Reading just this page, one would never know who won
Player Discussion David Quinn: Part IV
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Isn't it simply just to keep drivel like this in the Lafreniere thread? Making the same post over and over again in multiple threads does not bring one any closer to reality.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
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a cute skills competition win against half a NHL team last night shouldn't really move the needle in either direction.
There were still sooooo many things not to like via Quinn last night though. He is clueless and keeps running back to default mode when the chips are down despite the fact that it hasn't even come close to working this year. He's the scarecrow, tin man and lion wrapped up in one.
There were still sooooo many things not to like via Quinn last night though. He is clueless and keeps running back to default mode when the chips are down despite the fact that it hasn't even come close to working this year. He's the scarecrow, tin man and lion wrapped up in one.
Let's forget that the player who has been the team's best center & two of their top-4 defensemen were out. And the started their backup goalie. But yeah, half an NHL team.
It has arrived at the point that even wins are now being rationalized as losses just so they can be blamed on Quinn?
They underperformed against a team that hadn't played in 11 days and was missing their all of their best players. How many of our best players weren't dressed for this one? Looks to me like most of them played.
Chytil has missed most of the season, funny how this only gets thrown onto the list of excuses for Quinn when the team woefully underperforms against what was really a glorified AHL squad.
I know that this is probably seen as vindication for some of the QA's, but a skills competition win against this version of the Flyers is nothing to get excited about, especially when they had the opportunity to win it in OT (And ROW's do matter) on the PP and his dumb ass throws the default unit out there (and really, they should have smoked this team in regulation.)
Are we also going to ignore how putting Zibanejad out there 3v3 cost them vs Pittsburgh (DeAngelo game) and nearly cost them last night? That well is bone dry right now yet he keeps on going to it. He can't be bothered to give anyone else an opportunity though, because this is Quinning hockey.
If one wants to call what Mika and Krieder did playing, then sure
And like it or not, Chytil has been their best center. And yes, he has been hurt and the team needs him. Are you denying this?
You are fired up and get upset when they outplay their opponents but are beaten by either subpar goaltending or poor puck luck. And now you are equally as offended by the thought that they won. Something seems amiss
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- Sep 8, 2008
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At this point even though I believe it would be a honey-moon period with any different coach, I'd probably take it.
The problem being as I see it any established rerun coach is going to want certain types of players, and by the time management can get whoever the coach wants on the team it's basically time for a new coach again.
In a way I don't think Rangers management is pandering to what Quinn may want on his roster, which is a good thing. I would fear much like we saw with the Rangers just getting an assistance coach in Martin, they also end up getting Jack Johnson, just on a bigger scale.
The problem being as I see it any established rerun coach is going to want certain types of players, and by the time management can get whoever the coach wants on the team it's basically time for a new coach again.
In a way I don't think Rangers management is pandering to what Quinn may want on his roster, which is a good thing. I would fear much like we saw with the Rangers just getting an assistance coach in Martin, they also end up getting Jack Johnson, just on a bigger scale.
I am pretty sure that Quinn, Gorton & JD are in lockstep about who is on the roster and how they want it to be constructed in the future. There is nothing that makes even a peep about Quinn wanting something that Gorton and JD are not letting him have.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
No, that lost if's flavor a long time ago. Like trying to eat 2 week old stew at this point.
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So they all wanted Jack Johnson?
If so I think we may have identified a bigger issue.
No. They took a flyer on a player that their new assistant head coach recommended. Not really a bigger issue.
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I can agree that is probably what happened, yet my point above, any new coach will come with his roster ideals/ideas too.
In my opinion it's a good thing if management ignores those ideals/ideas.
Therefor my original post which you took a snippet from, was about how while I don't really care for Quinn, I think it may be better off to just keep him as management does not seem to be taking ideas in terms of roster building from him, and if they did get an established rerun coach that would probably change.
- Jan 18, 2012
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Then why are they getting 20 minutes? You can't have it both ways. If the vets are sucking, why are they continually thrown out there? Who's fault is that? You can't then use the vets sucking as an excuse for Quinn.
