Player Discussion David Quinn

[Machinehead]

I know you don't have to be told this but timing is everything even in hockey. Back then we were at war with Russia, and now we're at war with ourselves, the opponent on the battlefields is irrelevant so is the tactical moves in regards to the short-term gains. We eventually want to start taking the war to them and winning it out right instead of having to nickel-and-dime all these nickel-and-dime moves.

When this franchise last won the cup we were pretty stacked and loaded with prospects that gave Neil Smith a lot of leverage, he could have kept certain guys that were very talented but maybe not the guys you want to go to the ultimate war with and I think that's really the ultimate goal, No?

Don't forget 94 cup core and players traded to make it happen didn't start to look like a contender until 7 years since Richter was drafted and took almost 10 years to come to fruition.

Don't tell me the Rangers are suddenly enamored with bad players to help the tank when they've always been enamored with bad players.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Officially done with this guy.

Just another one who thinks he invented hockey and hates talent.

He hates talent....but Chytil plays. So does Pionk who lacks all physicality and Def acumen. I thought I saw Zib and Zucc out there too.

I've never see people more unreasonable about anything on here the way people are unreasonable about this ADA, Buch nonsense

Edge was just talking about people becoming caricatures of themselves

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Still feel as though Tom Renney is unappreciated around here.

We are arguing about Quinn instilling a new sense of work ethic/culture, but the job Renney did, when you consider where the team has been in the 7-8 years prior, was amazing. He made me proud to be a Ranger fan again.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Don't tell me the Rangers are suddenly enamored with bad players to help the tank when they've always been enamored with bad players.

Your issue has been, is, and always will be tied to roster management/player development. The cold hard truth is that the Rangers just don't have a talented roster. Your ability to pin this entirely on the coach is a case study in scapegoating.

 

[Machinehead]

Your issue has been, is, and always will be tied to roster management/player development. The cold hard truth is that the Rangers just don't have a talented roster. Your ability to pin this entirely on the coach is a case study in scapegoating.

Not having a talented roster doesn't excuse you from choosing to play your worst version of it.

 

[Machinehead]

He hates talent....but Chytil plays. So does Pionk who lacks all physicality and Def acumen. I thought I saw Zib and Zucc out there too.

I've never see people more unreasonable about anything on here the way people are unreasonable about this ADA, Buch nonsense

Edge was just talking about people becoming caricatures of themselves

"Oh, he hates talent but I see Pionk out there" is a caricature of itself.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

"Oh, he hates talent but I see Pionk out there" is a caricature of itself.

Thought I mentioned zucc, zib and chytil too. Every response you make is purposely simplified to the point where I think u have to be f***ing around

 

[Machinehead]

Thought I mentioned zucc, zib and chytil too. Every response you make is purposely simplified to the point where I think u have to be ****ing around

Sorry, the take that playing Neal f***ing Pionk paints you as a coach that favors young talented players was so hilariously bad that it was all I had the mental capacity to handle at the time.

Oh, he plays some of our best players. I'll send him a gift basket for figuring that one out.

Too bad he can't figure it out on the blueline.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

He hates talent....but Chytil plays.

It took Quinn like 2 months to realize putting Chytil on the 4th line wasn't a bright idea

 

[effen]

It took Quinn like 2 months to realize putting Chytil on the 4th line wasn't a bright idea

It took Chytil 2 months to play himself off the 4th line.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

It took Chytil 2 months to play himself off the 4th line.

This isnt true but whatever

 

[bobbop]

I think Quinn knows that ADA can be a player. He wants to mold him now rather than keep dealing with the problem. Ice time is often the only tool a coach has to discipline a highly paid player. It kills players not to play.

I was very skeptical on ADA until the last 5-6 weeks but I'm coming around. There is some there there. It's up to Quinn to harness that talent and accelerate the kids maturity (after all he just turned 23) and get him on a solid path to the future.

