Player Discussion David Quinn: Part V

[JHS]

Trotz has how many more years experience as an NHL coach than Quinn does?

And I have said this too many times to do it again: It took Trotz 11 years to win a playoff series and in those years missed his teams playoffs the majority of the time. So let's not act like Quinn has failed to be the wunderkind Trotz was when he got his first NHL head coaching job.

Do you think it’s easy to stay in the league 11 years? Do you think the Caps hired him and trusted them with their “ready made” lineup because he was awful in Nashville? Has Trotz become universally acknowledged as a probably future hall of fame NHL coach by most experts?!? I mean NHL franchises don’t just give awful coaches jobs who have a 11 year track record of ruining players. Plus I’ll spin it this way— if Trotz had 11 years developing NHL talent experience then he way even more a better hire than Quinn who literally was begging top players to play for his college team. Again- if you can’t see how that’s radically different then nothing I will say will help!

Please just stop- it’s honestly like you just argue to do it while each response just makes you look more and more lost. I’m not going down this rabbit hole with you— you just pick fights for the sake of doing it— I almost wonder if it’s like a game for you or maybe you are in law school or something.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

I’m going to sum up the issues I have with Quinn. I don’t like how he’s handled the kids. I think the kid line is a bad idea and it’s had little success. They struggle to transition and maintain a presence in the offensive zone. Often times they try to move in, but one poor pass and they lose the puck and their shift is essentially over. This extends to the PP. There’s zero reason Blackwell should be on PP2 over Laf. And I think putting Laf on PP2 could help his confidence. A point or two could lead to better 5v5 shifts from him. With that, I think if the game is a blowout either way, Quinn really should start PP2 to give them some time and a better chance to score, because often time they get on with less than a minute left and having to set up. Have all the kids on there on the same group and get them to build more productive chemistry.

The lines in general need to change. Blackwell should not be on the top line. Kakko or Krav should be on their. Blackwell should give the junp to the 4th line. Again, the kids should not all be together. Put Mika, Buch, and Laf together. Put Kreider, Chytil, and Krav together. Rooney, Blackwell, and whoever the last one is together. Spread out the youth over the top 3 lines. Not only can they be more consistent, but they can directly learn from the vets in real time. The fact Quinn refuses to do this is frustrating. The fact the PP units are the way they are is frustrating. He’s more than willing to jumble the lines around, except in the aforementioned configurations, and he refuses to change the PP units.

The inconsistency in how he rewards play is terrible. His treatment of Howden as his pet is Glass level bad. The fact he played Bittetto two games in a row is disrespectful to the fans. I just don’t get his mindset and I don’t think he’s hard enough on the vets and isn’t putting the rookies in the best position to win. The lack of consistency is hugely on Quinn. We could and should be better, and we are too frequently unprepared and don’t make good adjustments.

I do think this team would be better with a different coach. I just don’t know if any of the ones available would be better. I do think it’s just about time for a change of scenery. Maybe things will be way better next year just being in a more normal situation. I’m just extremely concerned that we have a foundation for something great, and poor management and coaching keeps us from reaching our true potential.

 

[smoneil]

Here's my rating: I give Quinn a pineapple.

The tropical fruit rating is the worst. Gorton gave Quinn a lime and a coconut, but the damned fool won't put the former into the latter and he STILL can't figure out why nobody is drinking up and feeling better.

 

[bl02]

Please play Gauthier. Howden has regressed year after year since he's been here. We have seen what he is. Enough. There is no getting better with his game.

 

[RGY]

Harvard and destiny.

With crimson in triumph flashing....

You’re really hanging onto that whole destiny thing huh... like really blowing that one out of proportion. You decided to not reply to my retort and instead take your lame pot shots in other posts. Big man you are.

Hey everyone Fox was developed by David Quinn. We have David Quinn to thank. Its not even remotely possible that Fox was on this path with or without David Quinn as the coach. When Quinn got his hands on him in that 1st TC, he taught Fox everything he has been doing since his 1st game. The head fakes, the shoulder fakes, the spin moves, all that help evade defenders and open up the ice. The skating ability. The passing, the vision. The hockey IQ. That was all Quinn folks. He made that happen during a 2-3 week Training Camp that allowed him to be able to do those things from Game 1 in the NHL. Everyone, please thank Quinn...

