Player Discussion David Quinn

[offdacrossbar]

unless and until quinn stops over playing his hand with these line combos, he will never let these guys develop any feel for each other. this constant switching is counter productive especially to the young guys who already fragile psyche is being further weakened.

SIMPLE PLAN

form 3 lines (with your best players) that make sense and STICK WITH IT FOR 5 GAMES MIN.

roll 3 lines and add the 4th in situationally.

line 1. 20/93/24

line 2 10/72/89

line 3 48/16/50 or 17

 

[will1066]

unless and until quinn stops over playing his hand with these line combos, he will never let these guys develop any feel for each other. this constant switching is counter productive especially to the young guys who already fragile psyche is being further weakened.

SIMPLE PLAN

form 3 lines (with your best players) that make sense and STICK WITH IT FOR 5 GAMES MIN.

roll 3 lines and add the 4th in situationally.

line 1. 20/93/24

line 2 10/72/89

line 3 48/16/50 or 17

But HFNYR can't stick with it either. And HFNYR likes to especially give certain individuals shorter leashes or completely zero leashes (i.e., Ryan Strome).

Strome is getting on the scoreboard and still gets grief. Imagine if he didn't.

 

[offdacrossbar]

But HFNYR can't stick with it either. And HFNYR likes to especially give certain individuals shorter leashes or completely zero leashes (i.e., Ryan Strome).

Strome is getting on the scoreboard and still gets grief. Imagine if he didn't.

strome is fine. in his role, hes actually been pretty good. same with smith. within their roles, they are fine. when that role is expanded- like fast, thats setting them up to fail.

ryan strome made a terrific pass to ADA on that PP tap in. he made a great pass on the tape. hes been solid and ive defended him here alot. hes not the problem unless hes put in a spot where he cant succeed.

and speaking of that, Quinn piling on lemme yesterday is dumb and again showing quinns lack of understanding. 48 is spark plug. kid can skate and he can mix it up. hes exactly the kind of young player we need playing top 9 mins. instead, hes benched for one mistake.

lemme was on for both of tonys goals yesterday. BOTH. the PP goal and the 5v5 goal he was part of both. that line of lemme strome and buch had a nice goal.

so strome and lemme both on for both goals. and quinn cuts lemme off at the knees and benches him for a "tough game". what message does that send ?

idiot.

 

[True Blue]

Howden and Staal have been gifted minutes since last season - that's not debatable. It works the other way too. He's got his guys who play the "right way" and it's lead us to a 2-5 October so far, our young players staling in development, and the whole team lagging.

That is not gifting minutes. That is giving players that play the way that he demands ice time. There is a difference.

Under 10 games in and all of our young players are stalling in development? Well that was fast.

It's not a cop out at all. Is anything I say here going to affect what happens? Quinn ain't reading this board for ideas. But it's very clear to see that when you do something for 5 games in a row and you go 0-5, it's time for a different approach, which probably concerns giving some other players a little more leeway and room to play instead of pressing vets in order to win meaningless games in October.

It is exactly a cop out. There may well be no solutions with this roster until the younger players show something and some of the vets stop being passengers and start being drivers. There may be no solution until Gorton and JD think that Chytil and Lindgren have marinated enough in the AHL. What ideas are you saying he is not ready for? Do you really think that it is his will alone that has Chytil and Lindren in the AHL? Yes, the Andersson thing is puzzling, but short of that, what else is there?

Non-negotiables are exactly that. When you start to negotiate those, you compromise the room.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

That is not gifting minutes. That is giving players that play the way that he demands ice time. There is a difference.

Under 10 games in and all of our young players are stalling in development? Well that was fast.

It is exactly a cop out. There may well be no solutions with this roster until the younger players show something and some of the vets stop being passengers and start being drivers. There may be no solution until Gorton and JD think that Chytil and Lindgren have marinated enough in the AHL. What ideas are you saying he is not ready for? Do you really think that it is his will alone that has Chytil and Lindren in the AHL? Yes, the Andersson thing is puzzling, but short of that, what else is there?

Non-negotiables are exactly that. When you start to negotiate those, you compromise the room.

So if you give him what he demands but that produces no positive results for the team's success, how is that a viable plan?

Until what Quinn is doing starts producing wins, what he's doing isn't working. 0-5.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

So if you give him what he demands but that produces no positive results for the team's success, how is that a viable plan?

Until what Quinn is doing starts producing wins, what he's doing isn't working. 0-5.

2-4-1*

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

I expected us to suck. But I also expect us to develop, and I'm starting to question Quinn's ability there.

 

[aufheben]

“Lias is playing well”

“Quinn is ruining his development”

Pick one.

 

[IDvsEGO]

“Lias is playing well”

“Quinn is ruining his development”

Pick one.

Those aren't contrary concepts.

Lias is playing well because its apparent that this off-season he worked on his skating and seems far more comfortable in the nhl with the speed necessary for this game.
We're saying Quinn is ruining his development because he's shown that he can go beyond what he's doing now but quinn is stalling his development by playing him in a role that doesn't challenge him to grow.
The point of having a young roster is that there will be ups and downs but that those downs are to let kids grow.
Right now the only one being challenged to grow is kakko in the NHL. Don't get me wrong, he needs to grow and learn to excel in the NHL but he's not the only kid we have.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

“Lias is playing well”

“Quinn is ruining his development”

Pick one.

