Player Discussion David Quinn: Part V

[bleedblue94]

No, because I'm saying that this isn't a problem in need of an active solution that's any different than what's already happening. Let me put it another way. I don't think the vets aren't "stepping up as part of the solution"... I think the effect of them doing so is limited by the nature of the entire roster. Yes, there are times where they're not consistent in "stepping up as part of the solution," like right now with Kreider or in the early part of the season with Strome. My point though, is that even with the vets "stepping up as part of the solution," we still see the same inconsistencies. Things could be way worse with a team this young.

Thanks for quoting "stepping up as part of the solution" multiple times, but when you make a comment that says "You can have vets with experience (and really, our only one with a significant level of that is Kreider)" (and I will only quote it once bc we dont need dramatics here) I think that is a little off and giving them a pass considering you have soon to be 28 year old zib, 29 year old panarin, 27 year old trouba, along with your soon to be 30 year old kreider as the team leaders along with a bunch of younger players that have pro and nhl experience (read not rookies). There really is no acceptable reasoning for the consistent sluggish starts, my comment was specific to the inconsistency associated to those lackluster starts to games, not play in general.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Renney.....Torsts......AV have had a goalie at the end of his career? Or a dumpster fire that was the defense for most of last year? Or a team that is the youngest several years running? All of them had that? All of them had teams that lacked the experience that this team overall does? Really?

You have some elite skaters and you have some very promising players, but you have no defensive play like those teams and no overall set roster construction like the did.

And wait. AV took a team that was far worse than this to the playoffs? Really? Which one?

If you are going to equate scoring with success by pointing out last year, I will note that you very conveniently are leaving out that last year's team missed the playoffs. So by your sound logic, this years team is exactly where they should be.

They all had to deal with enough. This team is young, but their top 6 isn't. Fox and Lindgren play above their age. This team is 10th in the league in goals against with Shesterkin starting half the games. Their defense is fine.

That 2016-2017 team overachieved, they weren't good. Look at that D for example. The 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 teams were better than this one but weren't "SC Final" and "Presidents' trophy/ECF" good.

I'm only comparing this team to last year's team because you kept bringing up what this team is missing and saying it doesn't offset that team. And the reason everyone thought this team was missing the playoffs this year was the defense that is 10th in the league this year. The defense is fine.

 

[True Blue]

They all had to deal with enough. This team is young, but their top 6 isn't. Fox and Lindgren play above their age. This team is 10th in the league in goals against with Shesterkin starting half the games. Their defense is fine.

Like it or now, youngest in the league is still youngest in the league. And those teams seldom make the playoffs.

That 2016-2017 team overachieved, they weren't good. Look at that D for example. The 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 teams were better than this one but weren't "SC Final" and "Presidents' trophy/ECF" good.

Fantastic. That does not change the fact that both last years and this years completely overachieved.

I'm only comparing this team to last year's team because you kept bringing up what this team is missing and saying it doesn't offset that team. And the reason everyone thought this team was missing the playoffs this year was the defense that is 10th in the league this year. The defense is fine.

Last year the defense was a dumpster fire. This year, they have largely been better but the overall defensive play of the team has not.

And none of that changes the fact that last year, Panarin, DeAngelo and ZBad were all having career years. This year, the story is quite a bit different.

The reason that most people thought that this was a bubble team had a lot more do with than simply the defensemen.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Like it or now, youngest in the league is still youngest in the league. And those teams seldom make the playoffs.

Fantastic. That does not change the fact that both last years and this years completely overachieved.

Last year the defense was a dumpster fire. This year, they have largely been better but the overall defensive play of the team has not.

And none of that changes the fact that last year, Panarin, DeAngelo and ZBad were all having career years. This year, the story is quite a bit different.

The reason that most people thought that this was a bubble team had a lot more do with than simply the defensemen.

It's exhausting arguing with you because you're the ultimate contrarian. You just argue the opposite of every stance. My favorite is "they have largely been better but overall defensive play of the team has not". That's nonsensical statement that you're using to win an argument. I'll leave you alone in arguing with everyone no matter what anyone says. This team's high end talent is higher than any team since 2005-2006 Jagr. They also have one of the better goalies in the league and a top 10 defense that would possibly be top 5 if our goalie didn't get hurt and randomly split more games than needed. Almost all of those teams made the playoffs made the playoffs. It's absolutely COMICAL to suggest this team has overachieved. And you're just trying to be a contrarian and I'll stop obliging.

 

[tomobson]

I think Quinn has been increased and improved since the Knoblauch takeover. Quinn watching him have success without the constant line changes has been beneficial for Quinn because he was at a really bad point before that and I feel he was dangerously close to losing the team. There was one game right before he went down with covid where the team came out playing alright for once but halfway into the first he went and butchered every single line and the team collapsed right after all the line changes. That was one game where I visibly saw the team just give up on him. Still, the only way I see Quinn around next year is if the better coaches available are just not willing to coach here. Maybe the team is too young for them or they don't want to deal with a big city like NYC with all the covid stuff going on. At the end of the day, almost any coach available can do better than Quinn. The Quinn hire is one of those examples when the NYR organization felt like they were smartest ppl in the NHL...they were/are not.