And yes, Rooney is the better choice. At this point ANYONE is a better choice than Zibanejad. He has 1 empty net assist since he last scored, 12 games ago.... how much worse can it get?
edit- At the least, cut their PP time
Coaches giving vets a longer rope is not a new thing. Do I love it? No. But that is pretty much the way of the league.
Ok, slide in Rooney and Howden for the top-2 spots and let's see how that goes.
I am not sure that the rerun is the answer.
There is most assuredly going to be a new coach. One day. I do not think that said coach is available right now. But that is not why I believe that they have not moved on from Quinn. That does not change that he is not going to be the coach when the team is firmly in their window.
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I don't even mind if he is the coach.
I think I have been lumped in with other peoples opinions.
I am more in the camp that thinks the roster defines the coach more so than the other way around, at least generally.
I don't think Quinn is a good coach, nor AV or Torts, I don't even think Keenan was a good coach.
To me, again generally there are only a couple different varieties of coaches. Players coaches, tough ass coaches. Then from there defensive minded, offensive minded and somewhere in the middle. Yet all of them have different roster ideas and generally it's the roster that management builds that outlasts the coach. So I have no idea why management would ever build a team towards what coaching wants or does not. It's far easier to just get another coach than it is to move around players.
- Jan 18, 2012
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Rooney can and should definitely get at least 2-3 more evenstrength shifts a game. On the Powerplay Zibs does not deserve the time he's getting and the 'setups'.
Using last game as the example if you cut his PP time in half and take away 2 es shifts. He ends up with around 16 minutes. no where near the false strawman you've created. Have Kakko, KAM, Laf, Buch and/or even Blackwell replace Zibs on PP1. There needs to be a major shake up.
As I stated other places, I'd even move Blackwell to center and Howden to wing.
- Jan 18, 2012
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Any chance Oliver or Brown get replaced? Whoever is in charge of the PP, puck support, transition, zone entry and the overall offensive game plan.
I thought I saw/heard Brown come down to the bench last game. I don't remember ever seeing that.
I thought I saw/heard Brown come down to the bench last game. I don't remember ever seeing that.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
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Coaches don't fall into the cap and there is no coaches' union. They can be swept under the carpet, just keep paying them not to coach the team. No fiscal gymnastics with the cap. I don't think Quinn is a dumb man no less a hockey professor. It's not his fault his players take offensive zone penalties and penalties on 5 on 3 power plays or refuse to play a grittier game between the dots or move the puck noticeably slower than other teams and versus last year's squad. You heard Joe last night keep saying Quinn reminded people to stop at the net, not skate by it. This was a thing in the AV era too. So is it the coach or the players or some combination? Maybe the players here are not as smart to listen, or have tuned him out for some other reason, or carry bad habits in their play. Obviously there have been questionable decisions that squarely fall on him. But ultimately he will take the fall.
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The replacement clock starts to tick for all coaches the second that they get hired. Most competent organizations hire a coach who they view to be the right coach at the right time. They are brought in with a specific directive. Which is I believe where Gorton & JD view Quinn.
He is not getting fired in the midst of the season. And, unless the wheels completely fall off the bus will probably be back next year, much to the vehement anger of the anti-Quinn/Gorton brigade. I think that my view of his length of rope is summed up as follows. Do I think that he is here next year? Probably. Do I think that he is here the year after that? Possibly. Do I think that he is here in 3 years? No. And that is when this team will be/should be truly entering their window as legit Cup contender. At that point in time, there will be a new right coach at the right time brought in. And a month in, people will be howling about how dare he allocate time to player X and not player Y.
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In the same vein, they could have 10 coaches in the next 5 years for all I care as long as management has an overall roster plan.
The vet players are what they are for the most part. Sure Zbad has been worse, yet I think Kreider, Strome, Buch and others were more passengers to Panarin and Zbad than they in their own right could ever be counted on to drive the play.
Management is where my concern comes in way more than coaching. Not only do they pick the coaches, they pick the players and their contracts.