 

[Anthony5967]

I’m going to sum up the issues I have with Quinn. I don’t like how he’s handled the kids. I think the kid line is a bad idea and it’s had little success. They struggle to transition and maintain a presence in the offensive zone. Often times they try to move in, but one poor pass and they lose the puck and their shift is essentially over. This extends to the PP. There’s zero reason Blackwell should be on PP2 over Laf. And I think putting Laf on PP2 could help his confidence. A point or two could lead to better 5v5 shifts from him. With that, I think if the game is a blowout either way, Quinn really should start PP2 to give them some time and a better chance to score, because often time they get on with less than a minute left and having to set up. Have all the kids on there on the same group and get them to build more productive chemistry.

The lines in general need to change. Blackwell should not be on the top line. Kakko or Krav should be on their. Blackwell should give the junp to the 4th line. Again, the kids should not all be together. Put Mika, Buch, and Laf together. Put Kreider, Chytil, and Krav together. Rooney, Blackwell, and whoever the last one is together. Spread out the youth over the top 3 lines. Not only can they be more consistent, but they can directly learn from the vets in real time. The fact Quinn refuses to do this is frustrating. The fact the PP units are the way they are is frustrating. He’s more than willing to jumble the lines around, except in the aforementioned configurations, and he refuses to change the PP units.

The inconsistency in how he rewards play is terrible. His treatment of Howden as his pet is Glass level bad. The fact he played Bittetto two games in a row is disrespectful to the fans. I just don’t get his mindset and I don’t think he’s hard enough on the vets and isn’t putting the rookies in the best position to win. The lack of consistency is hugely on Quinn. We could and should be better, and we are too frequently unprepared and don’t make good adjustments.

I do think this team would be better with a different coach. I just don’t know if any of the ones available would be better. I do think it’s just about time for a change of scenery. Maybe things will be way better next year just being in a more normal situation. I’m just extremely concerned that we have a foundation for something great, and poor management and coaching keeps us from reaching our true potential.

As is mine. Haven’t heard a peep out of Davidson too all year. He’s happy with this year? Panarin has to play God and Fox has to play Leetch in order for them to “be in the hunt.” His ****** development of Kakko in year two is nothing short of atrocious. I know Blackwell plays hard and everything but he’s a RW4. This coach uses him like he’s the second coming of Marchessault. He’s truly in over his head. Again, like I told my father today, if all this worked and they were in the playoffs, he’d have a leg to stand on, but the fact of the matter is they’re very unprepared, and his management of our two franchise forward prospects is abysmal. Even Vitaly has earned a promotion with his play but continues to be bolted to Rooney and Howden, the team’s two worst forwards. Is he watching games? They’re not even a playoff team. None of these moves have done a damn thing. The PP2 thing is a disgrace, a disgrace that Kakko is out there 25 seconds, Laf isn’t at all, and not even Chytil or Kravtsov on it. I’m not even confident they’ll fire this bozo. As much as the front office has done a good job drafting, they’re about to destroy the entire thing if they don’t get the proper coaching in place. No reason to expect Laf and Kakko to light up the scoresheet when they have to do all their scoring and offense generating at even strength all game.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

10 GAMES

The countdown is on....Quinn's final 10 games as head coach of the New York Rangers.

 

[TUQ]

10 GAMES

The countdown is on....Quinn's final 10 games as head coach of the New York Rangers.

I would not count (down) on this.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I would not count (down) on this.

I am. JD isn't a dumb guy, the Quinn experiment will end after this season. Too much is on the line with the young players we have for him to screw it up.

 

[kovazub94]

One Quinn hater rages that they need to make the playoffs. Another states that the playoffs should not be a goal for next year. Y'all should make up your minds.

As far as the playoffs, that this team is even sniffing them after all that has gone on this year, is an accomplishment. And the fact that they are in the playoffs in any other division is an accomplishment. And the fact that in any normal year, they are in the playoffs as a wild card is an accomplishment.

Also the youngest team in the league.

Regardless. These points have been posted a numerous times but as I’m catching up on this thread I bet @SnowblindNYR will ignore them all together again and will just go back to post tantrums “with this roster blah blah blah... Fire Quinn”

 

[chosen]

Plus I’ll spin it this way— if Trotz had 11 years developing NHL talent experience then he way even more a better hire than Quinn who literally was begging top players to play for his college team. Again- if you can’t see how that’s radically different then nothing I will say will help!....

Trotz is one of the few coaches with a proven track record, but what does Quinn begging top players to play in Boston have to do with his abilities as a coach?

 

[chosen]

You’re really hanging onto that whole destiny thing huh... like really blowing that one out of proportion. You decided to not reply to my retort and instead take your lame pot shots in other posts. Big man you are.

