Player Discussion David Quinn: Part V

[True Blue]

Though it IS rather interesting that the young defensemen who have been developed (and who we both point to as examples of Quinn's success) have ALL done so by getting solid minutes and regular shifts while playing on the power play. So the players who have developed have done so by Quinn using them exactly the way we want him to use the young forwards. Funny that, no?

There are only 6 defensemen as opposed to 12 forwards. So it is far, far easier to get time to one set than the other.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Would you rather he developed prospects like say a Trotz?

Or Quinn should be just as suited now as Trotz in now after he was given the slack to go 11 years without winning a playoff series, 6 with no playoff appearance.

 

[True Blue]

I’m going to sum up the issues I have with Quinn. I don’t like how he’s handled the kids.

Do you pine for Trotz? Would you rather it was him that was developing the kids?

If not him, then who?

 

[True Blue]

Or Quinn should be just as suited now as Trotz in now after he was given the slack to go 11 years without winning a playoff series, 6 with no playoff appearance.

Or let's judge by Colorado. Remind me, how long ago were their top players drafted?

 

[MrAlmost]

Quinn seems to have a style or a way about him that gets through to dmen, but not forwards. The obvious progression of Miller, Fox, Lindgren, Hajek and even Reunanen, when he got into the lineup, is pretty clear.

Yet Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Howden, and Goat don't seem to be as impactful. Though there are little things. Kakko might end up an all situations player that many might have not thought with his good stick work, solid attacking lines and exit ability out of the defensive zone. Laf may just be too young. He has had flashes so who knows. Chytil just can't pass all that well. He doesn't have the awareness. But he is still young just like the rest. Howden is, not good.

It's just such a weird year and I don't want to jump to conclusions as evidence right now points both ways.

 

[True Blue]

Hey everyone Fox was developed by David Quinn. We have David Quinn to thank. Its not even remotely possible that Fox was on this path with or without David Quinn as the coach. When Quinn got his hands on him in that 1st TC, he taught Fox everything he has been doing since his 1st game. The head fakes, the shoulder fakes, the spin moves, all that help evade defenders and open up the ice. The skating ability. The passing, the vision. The hockey IQ. That was all Quinn folks. He made that happen during a 2-3 week Training Camp that allowed him to be able to do those things from Game 1 in the NHL. Everyone, please thank Quinn...

2-3 weeks of camp? What about before camp? Did he not step a toe onto Rangers ice? Did he first meet Quinn during camp?

Praise the all mighty. We have....The Immaculate Prospect. Born perfect. Like I said, SO PERFECT that he was drafted in the third round where all perfect prospects get drafted.

 

[True Blue]

Quinn seems to have a style or a way about him that gets through to dmen, but not forwards. The obvious progression of Miller, Fox, Lindgren, Hajek and even Reunanen, when he got into the lineup, is pretty clear.

Yet Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Howden, and Goat don't seem to be as impactful. Though there are little things. Kakko might end up an all situations player that many might have not thought with his good stick work, solid attacking lines and exit ability out of the defensive zone. Laf may just be too young. He has had flashes so who knows. Chytil just can't pass all that well. He doesn't have the awareness. But he is still young just like the rest. Howden is, not good.

It's just such a weird year and I don't want to jump to conclusions as evidence right now points both ways.

Chytil is pacing 40 points. We were all raving about how Kakko is turning into a beast before everyone's eyes.

Laf? Going with the fact that a 10 month layoff, no camp and no preseason games are just not good for a 19 year old.

Howden and Gauthier? Come on. Are you really going to lump them in? In which case, I will bring up how Strome has finally become the player he was thought when he was taken 5th overall.

 

[True Blue]

On Chytil, again point to where I blamed DQ? I said the player has stagnated. I didnt say Quinn ruined him. When it comes to Chytil, it is just as much on him as it would be on anything else. But he certainly isnt taking giant steps. His energy level in his skating has dropped. He is making bad decisions with the puck. The whole line cant sustain possession, and I think he is a large part of the problem on that line. Kakko is really the only kid who can maintain holding onto the puck.

Chytil is also pacing 40 points in a year that he contracted COVID and had a serious injury. How much more were you expecting of him? Being a 40sih point player is not considered good progress?

 

[True Blue]

Yeah, just as I said...

In other news, water is found to be wet.

