Rumor: David Jiricek available

[AKL]

Given that the bulk of your examples were from half a week ago (and we've gotten more information on the nature of a possible deal since then)

So you're telling me that Wild fans have been offering Ohgren+ for almost a week, and you think they

hasn't even gone so far as to offer Ohgren.

 

[Buttonwood]

Jiricek is interesting because he obviously has great tools/draft pedigree, but now 2 different GM/HC have been fine more or less jerking him around in his development and now (supposedly) open to dealing him. In this situation you have to ask, what do those with the closest look at him day-to-day see that would allow them to feel comfortable trading a high pick like that so relatively soon?

I'm 34 pages late to the party and an outside observer that might've missed the reason, but is there asymmetric information here?

 

[Viqsi]

So you're telling me that Wild fans have been offering Ohgren+ for almost a week, and you think they

Your logical fallacy is strawman

You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

AND

Your logical fallacy is special pleading

You moved the goalposts or made up an exception when your claim was shown to be false.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

Let's recap the posts that were involved:

I keep waiting to hear from Jackets fans on what they would be happy with from the Wild. Nobody seems capable of answering that question (yet).

That conversation is going to go something like this:
"We would be happy with Yurov, Buium or Wallstedt."
"LMAO. You're getting Öhgren and a pick and you're going to like it."
"Fine, no deal."
"What? You have to trade Jiricek this instance."
"Nuh uh."
"Yuh uh."

Etc, etc. Repeat ad nauseum.

EDIT: Note that the question here is what we would be happy with, not what is going to happen.

By and large the "and you're going to like it" crowd hasn't even gone so far as to offer Ohgren.

Note how the context is the "what would we be happy with" question. When we mention those names we would be happy with, nobody replies with those offers; instead, we get at best outright refusal. You're ignoring that context, presumably because it gets in the way of your persistent attempts at a "gotcha".

 

[AKL]

Note how the context is the "what would we be happy with" question. When we mention those names, nobody replies with those offers. You're ignoring that context, presumably because it gets in the way of your persistent attempts at a "gotcha".

I don't care what the original question was, I'm responding to what you said here:

By and large the "and you're going to like it" crowd hasn't even gone so far as to offer Ohgren.

Which is neither an answer to the question "What would you be happy with" nor an accurate or correct statement, as evidenced by the fact that you just told me Wild fans have been offering Ohgren for a week.

You can be unhappy about Ohgren being offered instead of the other three, but you can't say he hasn't been offered.

The truth is the "and you're going to like it" crowd HAS gone so far as to offer Ohgren, completely contrary to what you said.

 

[Viqsi]

I don't care what the original question was

And that's why you're reading something into my comment that was never there.

See, I can do the "cut off your post before you make your point" thing too.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

Jiricek is interesting because he obviously has great tools/draft pedigree, but now 2 different GM/HC have been fine more or less jerking him around in his development and now (supposedly) open to dealing him. In this situation you have to ask, what do those with the closest look at him day-to-day see that would allow them to feel comfortable trading a high pick like that so relatively soon?

I'm 34 pages late to the party and an outside observer that might've missed the reason, but is there asymmetric information here?

I've said it a few times in this thread but things easily get buried in the weeds. Jiricek had rightful beef with Jarmo. Jarmo told him to get a place then sent him down. That's bullshit and I don't think any Jackets fans disagree. It seems like the hostility ended there though. If he's unhappy and seeking a trade they've kept it under wraps very well(when does that ever happen?).

As far as getting jerked around, I think that's a bit of a nothing burger. He just turned 21 yesterday. This isn't uncommon for a young prospect, ESPECIALLY a defenseman. Do you think the Devils are jerking Nemec around? I don't. Same draft. Both have NHL experience playing in the AHL. That's how it works.

 

[AKL]

And that's why you're reading something into my comment that was never there.

I read your words, which said something that wasn't true.

 

[Viqsi]

I read your words, which said something that wasn't true.

You took a quote out of context and proclaimed it to be a lie because of the missing context.

I can deal with miscommunications and misunderstandings. I'm less sanguine about being accused of deliberately lying.

 

[AKL]

You took a quote out of context and proclaimed it to be a lie because of the missing context.

What was the context of

By and large the "and you're going to like it" crowd hasn't even gone so far as to offer Ohgren.

