Player Discussion David Quinn: Part III

[chosen]

How the f*** do you regress over a span of 3 games.

If anyone believes a coach can cause Lafraniere to not succeed in the NHL, they think Lafrenniere is a borderline NHLer.

This idiocy about Quinn ruining Lias is an amazing testament to stupidity.

Good thing Quinn never coached Gretzky.

 

[aufheben]

@NYR asked the best question up above- what does Quinn do well? Quinn supporters can’t identify anything that he does well. If we define well as above average, what does Quinn as a coach, do above average?

Mica had a career year- got it
Artemi had a great year- got it

It’s just as easy to say this had nothing to do with coaching as it is to say it had everything to do with coaching because in reality, who can say for certain these two would not have flourished under any coach? From what I watch each game, the team is rudderless, has literally no identity, shows glaring errors that are the same since Quinn took over and the in game decisions especially allocating ice time remain indefensible.

If people are ok with below average to poor coaching then Quinn’s your man. If fans actually want a player group that’s well prepared for each game, has an identity and is developing strong hockey habits, it’s time to look elsewhere.

It should be a good question, but it’s not. Why not? See bolded.

 

[aufheben]

What he does well is obvious. He gives heavy usage to his top players and limited usage to his bottom players.

Remember when people constantly complained about AV not doing this? Remember when people complained about our power play?

 

[Filip Chytil]

O/U games until Laf's first point? What is the record for 1st overall picks?

2007 1OA pick Patrick Kane had an assist in his 2nd career game. Didn't score a goal until his 7th game his rookie year. Also had 72 points his rookie season.

2008 1OA pick Steven Stamkos scored his first point in his 8th NHL game. 1st goal came in his 9th career game.

2009 1OA pick John Tavares scored a goal and an assist in his 1st NHL game.

2010 1OA pick Taylor Hall had an assist in his 2nd career game. Scored his first goal in his 8th NHL game.

2011 1OA pick RNH scored a goal in his 1st NHL game.

2012 1OA pick Nail Yakupov scored a goal in his 2nd NHL game.

2013 1OA pick Nathan MacKinnon had 2 assists in his 1st NHL game but didn't score a goal until his 5th NHL game.

2014 1OA pick Aaron Ekblad had an assist in his 1st NHL game. Scored a goal in his 9th NHL game.

2015 1OA pick Connor McDavid scored a goal in his 3rd NHL game.

2016 1OA pick Auston Matthew scored 4 goals in his 1st NHL game.

2017 1OA pick Nico Hischier had an assist in his 2nd NHL game but didn't score until his 7th NHL game.

2018 1OA pick Rasmus Dahlin had an assist in his 4th NHL game and scored a goal in his 5th NHL game.

2019 1OA pick Jack Hughes had an assist in his 7th NHL game and scored a goal in his 8th NHL game.

 

[Zats Muccarello]

2007 1OA pick Patrick Kane had an assist in his 2nd career game. Didn't score a goal until his 7th game his rookie year. Also had 72 points his rookie season.

2008 1OA pick Steven Stamkos scored his first point in his 8th NHL game. 1st goal came in his 9th career game.

2009 1OA pick John Tavares scored a goal and an assist in his 1st NHL game.

2010 1OA pick Taylor Hall had an assist in his 2nd career game. Scored his first goal in his 8th NHL game.

2011 1OA pick RNH scored a goal in his 1st NHL game.

2012 1OA pick Nail Yakupov scored a goal in his 2nd NHL game.

2013 1OA pick Nathan MacKinnon had 2 assists in his 1st NHL game but didn't score a goal until his 5th NHL game.

2014 1OA pick Aaron Ekblad had an assist in his 1st NHL game. Scored a goal in his 9th NHL game.

2015 1OA pick Connor McDavid scored a goal in his 3rd NHL game.

2016 1OA pick Auston Matthew scored 4 goals in his 1st NHL game.

2017 1OA pick Nico Hischier had an assist in his 2nd NHL game but didn't score until his 7th NHL game.

2018 1OA pick Rasmus Dahlin had an assist in his 4th NHL game and scored a goal in his 5th NHL game.

2019 1OA pick Jack Hughes had an assist in his 7th NHL game and scored a goal in his 8th NHL game.

So you're saying there's hope?

 

[Filip Chytil]

So you're saying there's hope?

 

[duhmetreE]

2007 1OA pick Patrick Kane had an assist in his 2nd career game. Didn't score a goal until his 7th game his rookie year. Also had 72 points his rookie season.

2008 1OA pick Steven Stamkos scored his first point in his 8th NHL game. 1st goal came in his 9th career game.