Hey everyone Fox was developed by David Quinn. We have David Quinn to thank. Its not even remotely possible that Fox was on this path with or without David Quinn as the coach. When Quinn got his hands on him in that 1st TC, he taught Fox everything he has been doing since his 1st game. The head fakes, the shoulder fakes, the spin moves, all that help evade defenders and open up the ice. The skating ability. The passing, the vision. The hockey IQ. That was all Quinn folks. He made that happen during a 2-3 week Training Camp that allowed him to be able to do those things from Game 1 in the NHL. Everyone, please thank Quinn...

The problem with what you're saying that we should blame Quinn for players not performing up to expectations, but not give credit for those who exceed expectations is that either both sides make sense or they don't.

I'm of the belief that how a player develops is 90 something per cent on the player, with minimal impact coming from the coach.

The notion that some coaches ruin some players, to me, is pure nonsense that is 100% unprovable.

 

[chosen]

Also the youngest team in the league.

Regardless. These points have been posted a numerous times but as I’m catching up on this thread I bet @SnowblindNYR will ignore them all together again and will just go back to post tantrums “with this roster blah blah blah... Fire Quinn”

I believe he's the poster who thought Lundqvist was a pure trash goalie in every game he ever played, so...

 

[RGY]

The problem with what you're saying that we should blame Quinn for players not performing up to expectations, but not give credit for those who exceed expectations is that either both sides make sense or they don't.

I'm of the belief that how a player develops is 90 something per cent on the player, with minimal impact coming from the coach.

The notion that some coaches ruin some players, to me, is pure nonsense that is 100% unprovable.

But I have not once stated he has ruined players. That has not been part of my argument. I think he has mishandled, or mismanaged players, but I don’t think he has ruined any. Lias to me has a skating issue at this level, as one example. Gauthier getting stapled to the press box while Howden continues to play is an issue for me. Chytil has stagnated imo. I dont like the kids all on one line. I think Quinn is a fraud when it comes to accountability. Some have almost no leash while others can do no wrong. I love Kreider but he should be on the 3rd line, if anything to mix up the lines and players.

Its personnel management which I think has been a reoccurring issue during his time here, every year. And the other thing is constant inconsistency. This team all season long and going back to last season does not show up enough. They dont look prepared especially in big games. This a young team, yes, but they hardly ever come out of the gate darting around the ice. They never provide a full 60 minute effort. Its one thing to lose games, but to not bring that energy every night ready to play is on the Coach... or its the players not buying into this Coach. And that just doesnt work for me.

 

[chosen]

But I have not once stated he has ruined players. That has not been part of my argument. I think he has mishandled, or mismanaged players, but I don’t think he has ruined any. Lias to me has a skating issue at this level, as one example. Gauthier getting stapled to the press box while Howden continues to play is an issue for me. Chytil has stagnated imo. I dont like the kids all on one line. I think Quinn is a fraud when it comes to accountability. Some have almost no leash while others can do no wrong. I love Kreider but he should be on the 3rd line, if anything to mix up the lines and players.

Its personnel management which I think has been a reoccurring issue during his time here, every year. And the other thing is constant inconsistency. This team all season long and going back to last season does not show up enough. They dont look prepared especially in big games. This a young team, yes, but they hardly ever come out of the gate darting around the ice. They never provide a full 60 minute effort. Its one thing to lose games, but to not bring that energy every night ready to play is on the Coach... or its the players not buying into this Coach. And that just doesnt work for me.

Then your issue isn't with Quinn. It's with management above him for continuing to employ him.

Middle-of-the-pack teams are inconsistent. That's the definition of those kinds of teams.

This means you believe the Rangers should definitely be in the playoffs. I don't share that belief. Doesn't mean that one of us is right or wrong. It's impossible to prove in either direction.

No matter who coaches next season, I fully expect them to make the playoffs. Replacing Hajek with Lundqvist and the natural progression of the kids should put them in.

If Quinn is gone, that will be the reason cited by many here for the success. If Quinn is still here and they get in, the take here will either be they got in despite him or he has gotten smarter.

One thing I can guarantee is that whomever possibly replaces Quinn, they will be called an absolute idiot by some fans, here.

BTW, you're saying that Fox is a success because of Fox, but Chytil has underachieved because of Quinn. How does that work?

 

[RGY]

Then your issue isn't with Quinn. It's with management above him for continuing to employ him.

Middle-of-the-pack teams are inconsistent. That's the definition of those kinds of teams.

This means you believe the Rangers should definitely be in the playoffs. I don't share that belief. Doesn't mean that one of us is right or wrong. It's impossible to prove in either direction.

No matter who coaches next season, I fully expect them to make the playoffs. Replacing Hajek with Lundqvist and the natural progression of the kids should put them in.