I can do this

"Miller, Kreider, Zuccarello, Fast, Skjei developed despite AV being the coach"

"Buchnevich, DeAngelo, Howden developed thanks to Quinn"

Pick one. Either every head coach coach is (partly) responsible for a player's development while playing under him or not at all.



PS: This isn't directed at you by the way

 

[aufheben]

Lias has absolutely not shown he is anything more than a 4C yet. He’ll get his chance to do so. Call me in January if Lias still hasn’t played in the top-9 by then.

Case in point:


Zero patience.

Semi-related: sooner or later we’re going to have to accept the fact that a) not all the prospects are going to pan out, and b) not all the prospects are as good as we think.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

JD hired Knoblouch for Hartford. I think that’s the reason Chytil and Kravtsov are in Hartford.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Semi-related: sooner or later we’re going to have to accept the fact that a) not all the prospects are going to pan out, and b) not all the prospects are as good as we think.

Haha i think we are all very used to our prospects not panning out how we thought around here

 

[Edge]

I can do this

"Miller, Kreider, Zuccarello, Fast, Skjei developed despite AV being the coach"

"Buchnevich, DeAngelo, Howden developed thanks to Quinn"

Pick one. Either every head coach coach is (partly) responsible for a player's development while playing under him or not at all.



PS: This isn't directed at you by the way

Put me in the “every coach (with rare exception) is at least partly responsible for the development of their players” category.

Obviously each coach resonates with different players better, but I’ve never been a fan of dismissing all their accomplishments while keenly focusing on all their failures.

Having said that, we formulate so many dogmatic principles around here when it comes to players, coaches and management that we could build a damn religion around it and apply for tax exempt status.

 

[Larrybiv]

I expected us to suck. But I also expect us to develop, and I'm starting to question Quinn's ability there.

I will quote you, because now.....I am starting to get VERY concerned. 9kay, I havent been the BEST supporter of Lias, but I certainly am NOT rooting against him. It would go against everything I believe in and root FOR. With that said......there is NO justifiable reasoning as to why Lias is on the 4th line playing sub 8 minutes a a game. Quinn is "well on his way" to ruining this kid. Quinn is pigeonholing him into this non talented "only can be a checker and PK specialist" type player.
That is ridiculous.
We didnt pick this kid 7th to be on the 4th line. Period. Now its true that he has never even come close to producing, nor even being anything resembling a playmaker.......but honestly, I dont even see that he has had that opportunity.

Excuse me, I am sorry as I know this has been said here many times. But......something needs to be done about this. At least give the kid 10 games on 2nd or worst case 3rd line and see what arises. I am now officially ROOTING REALLY HARD for this Quinn underdog.

 

[Larrybiv]

JD hired Knoblouch for Hartford. I think that’s the reason Chytil and Kravtsov are in Hartford.

Then......decide which is better for the kids.
Send Lias, Kakko, Howden, Hayek down to further their development with Knoblach.
Or.......bring them all up to further their development under Quinn. I mean, isnt that what Quinn was hired for?
Have we changed the gameplan on the fly, because of Panari and Trouba?

Subject yourself to one thinking or the other.
IMO, the only one that really deserves to be on this team is Lias. Hayek, I suppose as he has played well enough and seems to be growing. Fox seems to be a different story altogether.
And its OBVIOUS why Kakko is here. Fans would be up in arms if not.

Eventually, they all will be here come a few more months.
Haley, McKegg and Kreids and Jesper.....probably goners one way or the other.

 

[True Blue]

So if you give him what he demands but that produces no positive results for the team's success, how is that a viable plan?

Until what Quinn is doing starts producing wins, what he's doing isn't working. 0-5.

Again aside from the Andersson thing, what clearly obvious alternatives is Quinn ignoring?

 

[Irishguy42]

Again aside from the Andersson thing, what clearly obvious alternatives is Quinn ignoring?

Staal not playing, but that seems to be an organizational blindness and not specifically a Quinn thing.

 

[True Blue]

Staal not playing, but that seems to be an organizational blindness and not specifically a Quinn thing.

It is an organizational decision of which Quinn is a part of. Stating that it is blindness is a fallacy. Do you really think that Quinn, Gorton & JD are incapable of seeing what is going on during games on the ice? Of course they can. But the fact is that for right now, they have deemed it the best course of action to keep him? Why? Because more than likely they do not believe that someone like Lindgren is either ready to take on major NHL minutes or that they want someone like him to develop his game and get more confidence before they being him up.

So as of now, Stall may be the only option as moving Smith back to being a full time defenseman is not. And they are not interest in signing some fringe level player that is currently not on any team.

 

[Edge]

Staal not playing, but that seems to be an organizational blindness and not specifically a Quinn thing.

I'm in the weird zone where I don't think Staal should be playing, but I'm not sure I see a clear alternative I am comfortable with here in October.

