Player Discussion David Quinn: Part V

[Barnaby]

When you are calling Gaborik a stud it is time to lock this thread.

Why? The guy was just about a PPG payer here. 229 points in 255 games. What's your definition of a stud?

 

[True Blue]

Every time the Rangers play a playoff type game the last two years they get destroyed. I can't remember hating a coach more than Quinn. He's a maybe slightly better than Ben McAdoo. Meanwhile Ben McAdoo had his team 11-5 one year. Quinn is a f***ing embarrassment. The worst move by a mile by Gorton. I'd rather have f***ing AV.

Just curious. Did you say the same thing when the Rangers took three out of 4 points against the same Isles team? Or did that not meet your criteria? What about the Caps come back? I guess when you are the sole arbitrer of what you decide is or isn't a playoff game, you can make such statements.

 

[Kodiak]

At this point defending David Quinn you might as well say that the earth is flat. Can someone point to one accomplishment he has had?

I am just listing some positive takeaways from this season. I am not getting into a discussion about whether Quinn deserves credit or not.

• The team was in the playoff hunt up until the last 10 games of the season despite our 1C disappearing for most of the season, our best winger taking a LOA under strange circumstances, and a number of other unprecedented distractions
• Team GAA improved from 23rd to 11th (probably in the top 10 prior to last night)
• Fox improving to a Norris-calibre defenseman
• Miller looking like a top 4 defenseman despite being very young and extremely raw
• Lindgren improving to the point he looks like a long-term piece and not a placeholder
• Shesterkin looking like a legitimate #1 goalie
• Buchnevich improving from inconsistent 2nd liner to top line player with a great 2-way game
• Kakko's overall improvement in play, even if it has not translated to points yet
• Chytil producing at a 40+ point pace

 

[True Blue]

The Islanders went from their own David Quinn to Trotz and jumped from last in the league to first in goals against.

What an incredibly stupid take.

 

[TheDirtyH]

What did Sam and joe say we were when trailing heading into the third? 1-12?

pretty pathetic and telling that we can be shut down too easily. And when we’re trailing whose minutes consistently go up and whose go down?

if it’s not Quinn, it’s the star players. Personally I think it’s both

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

But by the time Trotz was hired by the Islanders he had achieved all the things he needed to to show he was a better option than some Boston based college coach.

Why was he a better option? It took him 11 years to build a team that could win a series. He walked into a loaded Caps team that may have underachieved was primed to win and then came to a Islander veteran Islander team,

 

[True Blue]

The FO seems to think that Quinn is doing the job and the team is where it reasonable should be (or are they secretly saboteurs who really want to see this whole thing fail—diabolical!) The playoffs where never a guarantee. When did that become the standard?

All three of Quinn, JD & Gorton are secretly NY haters who want to bring the franchise down.

What have we learned? Quinn's biggest problem is that he does not allow continuity and breaks lines apart while sticking with what works and not trying anything new.

The real funny thing is that as soon as the last game is played, the anti-Quinn crowd will instantly start the treads about his replacement and who it is going to be. In a few months, the threads will become "What is Gorton waiting for?". That will be followed with "Are they just gonna hand the job to Knoblauch at camp?". Which will turn into "I cannot believe that Quinn is still coaching this team by the puck drop on the season opener.

 

[Barnaby]

At this point defending David Quinn you might as well say that the earth is flat. Can someone point to one accomplishment he has had?

Quinn was hired as a developmental coach. I think he's mostly done a good job with that. Miller, Fox, ADA, Buchnevich, Kakko has shown improvement although he's not there yet. Lafreniere is in his rookie season, but I expect him to improve. Strome came over and has had nothing but career season's despite it being minimized every year. Some of that you can attribute to Panarin, but he's certainly improved considerably. There are some things that I'm not a fan of. I'd like to see the forward lines spread out the kids line. I'd like to see the kids get some PP or at least get rewarded with it when they are playing well. I don't get the obsession with Howden who is a fringe NHLer at best and hasn't improved. I don't like that this team has come up short in their biggest games. I could live with losing the Islander or play in games at this point, but the effort wasn't there and they just looked out coached. I always believed that when this team started hitting its stride they'd opt for a veteran coach with playoff experience. I would expect that to be after next season although if it was up to me, I'd make that move this offseason. Overall, I think he's mostly done what he was brought in for, but I'd opt for a change if they think the right coach is out there. To be honest, I thought going into this season that playoffs were the goal, but the realistic expectation was to be pretty much where they are now: playing meaningful games in April, but coming up short.