 

[MrAlmost]

Chytil is pacing 40 points. We were all raving about how Kakko is turning into a beast before everyone's eyes.

Laf? Going with the fact that a 10 month layoff, no camp and no preseason games are just not good for a 19 year old.

Howden and Gauthier? Come on. Are you really going to lump them in? In which case, I will bring up how Strome has finally become the player he was thought when he was taken 5th overall.

I think I stated that there are signs that those players are doing good things. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Also, I like Strome. I never said anything about him cause he is a little older. I think Goat is good too. Just not Howden.

I didn't say Chytil was bad, I just don't think he has the best vision on the ice. Honestly, not the worst thing to have a more straight ahead player, but I don't really know if Laf and Kakko are the types of players that will produce with him. Krieder and Blackwell with Chytil might not be terrible. But then no one on the line can pass. Haha.

 

[True Blue]

They were deemed less big because it was earlier in the season and there was more room for error (I know it wasn't much earlier but with so few games left every game that passes has meaning). Also, at the time the Bruins were the team to catch and had three tough games to play, then they won all of the games and the Rangers needed to win all of their Islanders games and they didn't even show up.

So a few games earlier is enough to deem is so far early that it does not meet your arbitrary definition? Must be nice to be the sole arbiter of of your own rules.

 

[True Blue]

I think I stated that there are signs that those players are doing good things. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Also, I like Strome. I never said anything about him cause he is a little older. I think Goat is good too. Just not Howden.

I didn't say Chytil was bad, I just don't think he has the best vision on the ice. Honestly, not the worst thing to have a more straight ahead player, but I don't really know if Laf and Kakko are the types of players that will produce with him. Krieder and Blackwell with Chytil might not be terrible. But then no one on the line can pass. Haha.

Gauthier has shown why Carolina had no real problem trading him. And even with that, the progress in his game has been noticeable. For which the coaching staff should get credit for.

Chytil? Like I said, pacing 40 points is a pretty big step in the right direction.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Chytil is pacing 40 points. We were all raving about how Kakko is turning into a beast before everyone's eyes.

Laf? Going with the fact that a 10 month layoff, no camp and no preseason games are just not good for a 19 year old.

Howden and Gauthier? Come on. Are you really going to lump them in? In which case, I will bring up how Strome has finally become the player he was thought when he was taken 5th overall.

You're also ignoring four other big names. While not prospects, Zibanejad, Panarin, Strome and Buchnevich all have had their best seasons under Quinn.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Trotz has two young players on the team? One is playing on the 4th line and hasn't even been in the lineup that last few games. Dobson has seen his ice time decrease as the season has gone on. They have the 25th ranked powerplay. What about him would make him a good coach for such a young team?

 

[JHS]

Trotz has two young players on the team? One is playing on the 4th line and hasn't even been in the lineup that last few games. Dobson has seen his ice time decrease as the season has gone on. They have the 25th ranked powerplay. What about him would make him a good coach for such a young team?

His 12 plus NHL experience, his ability to coach up an Islanders team that has less top end talent, his ability to speak from a place of experience because he's actually been to a Stanley Cup, his ability to earn, keep and foster respect, his ability to develop a winning culture, the multiple experts who comment on his ability to bring stability to an organization, his structured and predictable approach to the game, his ability to cultivate positive relationships with players, his ability to get players to work hard and do the dirty things, his ability to promote a "tough to play against" team....( literally spent 5 minutes coming up with this list.

The young player argument is irrelevant. These are NHL players who deserve to be coached and treated as such. Do you think Quinn is talking to these young guys any different than he is with a veteran team??? Please, he's not.

The reason the Isles have far fewer young players is because they are a win now team. Totally unfair to use that in your argument.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

His 12 plus NHL experience, his ability to coach up an Islanders team that has less top end talent, his ability to speak from a place of experience because he's actually been to a Stanley Cup, his ability to earn, keep and foster respect, his ability to develop a winning culture, the multiple experts who comment on his ability to bring stability to an organization, his structured and predictable approach to the game, his ability to cultivate positive relationships with players, his ability to get players to work hard and do the dirty things, his ability to promote a "tough to play against" team....( literally spent 5 minutes coming up with this list.

The young player argument is irrelevant. These are NHL players who deserve to be coached and treated as such. Do you think Quinn is talking to these young guys any different than he is with a veteran team??? Please, he's not.