2009 1OA pick John Tavares scored a goal and an assist in his 1st NHL game.

2010 1OA pick Taylor Hall had an assist in his 2nd career game. Scored his first goal in his 8th NHL game.

2011 1OA pick RNH scored a goal in his 1st NHL game.

2012 1OA pick Nail Yakupov scored a goal in his 2nd NHL game.

2013 1OA pick Nathan MacKinnon had 2 assists in his 1st NHL game but didn't score a goal until his 5th NHL game.

2014 1OA pick Aaron Ekblad had an assist in his 1st NHL game. Scored a goal in his 9th NHL game.

2015 1OA pick Connor McDavid scored a goal in his 3rd NHL game.

2016 1OA pick Auston Matthew scored 4 goals in his 1st NHL game.

2017 1OA pick Nico Hischier had an assist in his 2nd NHL game but didn't score until his 7th NHL game.

2018 1OA pick Rasmus Dahlin had an assist in his 4th NHL game and scored a goal in his 5th NHL game.

2019 1OA pick Jack Hughes had an assist in his 7th NHL game and scored a goal in his 8th NHL game.

usually teams that draft 1OA do not have the talent the Rangers have. Meaning he'll be hard pressed to get PP time and/or 'decent' ice time/linemates.

There's many variables but I believe he'll get on the board against Pittsburgh.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

usually teams that draft 1OA do not have the talent the Rangers have. Meaning he'll be hard pressed to get PP time and/or 'decent' ice time/linemates.

There's many variables but I believe he'll get on the board against Pittsburgh.

well he's supposed to start on the top line with Kreids and Mika and maybe PP 2 next game? Depends on how long before Quinn demotes him but if he plays regularly with those guys he's got a good shot.

 

[NYR]

@NYR asked the best question up above- what does Quinn do well? Quinn supporters can’t identify anything that he does well. If we define well as above average, what does Quinn as a coach, do above average?

Mica had a career year- got it
Artemi had a great year- got it

It’s just as easy to say this had nothing to do with coaching as it is to say it had everything to do with coaching because in reality, who can say for certain these two would not have flourished under any coach? From what I watch each game, the team is rudderless, has literally no identity, shows glaring errors that are the same since Quinn took over and the in game decisions especially allocating ice time remain indefensible.

If people are ok with below average to poor coaching then Quinn’s your man. If fans actually want a player group that’s well prepared for each game, has an identity and is developing strong hockey habits, it’s time to look elsewhere.

Exactly right @JHS

@aufheben
I think quite a few people like to mistake the difference between a coach developing a player vs a players natural evolution.
DQ hasn't had much part in any players development and most of them came from a different organization.

ADA and Zbad were facing their last kick at the can.
Play hockey or find a new career..

 

[aufheben]

Exactly right @JHS

@aufheben
I think quite a few people like to mistake the difference between a coach developing a player vs a players natural evolution.
DQ hasn't had much part in any players development and most of them came from a different organization.

ADA and Zbad were facing their last kick at the can.
Play hockey or find a new career..

Yeah you can say that again.

 

[aufheben]

Maybe if we apologize AV will come back.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I get that DQ is trying to find chemistry and make the lineup work but he is now switching the lines yet again. Pretty hard to create chemistry when you don't spend more than a game together.

Quinn changes the lineup like I change my underwear.

So what will happen now? If they beat the Pens he keeps the same lineup but if they lose it’s a lineup issue and he needs to try a 4th lineup in 5 games?

Even Mika said it in the interview. I haven’t played with Laffy yet and with Kreider switching to his off wing after playing over 600 games on the left it will certainly “take some time”.

Will they get even close to the amount of time they need to gel? It took all of 1 game for DQ to move Kakko off Panarins line and he was the best player of the three that night, after spending the entire camp next to them. What a waste of time.

How about showing the team and the players some confidence and sticking with a lineup... any lineup?

They had 50 shots on goal and they need Buch to help Panarin and Strome? If any two should be split up it’s them. God.

And I’m not even going into get into the demotion of Gautier for Rooney and how Smith isn’t paired with ADA.

We all saw how Smith easily outplayed JJ, to the point were many were talking about resigning him on the cheap. Resigning? How about just having him stick in the lineup!

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I don't exactly know what people expected from Quinn, teams usually have 8 exhibition games to sort all this out, we had some roster turnover and basically these games are having to be used like exhibition games to figure the roster out and imo they are trying to speed up that process and it shows. Teams all over the league are doing a jeckyl and hyde right now for the same reasons. I believe if Kreider doesn't look out of sorts that Lafreniere will basically stay in that spot. I also think if that's the case we need to find someone that compliments Kakko and Chytil on line 3 so that he can get his gravy too. Pdg doesnt look too bad in that spot but id be hopeful someone with more of a vision for the players around him could be put there.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

No thread is complete with out a completely out of touch and arrogant take from Korn and Onions.

