Well, Burke was a good friend, and Nonis is in an incredibly awkward position right now.
Confirmed with Link: Dave Nonis TML GM|Burke retained as Senior Advisor to board - III
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Well, Burke was a good friend, and Nonis is in an incredibly awkward position right now.
DD03
3D
- Mar 15, 2010
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That's your problem though. JFJ killed this team with the moves he made to get us in those 3 points combined missing the playoffs. It's because of his terrible asset management that Burke had to deal with absolutely nothing of value. To sit there and say JFJ did better then Burke is just blasphemy. JFJ crippled this franchise. There's no question about it.
Polk High
Registered User
- Sep 9, 2009
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He sure looked visibly shaken. This would be a lot to take in, especially with no warning as we are being told. He may even feel guilty for accepting the job of the guy who's helped him get to where he is.
SprDaVE
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- Sep 20, 2008
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He was taking over for one of his close friends, which was a major surprise even for him.
He was probably shook close to shock levels to be honest, but he's also that type of personality.
Just check interviews of him through the past couple years and he acts/talks the same... minus the shock.
leafsfuture
Registered User
- Mar 30, 2008
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While I hate to put pressure on this kid, the firing of Burke, the injury of gardiner, etc, would seem to make it all the more important that Kadri finally earns a spot on the team in Camp.
When Kadri plays well for the Leafs, it usually means we win games.
When Kadri plays well for the Leafs, it usually means we win games.
Mess
Global Moderator
Some of Leafs BOG wanted Quinn gone as well for none on ice related issues, the difference despite stripping him of his GM duties and demoting him only to coach, not until Quinn missed that first time did MLSE jump at the opportunity to axe him, before that he never gave them a valid reason on performance.
Like I said if your NHL GM is having current success, then the prospect pool becomes on little issue overall to the organization, but as we have seen today what is coming in the system is of little issue also for those in power to make changes to keep a GM beyond his expire date.
Ohio Jones
Game on...
He did. With a league-high payroll in a non-capped environment and by mortgaging the future at every opportunity. Basically the Yankees of the NHL, but without anything like the Yankees' success. That's hardly something to brag about.
mix1home
Registered User
fan590 Podcast with Brian Lawton and Neil Smith re: Burke firing
http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/PTS-2013-01-09-6-pm.mp3
Maybe this sheds light on the reason Burke was fired.
Around the 39-minute mark, Bob McCown (for what it's worth) says that he is 100% certain that Vancouver insisted on Kadri + Gardiner + for Luongo. Burke said no, although his management team urged him to take the deal for self-preservation.
Cox (again, for what it's worth) then notes that Nonis was fired by Vancouver for similar reasons after refusing to move the likes of Schneider and Kesler for immediate help.
Lawton says he drew flak from Tampa's owners for not moving a 1st rounder for Kaberle and Smith angered the Rangers' owners for refusing to negotiate a deal for Bure.
I think this Nonis quote says it all:
"We're going to have a very short window to make some very difficult decisions going forward," Nonis said. "We don't know exactly when that start date is, but we've been preparing for it with meetings the last several days. We'll continue to do that, and once we get the green light we're going to have a very short window to make some decisions about this hockey team."
That difficult decision sounds like Luongo to me.
http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/PTS-2013-01-09-6-pm.mp3
Maybe this sheds light on the reason Burke was fired.
Around the 39-minute mark, Bob McCown (for what it's worth) says that he is 100% certain that Vancouver insisted on Kadri + Gardiner + for Luongo. Burke said no, although his management team urged him to take the deal for self-preservation.
Cox (again, for what it's worth) then notes that Nonis was fired by Vancouver for similar reasons after refusing to move the likes of Schneider and Kesler for immediate help.
Lawton says he drew flak from Tampa's owners for not moving a 1st rounder for Kaberle and Smith angered the Rangers' owners for refusing to negotiate a deal for Bure.
I think this Nonis quote says it all:
"We're going to have a very short window to make some very difficult decisions going forward," Nonis said. "We don't know exactly when that start date is, but we've been preparing for it with meetings the last several days. We'll continue to do that, and once we get the green light we're going to have a very short window to make some decisions about this hockey team."
That difficult decision sounds like Luongo to me.
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LeafsNation75
Registered User
One thing you forget is JFJ didn't hire Quinn as his head coach. Maybe it wasn't fair but I think when you factor in that and Toronto missing the Playoffs during the 2005-2006 season, JFJ used it as an excuse to fire him.
tacoburrito
Registered User
SprDaVE
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- Sep 20, 2008
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You are reaching and over thinking quite a bit.