 

[nyr2k2]

The only "issues" I've really seen have been the ADA thing, which I've said repeatedly I don't think is an issue, and maybe the Andersson thing. So basically one thing I find problematic. And obviously playing Pionk as much as he was is problematic but I don't think he's doing that because he think Pionk is a 1D but probably because he likes something else about Pionk and is rewarding it. Seems his minutes have dropped lately though. The defense in general sucks, though, so I don't know what combinations would change that. ADA playing certainly helps, but again, there's a separate issue there, clearly. We're trying to build something, so things aren't always going to be based strictly on talent which is totally fine by me. It's why I'm not even that upset about the Andersson situation.

 

[True Blue]

Too bad he can't figure it out on the blueline.

So you are done with him because he has the temerity to bench ADA for issues that he discussed over and over with him again? Does he hate players with talent or maybe does ADA has turrets syndrome and simply does not get it? What does it tell you that it has been clearly communicated and DeAngelo STILL either forgot or think that the demands did not apply to him?

Quinn has 19 and 20 year olds watching him. If a 23 year old man, how is now on his third NHL team in his young career does not do what his coach CLEARLY communicated, what do you expect him to do? How would rewarding DeAngleo benefit the culture that Quinn is tasked with creating?

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

It took Quinn like 2 months to realize putting Chytil on the 4th line wasn't a bright idea

How exactly has Chytil suffered because of this?

Let's go in the wayback machine.

He was getting killed physically, his confidence was low and he was not playing well. He was given limited minutes, and when he was ready, he reclaimed a higher spot in the lineup.

Now what makes more sense.

What I just said.

Or Quinn just hates talented players and doesn't play them....

Let's not forget he is playing talented players all over the lineup of all ages AND when vets and young players return from limited time/scratches they've almost all played much better. This lends a TON of credence to the idea that these coaches are seeing flaws/things to work on and taking the time to work on and fix these issues with players...y'know...like coaches. Isee no evidence that he just hates talent and couldn't "figure out" where to play guys.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Sorry, the take that playing Neal ****ing Pionk paints you as a coach that favors young talented players was so hilariously bad that it was all I had the mental capacity to handle at the time.
.

I get being passionately against something (See: Me and AV)

I don't get why someone would use playing dumb as their only way to have a discussion on a public forum where everyone can easily read the flow of conversation and see how dumb you're (hopefully) pretending to be. Your literal strategy here is to pretend that you were too imbecilic to comprehend what I said.

At BEST you could've said that Pionk doesn't belong aside those names because he isn't talented enough. You maybe could notice that among the list of names I provided, he's the only one I took time to add a few qualifiers to. You maybe would be able to put two and two together to figure out that clearly I wasn't putting him in that same category of talent. But if you did all that you'd have killed your only response.

You'd still be ignoring the entire point but I guess that's what you're trying to do

The point was NOT "Quinn favors young talent". He might. Wasn't my point though. He doesn't hate them. He plays them. Some play a lot.

As for Pionk, you can't be bereft of talent and pull off that end to end goal he had. Is he oozing talent? Obviously not and like I said it's more than fair to say he doesn't belong with the other names I listed.

 

[Machinehead]

I get being passionately against something (See: Me and AV)

I don't get why someone would use playing dumb as their only way to have a discussion on a public forum where everyone can easily read the flow of conversation and see how dumb you're (hopefully) pretending to be. Your literal strategy here is to pretend that you were too imbecilic to comprehend what I said.

At BEST you could've said that Pionk doesn't belong aside those names because he isn't talented enough. You maybe could notice that among the list of names I provided, he's the only one I took time to add a few qualifiers to. You maybe would be able to put two and two together to figure out that clearly I wasn't putting him in that same category of talent. But if you did all that you'd have killed your only response.

You'd still be ignoring the entire point but I guess that's what you're trying to do

The point was NOT "Quinn favors young talent". He might. Wasn't my point though. He doesn't hate them. He plays them. Some play a lot.

As for Pionk, you can't be bereft of talent and pull off that end to end goal he had. Is he oozing talent? Obviously not and like I said it's more than fair to say he doesn't belong with the other names I listed.