If there's one thing I've learned from Ranger hockey it's that fans seldom like the coach. AV took this team to a cup final and was talked about like he was an abomination (although granted, he wasn't my favorite), Torts had the most sustained success for the NYR'S since the early-mid 90's and he got to a point where he was constantly complained about. Renney was the first coach that got back into the playoffs if my memory serves and he was dismissed and not really appreciated. Every coach either doesn't change the lines often enough and can't adapt or changes the lines too often so players can't build chemistry.

If it were up to me I'd say thanks and start looking for the right coach to take the next step, but I wouldn't call DQ an abomination either.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

Let’s also not forget that Trotz was hired the exact same year as Quinn and could have been the Rangers coach if the front office did not rush to hire a coach no other organization could even pick out of a police lineup before the season ended. A deplorable decision by management.

Is Trotz known for being a coach to start a rebuild or develop/mentor young players into being professionals?

Trotz would be the hire after a guy like Quinn. Don't you think there was a specific reason the Rangers went to College route for a coach? They wanted someone with experience dealing with the growing pains of 18-22 year olds.

College coaches fail because they are usually brought in to coach men and have a hard time adapting that mentality of treating them appropriately. Quinn was brought in to coach the youngest team in the league. Do you think the Trotz/Lavliolette/Q's of the world want to deal with that? I'm sure many coaches looked at Toronto/Babcock situation and would quickly steer clear of Big Market rebuild.

Not all coaching hires = Stanley Cup intent. As much as it is easy to say "well everyone's goal is the win the Stanley Cup" in training camp, unrealistic goals will end in failure. This team took a huge leap forward that was faster than expected. They regressed closer to the norm of what a young team looks like earlier in the year and found their stride. Putting it all together consistently is the process every team that is building towards being a contender goes through. Teams like Vegas that turn into contenders overnight are abnormalities. The Tampas, Washingtons, heck even the Pittsburghs of the world have all gone through growing pains before they became legitimate perennial contenders.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Huge Quinn hater but I give him credit for Buchnevich.

Fox I don’t. Lindgren I will give him although that could be Ruff.

But... thats just not enough to justify everything else he is inept and lacking as a coach for at this level.

Why do you give him no credit for Fox? Because Harvard consistently churns out Norris-caliber defenseman?

And Lindgren is because of Ruff.

This is the refuse I have pointed to in other posts....

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

All three of Quinn, JD & Gorton are secretly NY haters who want to bring the franchise down.

What have we learned? Quinn's biggest problem is that he does not allow continuity and breaks lines apart while sticking with what works and not trying anything new.

The real funny thing is that as soon as the last game is played, the anti-Quinn crowd will instantly start the treads about his replacement and who it is going to be. In a few months, the threads will become "What is Gorton waiting for?". That will be followed with "Are they just gonna hand the job to Knoblauch at camp?". Which will turn into "I cannot believe that Quinn is still coaching this team by the puck drop on the season opener.

Or this is the other option.

 

[True Blue]

The bold is the key. People are disappointed in the production of Lafreniere and Kakko and Quinn is the scapegoat for that. Once the decision has been made that they don't like Quinn, it goes downhill from there, and all negatives are Quinn's fault and all positives are in spite of him.

Quinn has done some good and some bad like any other coach. I don't think he necessarily needs to go, but if the front office decided it was time to move on, I wouldn't be upset by it.

But as a "Quinn Bro" (I guess), I will say this: the playoff chase is over. Play the damn kids.