We've been there and back again with Smith and I'd prefer to just leave him in the role he's at right now.

I'm not really sure recalling Lindgren at this point in time is the right move.

I'm open to giving Hajek more time, but that's only going to do so much. And I'm also more interested in getting him into a groove before I start cranking up the dial.

I'm not particularly crazy about the idea of going out and signing someone, because I don't want even more luggage hanging around as we promote someone like Lindgren, or work to ease Hajek into more time.

So that leaves me with Staal right now. Not because he should be out there, but because I don't quite think his true potential replacement is here yet.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I'm in the weird zone where I don't think Staal should be playing, but I'm not sure I see a clear alternative I am comfortable with here in October.

We've been there and back again with Smith and I'd prefer to just leave him in the role he's at right now.

I'm not really sure recalling Lindgren at this point in time is the right move.

I'm open to giving Hajek more time, but that's only going to do so much. And I'm also more interested in getting him into a groove before I start cranking up the dial.

I'm not particularly crazy about the idea of going out and signing someone, because I don't want even more luggage hanging around as we promote someone like Lindgren, or work to ease Hajek into more time.

So that leaves me with Staal right now. Not because he should be out there, but because I don't quite think his true potential replacement is here yet.

Feels like the bolded is how the team is approaching the deployment/role of a lot of the kids

 

[lemonybergamot]

What irks me is that the Rangers could have tried these line combos during preseason. Instead we had 100 players "competing" for a spot down to the final game. I don't see players like Nieves, Lettieri, DiG, Newell, etc. becoming full time Nhl'ers except on the 4th line and maybe 3rd once in a while. They're just fillers. There's no need to play them for that many games, we already know what most of them can do. Our young players like Chytil, Kakko, Andersson, etc. should've been playing like every game on all the top lines. If Kakko didn't make the team that would've been disappointing, but ok in development because he would start in Hartford and get confidence. Granted it's still early in the season, but now we're watching him flounder around the ice with the rest of the team and have to "fight through it". Otoh, Andersson earned his spot, but I wouldn't mind if him & Howden were sent down. Andersson for the minutes, Howden because he's been bad for half a season and still gets coddled by Quinn. Call up Nieves & Lettieri and just let our team stink longer.

 

[True Blue]

Feels like the bolded is how the team is approaching the deployment/role of a lot of the kids

Which is not at all different than what JD did back in St. Louis or Columbus. Or frankly, what has looked like under Gorton's tenure. Which is why he hired a coach like Quinn. As was stated by I believe Edge, if you are not on board with the way Quinn is by and large approaching the kids, then one is not on board with Gorton & JD's plan.

 

[True Blue]

Our young players like Chytil, Kakko, Andersson, etc. should've been playing like every game on all the top lines.

So just hand them spots whether or not they earn it?

If Kakko didn't make the team that would've been disappointing, but ok in development because he would start in Hartford and get confidence.

Clearly the coaching staff and management all felt that in this case, his developing would be at the NHL level. Whatever his performance is.

Granted it's still early in the season, but now we're watching him flounder around the ice with the rest of the team and have to "fight through it". Otoh, Andersson earned his spot, but I wouldn't mind if him & Howden were sent down. Andersson for the minutes, Howden because he's been bad for half a season and still gets coddled by Quinn. Call up Nieves & Lettieri and just let our team stink longer.

There is a difference between going for a tank and playing and developing at the same time. This franchise has not shown me anything other than they are playing the long game and nothing is done for instant gratification. There is a plan for the franchise, there is a plan for each prospect. There is nothing being done to show me that they are simply lost and floundering. The coaching staff and management are following through with their plans. Whatever the fans rant and rave about.

 

[lemonybergamot]

So just hand them spots whether or not they earn it?

In the preseason? Yes
Clearly the coaching staff and management all felt that in this case, his developing would be at the NHL level. Whatever his performance is.

Sure, but it sucks to watch this tirefire and Kakko part of it. Maybe he can emerge from it as one of the leaders like he wants to be, but I'm just uneasy about the situation like everyone else.

There is a difference between going for a tank and playing and developing at the same time. This franchise has not shown me anything other than they are playing the long game and nothing is done for instant gratification. There is a plan for the franchise, there is a plan for each prospect. There is nothing being done to show me that they are simply lost and floundering. The coaching staff and management are following through with their plans. Whatever the fans rant and rave about.

DQ's weird lineups and changes seem a little lost and grasping for straws though. I get they're trying to get the players (esp the young ones) to buy into the system, and play the "right way", but maybe let the players just be sometimes. Ex players like Lemieux who can play with an edge, we need that. Stop benching players for one mistake and playing their game. His comments on Kakko not being able to play the same in the nhl as in Finland... let's try not to completely stifle and change our #2 pick. The fans could chill a bit too, Buchnevich takes one penalty during a shift he is very actively fighting for the puck, and takes a penalty and is in everyone's doghouse now. DeAngelo may never become a very good 2-way d-man, but I believe the focus should be to excel what you are already good at. Him being a more offensively minded d. We don't want something like what happened to Skjei to happen to TDA. I hope one of the plans for the franchise is to show up to every game 100% prepared, excited to go.