Glad that we got that one out of the way.

Stop thinking about me. I’m sure you have better things to do.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Stop thinking about me. I’m sure you have better things to do.

Glad you could take a break from bullying high school kids on twitter to post this.

No but for real, I find it hilarious that youre going to play the "HEY, NON COACHES ARE GOING TO CRITIQUE ACTUAL COACHES" card when you do the same thing, albeit with scouting staffs. Like you actually know any better lmao (we've seen your rankings, they suck out loud.)

TLDR: Shut up.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Glad you could take a break from bullying high school kids on twitter to post this.

No but for real, I find it hilarious that youre going to play the "HEY, NON COACHES ARE GOING TO CRITIQUE ACTUAL COACHES" card when you do the same thing, albeit with scouting staffs. Like you actually know any better lmao (we've seen your rankings, they suck out loud.)

TLDR: Shut up.

Man you're pretty triggered. Why so angry? I'm sorry my rankings bother you so much. If my tweets bother you, you can always block me. I do that and it works out nicely.

I'm no fan of Quinn but as several others have said in this thread, there's simply no justification to give Kakko more minutes. It's not arrogant to think Rangers fans should temper calling for Quinn's head the night after Hughes outperformed Kakko.

 

[Kravtsov420]

The best thing is people saying, it’s only three games. This has been the trend since this clown got here. He’s inconsistent on how, when, and who his own principles apply to. Kakko plays well, demoted to third line. Strome, is complete ass for three games straight, and he’s acting like Ray Charles when it comes to moving him lower in the lineup or lowering his ice time.

it doesn’t take a strategical genius to see Ryan strome isn’t working on the power play. But for sake of some principles that he’s concocted in his head, f*** them young kids.

The thing I don’t like is that he doesn’t have a system. It’s all trying to score on the rush, with no offensive zone time besides jamming and praying your top power play can bail you out.

However, this all comes down to managements point of view. After AV, they wanted accountability. Now they are reaping what they sewed because this clown is worried more about accountability (which even that he seems to f*** up on a consistent basis, See: Strome, Johnson, Kakko, Gauthier, etc) than developing the future core.

The biggest mistake is pointing that everything has to be about winning. No, it should be about development first and the winning will come. You can’t win without getting primary contributions with young players. This isn’t the NHL of old. You can have young players in your top six with a good mix of vets and teach them the lessons that need to be learned. Instead this coach is too busy playing head games with the young players based on some subjective internal standards he came up with his numerous years of experience as NHL coach. Doesn’t take a genius to see it’s going to make the players question what they have to do succeed if there’s no consistency nor is it evenly applied.

Management and Quinn, by extension, are threatening to bring the whole thing down before it even begins. And that’s something I will never forgive this franchise for.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I don't exactly know what people expected from Quinn, teams usually have 8 exhibition games to sort all this out, we had some roster turnover and basically these games are having to be used like exhibition games to figure the roster out and imo they are trying to speed up that process and it shows. Teams all over the league are doing a jeckyl and hyde right now for the same reasons. I believe if Kreider doesn't look out of sorts that Lafreniere will basically stay in that spot. I also think if that's the case we need to find someone that compliments Kakko and Chytil on line 3 so that he can get his gravy too. Pdg doesnt look too bad in that spot but id be hopeful someone with more of a vision for the players around him could be put there.

Point taken that a lot of the line juggling is done in the preseason and a lot of other teams are dealing with similar issues. But its been 4 lineups in 5 games. Significant changes. At least stick with things for a few games to actually see if it works. Especially with this new top line.

That shouldn't be a one and done or even a 5 and done. You are asking a 19 year old rookie to go up against Sidney Crosby in the first road game of his career. And you are asking Kreids to switch sides as well. Some say it isnt a big deal for forwards but after playing that long in one position it could be. Hopefully things work out and that line is allowed the time to gel.

But to me the real problem is why you had to make that change in the first place. Strome and Panarin got off to a slow start in the bubble and they have this season as well. Especially Strome. He is in a big spot and if this continues how long will it be before Chytil gets a shot there?

Thats a change that would be warranted. But its obvious DQ is allowing Strome the time to get it going - which goes against the mentality he has used to make other changes. I would just like to see some consistency in that regard.