Can anyone imagine if Quinn was to do and say what Trotz did regarding Dobson and Wahlstrom? Not dressing them because they are not ready for such pressure? This thread would meltdown by itself.

 

[SA16]

Is there any chance that if Quinn is fired they would finally give Messier a chance? He could really help develop Lafreniere and Fox into the next leadership core of the team.

 

[True Blue]

We have literally no idea what Jones looks like against this competition. Quinn isnt great imo or even that good but I’d trust his opinion on Jones’ readiness seeing him practice regularly, especially given the level he was just playing at. It’s entirely possible that he’d look worse

Also, didn't Jones himself say that he was going to go back to college because he felt that his game was not ready?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Like I said, guess you missed Ron Low, Bryan Trottier, Glen Sather, John Muckler, Michel Bergeron and Ted Sator.

Now you go...

Like I said, EASILY my most hated Rangers coach of all time.

Now you go...

 

[Barnaby]

Why was he a better option? It took him 11 years to build a team that could win a series. He walked into a loaded Caps team that may have underachieved was primed to win and then came to a Islander veteran Islander team,

Grass is always greener. Is he a better coach today? Probably, but with this fanbase everyone would bitch that they were too boring and/or didn't let the skill guys play their games. The first year they came up short in the playoffs it would be back to the Torts era complaints.

 

[True Blue]

At this point defending David Quinn you might as well say that the earth is flat. Can someone point to one accomplishment he has had?

Overachieiving in two seasons with the youngest team in the league, in what is the toughest division in the league. You DO realize that this team is in the playoffs in any other division, right? Or did that somehow escape your ravings?

 

[Barnaby]

It's this kind of post that get me truly miffed.

Is Quinn a poor coach? No.

Is Quinn the second coming of Scotty Bowman? No.

But some need to deal in absolutes.

And as a member of the purported "Quinnbros", I will say this: I like Quinn but certainly genuinely impressed with his coaching. But by and large that has been the same for the majority of the Rangers' coaches. And I won't pretend as if I know better than the person who is paid to coach.

What I have an issue with is a very pervasive simplistic mindset that:

1) Quinn has no idea what he's doing
and
2) That merely replacing Quinn with any other coach would have this team its different position than it currently is.
and
3) The inability or desire to accept that there have been other circumstances over the past 13 months that add to the challenge of developing a team.

The FO seems to think that Quinn is doing the job and the team is where it reasonable should be (or are they secretly saboteurs who really want to see this whole thing fail—diabolical!) The playoffs where never a guarantee. When did that become the standard?

There's also seems to be a need to deal in absolutes:

Any success the team has is, in some way, in spite of Quinn

Every flaw is definitively his fault.

Kakko and Lafreniere may not be wre we would want them to be, so they're being ruined.

I also have to wonder how many really lived through the dark years: when the Rangers had a pervading country club culture, the organization had the highest payroll in the league and still missed the playoffs and had no prospect pool to speak of. After that era, this one has been a pleasure.

That pretty much nails it for me. I think there's a middle ground to the conversation. He's not a disaster, but he's also not likely to be in the hall of fame any time soon. This just seems to be the cycle that we go through with every coach after about 3-4 years. AV sucked. Torts sucked. Renney sucked... now Quinn sucks...

I'll restate that he isn't my favorite coach by any stretch, but the one thing I will say to his credit is that this is pretty much where we all pegged the team to be this year, but now are shocked that it's happening.

 

[True Blue]

That pretty much nails it for me. I think there's a middle ground to the conversation. He's not a disaster, but he's also not likely to be in the hall of fame any time soon. This just seems to be the cycle that we go through with every coach after about 3-4 years. AV sucked. Torts sucked. Renney sucked... now Quinn sucks...

I'll restate that he isn't my favorite coach by any stretch, but the one thing I will say to his credit is that this is pretty much where we all pegged the team to be this year, but now are shocked that it's happening.

Like I said, the people that are yelling for Trotz would absolutely melt down (I should say even more so) if Quinn was developing prospects the same way. By scratching them from games because they cannot handle the pressure.