But you knew Pionk didn't belong in that response. You're the one playing dumb.

Yes, Quinn plays some talented players but only if they meet his qualifiers (whatever those are, I don't know exactly how he defines "the things I wanna see"). What we do know is that it has nothing to do with hockey ability, and that's abundantly clear from the choices he's making. Now we're in a situation where if you're not already one of his guys, being talented is a bad thing. This is evidenced by him continuing to bench talented players over McLeod who, to me, is soft, lazy, and immature. There's a perception (not just with Quinn) around the league that if you f***ing blow, you must be doing something, where often times, I don't find these players to be any more committed than their more talented counterparts. Now, given the choice between poor character and talented, and poor character and sucks, Quinn is literally going to punish players for being talented. That's what I mean by he hates talent.

That's not to say I put Pionk on the same level as McLeod who I think is just the most worthless human being drawing breath. I wouldn't say that. But do I look at Pionk and think "man, this guy really lays it all on the line"? No. f*** no. He's just perceived as being that because he f***ing sucks. I could see that with McQuaid, he's legit, but not Pionk. Not that character ever mattered that much to me, but as long as we're measuring it, Pionk doesn't strike me as a player with outstanding character. His character gets a boost because he sucks, and now we're back to punishing players because they're talented.

Again, yes, Quinn plays talented players. A monkey could take talented players who also have "character" (depending on your perception of it) and insert them in the lineup. When he doesn't have that and he has to choose, Quinn has demonstrated that 1) he misidentifies sucking at hockey as character and 2) will choose character every single time, whether it's real (McQuaid) or not (McLeod). You know who that reminds me of? AV.

You talked about your passionate resistance to AV. I get that. That doesn't mean that just because we changed the smug and pompous attitude, we've changed the philosophy. You're certainly not the only one, many posters are guilty this season of letting Quinn get away with absolute murder because he's physically not Alain Vigneault.

 

[True Blue]

Now we're in a situation where if you're not already one of his guys, being talented is a bad thing.

Aside from benching Buch or ADA, is there anything anywhere that you can say that being talented, in Quinn's eyes, is a bad thing?

This is evidenced by him continuing to bench talented players over McLeod who, to me, is soft, lazy, and immature.

How is McLeod immature of all things? The guy is a professional player. Plays hard all the time. Makes himself visible all the time. Calling him "immature" is just a feeble attempt to project the issues that Quinn has with DeAngelo onto another player in an effort to enhance your argument.

What rookie would you rather play McLeod's 5-6 minutes a night and make be just as visible as he is? He brings at attitude with him. That has an effect on rest of the line up.

But do I look at Pionk and think "man, this guy really lays it all on the line"? No. **** no. He's just perceived as being that because he ****ing sucks.

He is percieved to be a hard worker because he sucks. How does this sentence even make sense?

When he doesn't have that and he has to choose, Quinn has demonstrated that 1) he misidentifies sucking at hockey as character and 2) will choose character every single time, whether it's real (McQuaid) or not (McLeod).

In other words, he does not do what you KNOW to be the right thing and does what he feels is best for the player and the team. How dare he not reward DeAngelo for doing what he has been told over and over he should not do ? This prodigy on ice should be on the ice no matter what.

 

[SA16]

Aside from benching Buch or ADA, is there anything anywhere that you can say that being talented, in Quinn's eyes, is a bad thing?

He is percieved to be a hard worker because he sucks. How does this sentence even make sense?

This is always the case for players and teams. Teams and players that are bad almost always have the reputation of being hard workers due to fans/media needing to rationalize some reason that they are in the NHL. Since it's nothing to do with their skill it comes down to declaring them hard workers.

 

[haveandare]

Not having a talented roster doesn't excuse you from choosing to play your worst version of it.

No but playing a developmental season where winning holds essentially no value does excuse using icetime as leverage to teach certain players how you want them to play.

 

[Machinehead]

Aside from benching Buch or ADA, is there anything anywhere that you can say that being talented, in Quinn's eyes, is a bad thing?