 

[True Blue]

It's exhausting arguing with you because you're the ultimate contrarian. You just argue the opposite of every stance.

No, I am arguing against what I perceive to be a foolish belief.

My favorite is "they have largely been better but overall defensive play of the team has not".

It means that the defenseman have played better but the overall team defensive aspect is lacking. I did not think that needed a detailed explanations.

This team's high end talent is higher than any team since 2005-2006 Jagr.

What percentage of the season did the high end talent like ZBad play like high end talent? What percentage of the season did the high end talent like Panarin was not dressing for games?

They also have one of the better goalies in the league and a top 10 defense that would possibly be top 5 if our goalie didn't get hurt and randomly split more games than needed.

Having a top-10 PK is not the same as having a top-10 overall defense.

What percentage of the did the starting goalie that you are lauding miss? And how many games did a third string goalie start?

While you are at it, what percent of the season did one of the team's top defensemen miss along with one if it's three top centers? For that matter, what percent of the season has the team spent without is most offensively dynamic defenseman?

Almost all of those teams made the playoffs made the playoffs. It's absolutely COMICAL to suggest this team has overachieved. And you're just trying to be a contrarian and I'll stop obliging.

What is comical is you pretending that crazy circumstances did not happen and continue to peck away on what should by looking at items with blinders on.

 

[kovazub94]

In a way, when you consider the expectations of the team combined with the individual expectations, we actually are overachieving.

I'd wait to make this conclusion until after the season whenever it will be, or at least until we're about to face Boston to conclude the season.

The next 9 games are of key importance and it doesn't feel like they will but I just want to see if they don't lay an egg in this stretch against the teams they should prevail to the tune of at least 6-2-1 record. Something like 7-1-1 would be wonderful!

 

[Tawnos]

Thanks for quoting "stepping up as part of the solution" multiple times, but when you make a comment that says "You can have vets with experience (and really, our only one with a significant level of that is Kreider)" (and I will only quote it once bc we dont need dramatics here) I think that is a little off and giving them a pass considering you have soon to be 28 year old zib, 29 year old panarin, 27 year old trouba, along with your soon to be 30 year old kreider as the team leaders along with a bunch of younger players that have pro and nhl experience (read not rookies). There really is no acceptable reasoning for the consistent sluggish starts, my comment was specific to the inconsistency associated to those lackluster starts to games, not play in general.

Those guys haven't been part of many really successful teams. Panarin has been out of the first round once, never past the 2nd round, and played on a really good regular season team once. Zibanejad has been out of the first round twice and never been on a really good regular season team. Trouba was on a really good team one year that made it to the WCF, and the rest has been mediocrity or worse.

Kreider has experienced a lot more team success in the NHL than those other guys. It's not a dig at them, but I don't really consider most of our vets to be experienced in a way that could make up for the the youthful inconsistency.

There's no difference between the inconsistency in the starts and the inconsistency in the play in general.

 

[Tawnos]

I'd wait to make this conclusion until after the season whenever it will be, or at least until we're about to face Boston to conclude the season.

The next 9 games are of key importance and it doesn't feel like they will but I just want to see if they don't lay an egg in this stretch against the teams they should prevail to the tune of at least 6-2-1 record. Something like 7-1-1 would be wonderful!

I really only meant up to this point.

 

[kovazub94]

I really only meant up to this point.

I hear you but my expectations prior to the season were higher than the majority as I expected them to make the playoffs. Obviously it always should be implied that injuries can’t be anticipated and in this context I used to specifically mention Shesterkin and either Zibanejad or Panarin. Well, all three of these happened and honestly my grade would be “inconclusive” at this point with an exception that they have done well in the face of adversity.

Now the team is really coming together and it feels just like a year ago when they started this run in February through the stop of the season (remember Buchnevich’s front of the net goal against Colorado from a setup from Panarin?). I do want to see them getting at least 6 wins and 13 points in these games which could makeup most, if not all, the difference vs Boston to that point. Then it should be a playoff like 6 game / 3 opponents set to finish the season and let the chips fall.

 

[bleedblue94]

Those guys haven't been part of many really successful teams. Panarin has been out of the first round once, never past the 2nd round, and played on a really good regular season team once. Zibanejad has been out of the first round twice and never been on a really good regular season team. Trouba was on a really good team one year that made it to the WCF, and the rest has been mediocrity or worse.

Kreider has experienced a lot more team success in the NHL than those other guys. It's not a dig at them, but I don't really consider most of our vets to be experienced in a way that could make up for the the youthful inconsistency.