If it didn't mean that they haven't offered Ohgren?

 

[Viqsi]

What was the context of


If it didn't mean that they haven't offered Ohgren?

I've told you three times already.

 

[AKL]

I've told you three times already.

I have the full context right here

I keep waiting to hear from Jackets fans on what they would be happy with from the Wild. Nobody seems capable of answering that question (yet).

That conversation is going to go something like this:
"We would be happy with Yurov, Buium or Wallstedt."
"LMAO. You're getting Öhgren and a pick and you're going to like it."
"Fine, no deal."
"What? You have to trade Jiricek this instance."
"Nuh uh."
"Yuh uh."

Etc, etc. Repeat ad nauseum.

By and large the "and you're going to like it" crowd hasn't even gone so far as to offer Ohgren.

What is "hasn't even gone so far as to offer Ohgren" supposed to mean other than that the people you're talking about haven't even offered Ohgren in a trade?

For the record, this is the poster you had a problem with, going so far as to offer Ohgren in a trade:

I would offer Ohgren+pick+RD prospect for Jiricek.

You can't just keep saying "the original question was what would you be happy with", because saying "they haven't even gone so far as to offer Ohgren" is not in any way shape or form a response to "what would you be happy with".

 

[Viqsi]

I have the full context right here





What is "hasn't even gone so far as to offer Ohgren" supposed to mean other than that the people you're talking about haven't even offered Ohgren in a trade?

For the record, this is the poster you had a problem with, going so far as to offer Ohgren in a trade:

Looking at that post, it does not appear to be in reply to a discussion of any of the guys Jackets fans have so far described potentially being happy with as returns.

 

[TheNumber4]

Has there been a Center Prospect on offer for Jiricek yet? My guess is Waddel is trying to fill that hole.

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

What is "hasn't even gone so far as to offer Ohgren" supposed to mean other than that the people you're talking about haven't even offered Ohgren in a trade?

I took it to mean that it was a better offer than most.

 

[Viqsi]

Has there been a Center Prospect on offer for Jiricek yet? My guess is Waddel is trying to fill that hole.

...what hole? There's no hole at center here. Waddell and further growth of kids already patched that.

 

[AKL]

I took it to mean that it was a better offer than most.

Yeah, I don't think that's what it was considering they spent the last 30 minutes telling me that they meant that Wild fans haven't actually offered Ohgren and saying:

The majority of the Wild fans participating in here have been focused more on "how dare you express your wishes" than actually coming up with offers.

I think you're just as confused as I am and could also use the clarification instead of the gaslighting.

I mean, by all means, go ahead and express your wishes that the offer was Yurov, Buium or Wallstedt instead, and express that those would be the only players you'd be happy with, but don't say:

By and large the "and you're going to like it" crowd hasn't even gone so far as to offer Ohgren.

When it's an outright lie. That's all I'm saying.

 

[CBJx614]

Keep the 20+ yr tradition in CBJ alive of never having had a no.1 center

Sean Monahan says hi.

 

[AKL]

Has there been a Center Prospect on offer for Jiricek yet? My guess is Waddel is trying to fill that hole.

I mean the Wild could offer Heidt instead of Ohgren if that's better. I think a lot of Wild fans would even prefer that.

Most of us feel the offer is either Ohgren+ or Heidt+, we just don't know which one Columbus would want more. Anything else like Lambos, Spacek, Hunt, etc would be lesser starting value, so we'd assume Columbus wouldn't be interested.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

Has there been a Center Prospect on offer for Jiricek yet? My guess is Waddel is trying to fill that hole.

It's weird, conventional logic would say there is a hole there but we now have Monahan, Fantilli, Sillinger, Jenner, Kuraly, Voronkov, Johnson, and Danforth all capable of playing center. Most of those guys are going to be on the team long term, but then there's also Lindstrom.

The Jackets are far from a strong team don't get me wrong, but they don't have some glaring need either.

 

[Viqsi]

Yeah, I don't think that's what it was considering they spent the last 30 minutes telling me that they meant that Wild fans haven't actually offered Ohgren

Oh for f***'s sake. I didn't, and I'm getting sick of your accusations. What I was communicating was that when we respond to requests of what we want with guys we actually want, we get crap counteroffers. If it makes you feel better, I'll acknowledge that by and large Wild fans here have been just saying "no" and leaving it there rather than counteroffering with crap. If you're going to keep baldfacedly insisting that I'm some sort of malicious manipulative liar, tho, then there's not much point in continuing.

