdog. I'm a bit like that so I feel I can relate.

 

[HomaridII]

Basu describes David as the anti-Slaf, in the sense that Slaf was already a big deal in Slovakia and very popular for many years, while Reinbacher went from a basically unknown outside of scouting circles to the top draft pick of a storied franchise.

At the beginning of the season, he was trying to do so much to prove he was worthy of the selection (I'm paraphrasing) until his coaches and Ramage spoke to him.

You know, players get their motivations from all kinds of places, but reading between the lines, I get that David takes his from having a chip on his shoulder, or feeling the underdog. I'm a bit like that so I feel I can relate.

You did a great job of summarizing the difference between Slaf and David. He literally went from nobody at the beginning of the year to a top 5 pick of the biggest franchise in hockey (sorry Toronto).

 

[Deebs]

Bring.him.HOME baby

I love that he is insightful enough to admit he was of a certain mindset about how to carry on his development and then
... oh my god I love playing here I don't wanna go!!

Stay patient kiddo it's comin!

They should get him in Laval asap

 

[Hinterland]

“I had a lot of fun, being with all the guys and playing with at least some NHL players,” he said.

“It’s been a bit of a roller coaster for him,” said Kloten coach and general manager Larry Mitchell, who fired his original coach about six weeks into Reinbacher’s return after the team won only seven of its first 23 games. “He came back and it was tough, as it’s tough for anybody that gets sent from an NHL team to wherever. …

“It wasn’t sulking or pouting, but we noticed some disappointment in that he wanted to play for the Montreal Canadiens, and we understand that.”

Firstly, these quotes aren't from Reinbacher, just interpretations from Mitchell who wasn't even coaching when Reinbacher returned. Secondly, it's not exactly the same as the post I quoted.

 

[LesCanadiens]

If Reinbacher was in the Q or OHL he would be dominating. Its very difficult for a 18 years old to play pro hockey as a dman. He will take at least 1 more yearbefore earning a spot on the Habs. This isn't abnormal. He needs a full year in Laval.

He looked pretty darn ready to me in preseason. If he looks as good or better in next years camp/preseason, I bet he gets his 9 games next year and never goes back. I think he is built for N/A rinks.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Firstly, these quotes aren't from Reinbacher, just interpretations from Mitchell who wasn't even coaching when Reinbacher returned. Secondly, it's not exactly the same as the post I quoted.

I totally agree with you , that part of the article is a complete fluff piece to get habs fans clicks

 

[Hinterland]

I totally agree with you , that part of the article is a complete fluff piece to get habs fans clicks

That's how those so called "journalists" operate. The athletic is a joke. Remember that ahead of the draft they released an article claiming that Reinbacher wouldn't be any good because of him mostly collecting secondary assists. Of course the exact opposite was the case. Reinbacher had a rather unique assist split the other way, something even somebody with zero qualifications could have found out with a one minute google search. What these guys do has nothing to do with journalism. It's a scam. And we haven't even talked about their "business model" or them illegally buying data to acquire new customers.

 

[salbutera]

They should get him in Laval asap

Article states he’s likely headed to Laval once season ends in March

 

[WeThreeKings]

I totally agree with you , that part of the article is a complete fluff piece to get habs fans clicks

It's a paid site..