So when did he do it besides the two times he did it?

How is McLeod immature of all things? The guy is a professional player. Plays hard all the time. Makes himself visible all the time. Calling him "immature" is just a feeble attempt to project the issues that Quinn has with DeAngelo onto another player in an effort to enhance your argument.

The only time McLeod ever makes himself visible is when he's taking a dumb penalty or mouthing off to someone before hiding behind the ref. Otherwise he loafs around the ice. Even if you value intimidation, McLeod doesn't bring it. He's a candy ass. He's fought more officials this year than opponents.

What rookie would you rather play McLeod's 5-6 minutes a night and make be just as visible as he is? He brings at attitude with him. That has an effect on rest of the line up.

Wrong.

He is percieved to be a hard worker because he sucks. How does this sentence even make sense?

You may not want to believe it but that's how it works in this league.

Ever notice how every single unskilled player, without fail, is one of the hardest workers in the league? Doesn't that seem unlikely to you?

The fact that you think lazy, soft McLeod brings it every shift and brings attitude is proof that this perception is a thing.

In other words, he does not do what you KNOW to be the right thing and does what he feels is best for the player and the team. How dare he not reward DeAngelo for doing what he has been told over and over he should not do ? This prodigy on ice should be on the ice no matter what.

You can play the appeal to the authority card all you want and word it whatever sensationalist way you want. Yes, your best defenseman should be on the ice. It's simple.

No but playing a developmental season where winning holds essentially no value does excuse using icetime as leverage to teach certain players how you want them to play.

If this was actually it, I'd be fine with that. I know better, I've been watching this team for too long.

As I've said over and over again, it's just the Rangers valuing character over skill like they always have. They were doing the exact same shit in 2015 when we were the best team in the league.

 

[haveandare]

If this was actually it, I'd be fine with that. I know better, I've been watching this team for too long.

As I've said over and over again, it's just the Rangers valuing character over skill like they always have. They were doing the exact same **** in 2015 when we were the best team in the league.

"I just know this isn't what's happening because I have an innate ability to know" isn't a convincing argument for anything.

And what past coaches did isn't relevant in the slightest bit now with a different coach. Do you honestly think Sather is telling Gorton to tell Quinn how to make minor game to game roster decisions? Or that Quinn isn't actually trying to mould players into what he wants but is instead basing his decisions off of a desire to make similar decisions to past fired coaches from this franchise?

 

[Machinehead]

"I just know this isn't what's happening because I have an innate ability to know" isn't a convincing argument for anything.

And what past coaches did isn't relevant in the slightest bit now with a different coach. Do you honestly think Sather is telling Gorton to tell Quinn how to make minor game to game roster decisions? Or that Quinn isn't actually trying to mould players into what he wants but is instead basing his decisions off of a desire to make similar decisions to past fired coaches from this franchise?

It's not an innate ability. I've seen them do it before.

The argument always comes up that old faces have no bearing on the new faces but for one, teams absolutely develop cultures, and Sather's people still run the team.

Glen Sather is the sitting President of the New York Rangers. The idea that we've completely changed is unfounded. Character and grit was always Sather's thing.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

It's not an innate ability. I've seen them do it before.

The argument always comes up that old faces have no bearing on the new faces but for one, teams absolutely develop cultures, and Sather's people still run the team.

Glen Sather is the sitting President of the New York Rangers. The idea that we've completely changed is unfounded. Character and grit was always Sather's thing.

I understand where you’re coming from, and I do agree to a large extent, but it’s an NHL as a whole thing and not just a Sather thing

 

[Machinehead]

I understand where you’re coming from, and I do agree to a large extent, but it’s an NHL as a whole thing and not just a Sather thing

Absolutely, but other teams have top-end players and do stupid shit with their depth. I've accepted that fate if it comes to that.

The Rangers have always tried to build around character and fill-in talent via free agency.

Their most recent draft was promising, but I've seen nothing with the big club that indicates that philosophy has changed.