 

[AKL]

I'll acknowledge that by and large Wild fans here have been just saying "no" and leaving it there.

Okay

The majority of the Wild fans participating in here have been focused more on "how dare you express your wishes" than actually coming up with offers.

So Wild fans have, consistently and in good faith, been saying "no to the big three, but our counter offer is Ohgren+" instead of "how dare you express your wishes" and not coming up with any offers.

If this is the closest I'll get to your apology, I accept. You could have been a lot more clear about literally everything from the start, but humans make mistakes, and I get that.

 

[Viqsi]

Okay


So Wild fans have, consistently and in good faith, been saying "no to the big three, but our counter offer is Ohgren+" instead of "how dare you express your wishes" and not coming up with any offers.

If this is the closest I'll get to your apology, I accept. You could have been a lot more clear about literally everything from the start, but humans make mistakes, and I get that.

You could have also considered not diving immediatley into accusing folks of deliberately lying, but, as you say, humans make mistakes.

 

[Buttonwood]

I've said it a few times in this thread but things easily get buried in the weeds. Jiricek had rightful beef with Jarmo. Jarmo told him to get a place then sent him down. That's bullshit and I don't think any Jackets fans disagree. It seems like the hostility ended there though. If he's unhappy and seeking a trade they've kept it under wraps very well(when does that ever happen?).

As far as getting jerked around, I think that's a bit of a nothing burger. He just turned 21 yesterday. This isn't uncommon for a young prospect, ESPECIALLY a defenseman. Do you think the Devils are jerking Nemec around? I don't. Same draft. Both have NHL experience playing in the AHL. That's how it works.

Thanks - jerked around wasn't best choice of words.. not prioritizing development might be more applicable, this year anyway. This year he's been up, but not playing much, 3 fewer minutes game than last year, Fabbro/Harris adds... seemed strange (again as an outsider). Now he's down which is fine like you said, but you'd rather see him start down there and work his way up even if he doesn't play 20m/g when he's up.

That is true on Nemec, but NJD could compete this year so their priorities are a little different right now. Both may be valid, helpful demotions, I understand that is good to create competition, make players earn it, etc but tough to earn it with 11m a night - I guess we'll see

 

[AKL]

You could have also considered not diving immediatley into accusing folks of deliberately lying, but, as you say, humans make mistakes.

Yep, it was indeed my mistake for taking the words you posted for what those words mean instead of what you meant but kept in your head.

And it was my mistake for continuing to take your words at face value when you proceeded to double down on them here

Given that the bulk of your examples were from half a week ago (and we've gotten more information on the nature of a possible deal since then) and the other was almost entirely about Lambos with but a passing mention of Ohgren, I think it's actually pretty accurate. The majority of the Wild fans participating in here have been focused more on "how dare you express your wishes" than actually coming up with offers.

I promise to not take what you post as what you mean anymore, I'll assume you mean something different entirely that you decided not to share with us.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

Thanks - jerked around wasn't best choice of words.. not prioritizing development might be more applicable, this year anyway. This year he's been up, but not playing much, 3 fewer minutes game than last year, Fabbro/Harris adds... seemed strange (again as an outsider). Now he's down which is fine like you said, but you'd rather see him start down there and work his way up even if he doesn't play 20m/g when he's up.

That is true on Nemec, but NJD could compete this year so their priorities are a little different right now. Both may be valid, helpful demotions, I understand that is good to create competition, make players earn it, etc but tough to earn it with 11m a night - I guess we'll see

Oh for sure on your first point. I'm a little frustrated, not just in hockey but in all sports, about this media or fan pressure to play guys as soon as possible. Jiricek is an awesome prospect but he definitely has flaws that need worked out. He should have never been in the NHL for more than the 9 game cup of coffee. What is the rush? This thread is full of people saying the 21 year old defensemen is tanking his value because he can't stick with the NHL club. Could you imagine how stupid that statement would be 10 years ago?

Same thing with quarterbacks not to get off topic. They used to sit for years learning behind a vet. Now they need thrown in immediately. Why? Theres always unicorns, but let guys learn and develop at their own pace.