 

[Anthony5967]

So now we know Quinn can’t coach a team without Jesper Fast on it, per his comments today. Excuses galore. The guy has a pretty talented group of players. He’s in over his head at the pro level. He just is, and there’s no shame in it. Some guys can’t coach in the bigs. He’s a college coach who was supposed to develop the kids well. He’s basically making excuses and his entire top-6 needs to be veterans. He can only coach superstars like Panarin and Zib and vets? He’s doing some job with Kakko and Lafreniere so far.

 

[True Blue]

Management and Quinn, by extension, are threatening to bring the whole thing down before it even begins. And that’s something I will never forgive this franchise for.

The cow has officially jumped over the moon.

 

[True Blue]

So now we know Quinn can’t coach a team without Jesper Fast on it, per his comments today. Excuses galore. The guy has a pretty talented group of players. He’s in over his head at the pro level. He just is, and there’s no shame in it. Some guys can’t coach in the bigs. He’s a college coach who was supposed to develop the kids well. He’s basically making excuses and his entire top-6 needs to be veterans. He can only coach superstars like Panarin and Zib and vets? He’s doing some job with Kakko and Lafreniere so far.

Last year = overachievement. This year = he's in over his head and can only coach superstars.

Kakko is playing well....WHO CARES? HE IS BEING RUINED.

Lafreniere has been noticeable and playing pretty well for a 19 year old with two weeks of camp. WHO CARES? LOOK AT THE AWFUL JOB THAT IS BEING DONE WITH HIM? REGRESSION!!

 

[patnyrnyg]

If anyone believes a coach can cause Lafraniere to not succeed in the NHL, they think Lafrenniere is a borderline NHLer.

This idiocy about Quinn ruining Lias is an amazing testament to stupidity.

Good thing Quinn never coached Gretzky.

Seems like there was something off between Anderson and the org, last year something between Kravtsov and the org. Last year, Kaapo was quoted on a finnish podcast as questioning why he loses icetime for mistakes when others do not. Eventually, some are going to question if the problem lies with the player.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Around Christmas last year, I was starting to question Quinn. Not that he is a bad coach, not that he doesn't know what he is doing, but if he is here for long haul. Thinking he is a stop gap and when Management thinks they are really ready to be a legit contender, they will look for someone else to take them to the next level. Not 100% on board with that idea yet, but probably about 75% of the way there. But, I could be completely off, too.

 

[Anthony5967]

Last year = overachievement. This year = he's in over his head and can only coach superstars.

Kakko is playing well....WHO CARES? HE IS BEING RUINED.

Lafreniere has been noticeable and playing pretty well for a 19 year old with two weeks of camp. WHO CARES? LOOK AT THE AWFUL JOB THAT IS BEING DONE WITH HIM? REGRESSION!!

Lafreniere out of position, no Kakko on either PP while Brett 19 points Howden and Brendan Lemieux are out there over him and Filip Chytil, a guy who has two points now in three games. Keep kissing Quinn where the sun doesn't shine, though. Last year they overachieved because guys like DeAngelo, Fox, Panarin, and Zibanejad were unreal. Those guys are studs and infinitely talented. SHesterkin went on some run too at the end of the year. He was outcoached badly by Brind'Amour and looks to have no clue how to replace Jesper "Gretzky" Fast four games in. QUINN BABY!

 

[True Blue]

Lafreniere out of position, no Kakko on either PP while Brett 19 points Howden and Brendan Lemieux are out there over him and Filip Chytil, a guy who has two points now in three games. Keep kissing Quinn where the sun doesn't shine, though. Last year they overachieved because guys like DeAngelo, Fox, Panarin, and Zibanejad were unreal. Those guys are studs and infinitely talented. SHesterkin went on some run too at the end of the year. He was outcoached badly by Brind'Amour and looks to have no clue how to replace Jesper "Gretzky" Fast four games in. QUINN BABY!

This board has to decide which way it is going to go. First it pushes draft picks that are wings to center. Then we learn that switching sides is pretty easy. Now we are complaining about Lafreniere having all of two games on the right side. Something is not really jiving here.

Howden had all of 17 seconds on the second power play unit. How many did Kakko have? Want to guess? Lemieux plays a different side than Kakko. Lafreniere playing on the right is a managerial crime, but here you want to push Kakko on his opposite side? Let's at least be consistent about what we are complaining about. Pretty sure that Quinn said that Howden was out there for a draw.

So DeAngelo, Fox, etc. all played great and it was all in spite of Quinn. However, some unevenness in the youngest team in the league after a 2 week training camp with ZERO pre-season games, all the while learning a new defensive system and it is all Quinn's fault. Makes sense.