 

[RGY]

Why do you give him no credit for Fox? Because Harvard consistently churns out Norris-caliber defenseman?

And Lindgren is because of Ruff.

This is the refuse I have pointed to in other posts....

I said Lindgren could* be because of Ruff. Did not say that was definite one way or the other. But if it makes the QA’s happy then sure lets give him Buch and Lindgren.

Fox. I think Fox was in a way destined to be where he is now with his talent and ability. He has been playing this way really since day 1. But I guess if you want to say ‘Man Quinn really did wonders in that first training camp last year that really allowed him to take off’ then sure I guess Quinn was a Magician.

Buch, TDA, and Lindgren. 3 players. Fox for the ones who just want give DQ the credit. But to me its 3 players. Great. It doesn’t outweigh everything else I mentioned in that post that leads to extreme disappointment with how this team is managed and coached on a nightly basis.

 

[True Blue]

Fox. I think Fox was in a way destined to be where he is now with his talent and ability. He has been playing this way really since day 1.

It was so clear that Fox was destined for this that he was not drafted until the third round. It was so clear that Fox was destined for this that he was traded for a pair of 2nd round picks. Hardly the bounty one would think would be collected from a destined Norris trophy candidate.

It was so clear that Fox was destined for this that he has absolutely made no improvements in his game since his first game. He was just always on this level.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Grass is always greener. Is he a better coach today? Probably, but with this fanbase everyone would bitch that they were too boring and/or didn't let the skill guys play their games. The first year they came up short in the playoffs it would be back to the Torts era complaints.

It's not even a question of whether or not he's a better coach today. It's whether or not he would be a better coach FOR THIS TEAM today.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I said Lindgren could* be because of Ruff. Did not say that was definite one way or the other. But if it makes the QA’s happy then sure lets give him Buch and Lindgren.

I stand corrected. And humbled.

Fox. I think Fox was in a way destined to be where he is now with his talent and ability. He has been playing this way really since day 1. But I guess if you want to say ‘Man Quinn really did wonders in that first training camp last year that really allowed him to take off’ then sure I guess Quinn was a Magician.

There have been an infinite number of players who have come into the league with talent and ability. I guess what they lacked was destiny.

 

[tomobson]

It was so clear that Fox was destined for this that he was not drafted until the third round. It was so clear that Fox was destined for this that he was traded for a pair of 2nd round picks. Hardly the bounty one would think would be collected from a destined Norris trophy candidate.

It was so clear that Fox was destined for this that he has absolutely made no improvements in his game since his first game. He was just always on this level.

This is an idiotic take. Fox isn't the first and won't be the last 3rd rounder that develops into an elite player. He's also 23 and we all know about the loophole he took advantage of to force his way here so I'm not sure why you even bother to bring that up.

Anyways. There is a good chance the veteran core we have in place this season will mostly be gone next season. We can't afford to self rent zib, buch, and strome and their values are pretty high right now. Will management continue to be fine with quinn riding the vets or do we think they want to start getting the kids more experience so they have a better idea on what they need to focus this off-season?

 

[Number 9]

I am just listing some positive takeaways from this season. I am not getting into a discussion about whether Quinn deserves credit or not.

• The team was in the playoff hunt up until the last 10 games of the season despite our 1C disappearing for most of the season, our best winger taking a LOA under strange circumstances, and a number of other unprecedented distractions
• Team GAA improved from 23rd to 11th (probably in the top 10 prior to last night)
• Fox improving to a Norris-calibre defenseman
• Miller looking like a top 4 defenseman despite being very young and extremely raw
• Lindgren improving to the point he looks like a long-term piece and not a placeholder
• Shesterkin looking like a legitimate #1 goalie
• Buchnevich improving from inconsistent 2nd liner to top line player with a great 2-way game
• Kakko's overall improvement in play, even if it has not translated to points yet
• Chytil producing at a 40+ point pace

Good points, but the team is good on paper bunch of first round picks with panarin, fox I feel like they should be so much better. I wonder what they would be doing with a better coach.