The reason the Isles have far fewer young players is because they are a win now team. Totally unfair to use that in your argument.

You lost me after the bolded. But if you don't think there's a difference in how certain coaches handle younger players, you're mistaken. The rest of your post is a whole bunch of speculation. Sounds nice and all but it feels like you wrote a wish list of the ideal coach. But I do wonder how much influence guys like Ovechkin, Backstromn, and Carlson had on the winning culture and being tough to play against.

 

[RGY]

Chytil is also pacing 40 points in a year that he contracted COVID and had a serious injury. How much more were you expecting of him? Being a 40sih point player is not considered good progress?

I was expecting him not to fall off a cliff with his play over the last month. He HAS stagnated.

Over his last 20 games, he has 9 points and he is a +2.

But 4 of his 9 points came against NJ. 3 points against PHI. Acting like his “40 point pace” is an indication that he is progressing is lazy and convenient for your argument.

 

[SA16]

First career game and he's playing Zac Jones on his off side. Can we try and make things easy for the kid? Does anyone other than like Niklas Hjalmarsson even play well on their off side?

 

[True Blue]

I was expecting him not to fall off a cliff with his play over the last month. He HAS stagnated.

Over his last 20 games, he has 9 points and he is a +2.

But 4 of his 9 points came against NJ. 3 points against PHI. Acting like his “40 point pace” is an indication that he is progressing is lazy and convenient for your argument.

Is he or is he not pacing 40+ points?

 

[RGY]

Is he or is he not pacing 40+ points?

You keep taking everything at face value for your assessments. Keep ignoring who the majority of his points have come against.

Like I said, convenient.

 

[kovazub94]

So a few games earlier is enough to deem is so far early that it does not meet your arbitrary definition? Must be nice to be the sole arbiter of of your own rules.

Let’s all guess what @SnowblindNYR reaction would’ve been if the Rangers won the last game.... (and then lost their following matchup)

 

[True Blue]

You keep taking everything at face value for your assessments. Keep ignoring who the majority of his points have come against.

Like I said, convenient.

So yes, he is. But then again, that represents progress which runs counter to the narrative you have been busy trying to create.

Also, a young player's game being uneven over the course of a season? I am shocked, SHOCKED to find that such things go on.

 

[True Blue]

Let’s all guess what @SnowblindNYR reaction would’ve been if the Rangers won the last game.... (and then the lost to them their following matchup)

Then when the playoffs started would have been moved to fit that particular narrative.

 

[RGY]

So yes, he is. But then again, that represents progress which runs counter to the narrative you have been busy trying to create.

Also, a young player's game being uneven over the course of a season? I am shocked, SHOCKED to find that such things go on.

Again, you are taking everything at face value, as you do with David Quinn. I am not surprised. Points! Means progress! Full stop of the discussion right there. Dont bother to pull back the layers and look at who the points were against.

Its the same bullshit as the ones pointing to Goal Differential as some accomplishment, ignoring how they got to those numbers.

Chytil could have 20 empty net goals and you would probably still be saying BUT PrOgReSs !! Look at the numbers! The Pace!!!

 

[JHS]

You lost me after the bolded. But if you don't think there's a difference in how certain coaches handle younger players, you're mistaken. The rest of your post is a whole bunch of speculation. Sounds nice and all but it feels like you wrote a wish list of the ideal coach. But I do wonder how much influence guys like Ovechkin, Backstromn, and Carlson had on the winning culture and being tough to play against.

Wait- you can't spin it both ways-- if the coach dictates the culture the players can't get the credit and if you are trying to say that the coach talks to players differently when they are young are you then suggesting that coaches with young players can't expect those players to contribute to the tough to play against culture? Either the coach promotes that identity and the players buy in or, if we are to agree with you, the players all already have that and the coach just stands behind the bench. So in your case, what then has to happen for a team to develop that tough to play against culture if its not the coach? Does this just magically cultivate itself even if none of the players are experienced enough to have it? Also, do you think its the ultimate coincidence that the Islanders also have that exact same approach? My entire point here is Trotz would have been a better hire because his teams display that approach consistently and the only consistent part is him!

I believe my "wish list" as you describe it is a universally accepted and fair review of Trotz track record. If that means I wish the Rangers would have hired him over Quinn then so be it!