There's no difference between the inconsistency in the starts and the inconsistency in the play in general.

I read a bunch of excuses for experienced professionals to be prepared for games. I'm not talking inconsistency of effectiveness, I'm talking about inconsistency of effort. Immature teams may struggle with the momentum shifts throughout a game, but that is completely different than being ready to give effort at the drop of the opening puck. That's what I am talking about. So to your last point to me to me they can be very different things.

 

[chosen]

Those guys haven't been part of many really successful teams. Panarin has been out of the first round once, never past the 2nd round, and played on a really good regular season team once. Zibanejad has been out of the first round twice and never been on a really good regular season team. Trouba was on a really good team one year that made it to the WCF, and the rest has been mediocrity or worse.

Kreider has experienced a lot more team success in the NHL than those other guys. It's not a dig at them, but I don't really consider most of our vets to be experienced in a way that could make up for the the youthful inconsistency.

There's no difference between the inconsistency in the starts and the inconsistency in the play in general.

Panarin was the best player on the ice in most of the playoff games he's been in. He led Columbus to a sweep of Cup favorite Tampa. In a series where Columbus lost in 7 to Washington, he was the best player on the ice, by far. One player can't bring Cups by himself. Edmonton has two awersome players and can't win a thing.

I honestly believe that Panarin is a very underrated player.

 

[Adam Fox Time]

I just hope Quinn gets fired if the Rangers miss the playoffs.

 

[kovazub94]

I just hope Quinn gets fired if the Rangers miss the playoffs.

Why, what did he do?

 

[Adam Fox Time]

Why, what did he do?

Well there's the entire first half/three quarters of the season when the Rangers were constantly having letdown games and underperforming in general. I mean people have given plenty of reasons why Quinn should be fired.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I just hope Quinn gets fired if the Rangers miss the playoffs.

Keep holding your breath.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Why, what did he do?

What did he do to deserve to stay? This is a results league.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

What did he do to deserve to stay? This is a results league.

So every year, every said coach, save one, should lose his job...

 

[SnowblindNYR]

So every year, every said coach, save one, should lose his job...

Did I say anything of the sort? This is a complete strawman. A coach whose team underperformed deserves to lose his job, maybe if they underperform two years in a row, but last year that team would have likely missed the playoffs and got swept in the play in round, only team to accomplish that feat in the league. This year, despite having elite or borderline elite players at every level the guy will miss the playoffs most likely, that's an underperformance if I've ever seen one. Honestly, I know people will be all acchually about it, but this team has underperformed, standings wise more so than any team since the 2004-2005 lockout.

 

[mulli25]

I love how the youngest team in the league:
- overcame Houdini level disappearing acts from their major stars for large chunks of the season
- is now getting meaningful contributions from the kids
- exceeded everyone’s wildest expectations with their young defenseman
- taken major steps forward team defense and penalty killing
- is pushing for the playoffs in a very competitive division

...and the narrative is we need to “fire this coach”

I have my beefs with Quinn, but Christ, we need some perspective around here. If this run started a little earlier there’s a decent chance he’d be in the Jack Adams conversation.

 

[aufheben]

Did I say anything of the sort? This is a complete strawman. A coach whose team underperformed deserves to lose his job, maybe if they underperform two years in a row, but last year that team would have likely missed the playoffs and got swept in the play in round, only team to accomplish that feat in the league. This year, despite having elite or borderline elite players at every level the guy will miss the playoffs most likely, that's an underperformance if I've ever seen one. Honestly, I know people will be all acchually about it, but this team has underperformed, standings wise more so than any team since the 2004-2005 lockout.

Acchually...

Top-5 G+/-
Top-10 GF
Top-10 GA
Top-5 PK

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Top-5 G+/-
Top-10 GF
Top-10 GA
Top-5 PK

So I'll freely admit that not giving him credit for those stats is equally as egregious as not caring about playoff positioning, but the fact that the team can do all that and still be on the outside looking in is not a bad look for him. He's in part a victim of his own success.

BTW, our PP is finally in the top half of the league at #15 overall.

 

[SA16]

So I'll freely admit that not giving him credit for those stats is equally as egregious as not caring about playoff positioning, but the fact that the team can do all that and still be on the outside looking in is not a bad look for him. He's in part a victim of his own success.

BTW, our PP is finally in the top half of the league at #15 overall.

Ok but where does the PP rank if you remove the games where the team scored a lot of goals because the PP was good?

 

[kovazub94]

Well there's the entire first half/three quarters of the season when the Rangers were constantly having letdown games and underperforming in general. I mean people have given plenty of reasons why Quinn should be fired.

Overwhelmingly bullshit reasons but why should this matter, right?

 

[kovazub94]

What did he do to deserve to stay? This is a results league.

Oh, like 30 other coaches who didn’t win the Cup? Cause it’s “results league”?