Rangers in my twisted view have always been managed by the seat of their pants. If they had cap space they used it. If they had a bunch they were going to use a bunch. If not, they were limited and we get Rooney or whatever. If a UFA wanted to play for them, and they had space, poof he gets a big contract.
If they were in/near playoff position at the deadline they extended, rented, self rented, even added.
If they were out of the playoffs they sold.
I'm not even sure any rebuild letter goes out if that team is in playoff position at that time.
I hope I am totally out to lunch in that opinion, yet that is just how their actions and moves have looked to me in spite of their words.
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WojtekWolski86
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- Nov 14, 2019
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People like to nitpick on Quinn and blame him for everything under the moon.
In reality the biggest gripes are:
1. PP personnel which is the definition of insanity. Can we stop rolling out 4 RH shots and the only lefty just camps in front of the net? Zero movement, slow deliberate passing, and the only shot read is a guy who hasn't hit a one timer effectively in over a year. Even the 4 on 3 was 3 RH shots with Kreider camping in front of the net. That had to be the easiest OT PK I have ever seen. They simply relied on Panarin to somehow shoot it through Hart.
2. We hear about next man up constantly. It's something that in the current predicament needs to happen. Whether its our current spell of injuries or our slumping star forwards. This hasn't happened. Meanwhile 2 teams that were ravaged by Covid with multiple top players out had AHL+ and NHL depth players step up and fill roles. Sure Blackwell has done that and at points PDG and arguably Rooney. In reality, when Chytil went down Strome needed to elevate his game. When Panarin went down we needed our wingers to elevate their games. It hasn't happened.
3. Something feels off about this team. When the leaders on this team say they need to play a North South game and with more structure (aka the Coach's system) and that they need to play more complete 60 minute efforts and then proceed to get away from what was successful or just not show up for periods at a time, I'm at a loss at what is the source. If the coach's and player leadership say this is how we need to play and no one does it...is it a player problem? Has the coach lost the team? I feel like it a mix of both. My fear is just like when Torts's time expired and the team clearly started to play with a sense of relief that the mean drunk dad was gone, they started to do the same lackadaisical efforts with AV including no-showing completely in the playoffs.
In reality the biggest gripes are:
1. PP personnel which is the definition of insanity. Can we stop rolling out 4 RH shots and the only lefty just camps in front of the net? Zero movement, slow deliberate passing, and the only shot read is a guy who hasn't hit a one timer effectively in over a year. Even the 4 on 3 was 3 RH shots with Kreider camping in front of the net. That had to be the easiest OT PK I have ever seen. They simply relied on Panarin to somehow shoot it through Hart.
2. We hear about next man up constantly. It's something that in the current predicament needs to happen. Whether its our current spell of injuries or our slumping star forwards. This hasn't happened. Meanwhile 2 teams that were ravaged by Covid with multiple top players out had AHL+ and NHL depth players step up and fill roles. Sure Blackwell has done that and at points PDG and arguably Rooney. In reality, when Chytil went down Strome needed to elevate his game. When Panarin went down we needed our wingers to elevate their games. It hasn't happened.
3. Something feels off about this team. When the leaders on this team say they need to play a North South game and with more structure (aka the Coach's system) and that they need to play more complete 60 minute efforts and then proceed to get away from what was successful or just not show up for periods at a time, I'm at a loss at what is the source. If the coach's and player leadership say this is how we need to play and no one does it...is it a player problem? Has the coach lost the team? I feel like it a mix of both. My fear is just like when Torts's time expired and the team clearly started to play with a sense of relief that the mean drunk dad was gone, they started to do the same lackadaisical efforts with AV including no-showing completely in the playoffs.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
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Im sure the FO has a plan. If we armchair coaches and GMs can see the problems, surely they can. They know the team lacks a hard edge, is the easy team on opponents' schedules. The only player mentioned that's locked in long term is Kreider. DeAngelo blew up in their faces. But they surely have a plan. It's a multimillion dollar enterprise, not a lemonade stand they're running (hyperbole, not meant as an insult).
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