If Quinn is gone, that will be the reason cited by many here for the success. If Quinn is still here and they get in, the take here will either be they got in despite him or he has gotten smarter.

One thing I can guarantee is that whomever possibly replaces Quinn, they will be called an absolute idiot by some fans, here.

BTW, you're saying that Fox is a success because of Fox, but Chytil has underachieved because of Quinn. How does that work?

Where did I say I expected this team to make the playoffs? Please go find it. I have not said it once. I dont think I even said it before the season started which would be a natural time to be excited and have hope.

Wanting the team to show up looking prepared ready to play from puck drop AND having realistic expectations for this year do not have to be mutually exclusive. Why does wanting the team to play with some sort of identity and just giving a consistent effort have to be blended with something else. These are basic asks of a fan base, especially asking it of a young team. Why cant the Coach get the Team to show up? Why cant they play a 60 minute effort? Why cant they hold leads in the 3rd period, especially when Jacques Martin has clearly helped with the Team Defense significantly improving this year?

On Chytil, again point to where I blamed DQ? I said the player has stagnated. I didnt say Quinn ruined him. When it comes to Chytil, it is just as much on him as it would be on anything else. But he certainly isnt taking giant steps. His energy level in his skating has dropped. He is making bad decisions with the puck. The whole line cant sustain possession, and I think he is a large part of the problem on that line. Kakko is really the only kid who can maintain holding onto the puck.

The point is... is Quinn some horrible person? No. Maybe he can be a good coach at the NHL level in the future. But right now, this team does not respond enough to him. They just dont. If you look at this team’s effort night in and night out and you dont think their is a coaching problem then i dont know what to tell you.

Edit: And yes I do have an issue with Gorton, and to a lesser extent JD, for employing David Quinn.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Also the youngest team in the league.

Regardless. These points have been posted a numerous times but as I’m catching up on this thread I bet @SnowblindNYR will ignore them all together again and will just go back to post tantrums “with this roster blah blah blah... Fire Quinn”

Let's hang the "we would have made the playoffs in another division banner". Bottom line we're not only not making the playoffs it won't be close by the end. Bottom line is, this was a bubble type game and they had their worst loss of the season. Every time the team has an important game against an opponent not called the Devils they shit their pants.

 

[kovazub94]

Let's hang the "we would have made the playoffs in another division banner". Bottom line we're not only not making the playoffs it won't be close by the end. Bottom line is, this was a bubble type game and they had their worst loss of the season. Every time the team has an important game against an opponent not called the Devils they shit their pants.

Yeah, just as I said...

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yeah, just as I said...

You can ignore the facts of the team being unprepared in big games and just scoff at it.

 

[kovazub94]

You can ignore the facts of the team being unprepared in big games and just scoff at it.

As someone already pointed out how the back to backs against the same Isles where the Rangers got 3/4 points were deemed less big?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

As someone already pointed out how the back to backs against the same Isles where the Rangers got 3/4 points were deemed less big?

They were deemed less big because it was earlier in the season and there was more room for error (I know it wasn't much earlier but with so few games left every game that passes has meaning). Also, at the time the Bruins were the team to catch and had three tough games to play, then they won all of the games and the Rangers needed to win all of their Islanders games and they didn't even show up.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

As someone already pointed out how the back to backs against the same Isles where the Rangers got 3/4 points were deemed less big?

And at what point does it fall upon the players to make sure they're prepared? If a player can't get up for a rivalry game on the road (against a team that you've had success against of late) what exactly is a coach to do?

You know, for a developing team—which this team is—there is a real value in getting a real ass-kicking like they did. It also should show where there are needs in the lineup. After the CAR series, there was talk about the need for more North/South players. Well, those guys aren't on the team yet.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I would not count (down) on this.

Unfortunately neither would I.

We’ll have to suffer through another slow start next year before this even becomes an option.

 

[JHS]

Trotz is one of the few coaches with a proven track record, but what does Quinn begging top players to play in Boston have to do with his abilities as a coach?

It shows how different Quinn's experience level was compared to Trotz. If you are recruiting people to play college level hockey you are obviously not simultaneously developing NHL talent. The point of the comparison is not to evaluate in game coaching but to show just how wildly different the two coaches are in terms of being well suited to coach in the NHL.

 

[True Blue]

Quinn's job is to integrate and elevate the young players in order to create a contender, and create the underlying structure and culture to achieve the cup. Tampa is the gold standard of resent years, a team that got it right. I don't see that level of competency from Quinn.

Would you rather he developed prospects like say a Trotz?