All Nonis meant is that there's a small window to make upgrades/adjustments where they because the season starts in only about a weeks time.
So if there's a deal to be made, it'll be difficult because they can't mull it over like a regular off-season. All 30 teams will be rushing to adjust their rosters accordingly.
They are preparing now but nothing can be put on the table because the CBA isn't finalized.
Boy oh boy there's going to be bad times on these forums...
All Nonis meant is that there's a small window to make upgrades/adjustments where they because the season starts in only about a weeks time.
So if there's a deal to be made, it'll be difficult because they can't mull it over like a regular off-season. All 30 teams will be rushing to adjust their rosters accordingly.
They are preparing now but nothing can be put on the table because the CBA isn't finalized.
Boy oh boy there's going to be bad times on these forums...
Mess
Global Moderator
No question JFJ moves particularly the NMC/NTC contracts of McCabe, Tucker, Kaberle, Kubina etc are still having a residual effect on the team today because of how that turned out.. But so are Kulemin, Gunnarsson, Reimer etc that he orchestrated. No one is saying JFJ wasn't a lousy GM and big mistake hiring by MLSE, but Burke's bottom 5 finished in 2 of the past 3 seasons speak for themselves also..
Burke to his own demise as we found out today, was also personality related and MLSE disliked that part of him apparently as much as I and other Leafs fans did as well. His mouth wrote cheques that his butt simply couldn't cash and in the end that appears to be to his eventual own demise on how he conducted himself as much as what he accomplished doing it.. They didn't like what they heard as much as what he did or didn't do or accomplish.
Soft spoken reserved Dave Nonis is much more in personality like JFJ "no comment" and then its just the results one can not like not the arrogance and other baggage as well that can often rub people the wrong way.
I don't think that's what he means. They've had four extra months to negotiate the deal.
edwardslane
Registered User
- Aug 6, 2010
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Brian Burkes Firing Was Personal.
Good article..
So, here's a question: how many times do you see a GM on a run of regular-season disappointed get fired - but the rest of his staff survive untouched?
It doesn't happen. You get an interim replacement or a complete Mr. Clean-style changeover. And that's the proof that whatever happened with Brian Burke was personal. Whether on-ice or the boardroom, someone important didn't want him around.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/01/brian-burke-firing-was-personal.html
Good article..
So, here's a question: how many times do you see a GM on a run of regular-season disappointed get fired - but the rest of his staff survive untouched?
It doesn't happen. You get an interim replacement or a complete Mr. Clean-style changeover. And that's the proof that whatever happened with Brian Burke was personal. Whether on-ice or the boardroom, someone important didn't want him around.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/01/brian-burke-firing-was-personal.html
if this whole luongo hoopla was a major player in all of this and all of this "bullying" scuttlebutt is true. i highly doubt Nonis would of even taken the job. I dont believe for a second that nonis will sell off gards and kadri or any first rounders etc for luongo in the next few days. if a deal happens, it will be centered around bozak or kadri. not both. any GM would be an idiot to give up multiple or significant assets for that contract plain and simple. yes luongo has value as a goalie. and thats the value gillis can trade him for. but this isnt a goalie whos 20 or 25 years old. and his contract brings his value down because of the potential disaster it can be down the road. and i dont think his value is anywhere near 2 young players with good upside plus a higher pick.
if gillis can pull in multiple significant assets like a kadri and gardner or kadri and bozak together. i will be amazed. the most likely thing to happen right now is that vancouver will keep him and buy him out. hes just not going to get what gillis thinks he should get.
if gillis can pull in multiple significant assets like a kadri and gardner or kadri and bozak together. i will be amazed. the most likely thing to happen right now is that vancouver will keep him and buy him out. hes just not going to get what gillis thinks he should get.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
JFJ was actually a great GM draft-wise .. His only real "bust" was Tlusty, but even he's panning out to be what he was projected now (2 way winger with 20 goal potential) .. He also drafted Rask who turned out pretty well
JFJ's problem was his FA signings and trades, because he was under pressure from ownership to 'win now' so he went ahead and made moves that he was hoping would put the Leafs over the hump .. Obviously those moves didn't work and the Leafs got left out of prospects/picks for the future
Had JFJ been given the option to rebuild and sell off the Muskoka 5 instead of trying to resign them I bet the Leafs would be an annual cup contender now .. Rather we were left with a barren farm system and an AHL roster playing at the NHL level.
.. Now with what's happened today my greatest fear, as is many fans on this board, is ownership making the same mistake by wanting to 'win now' and trying to place a GM in a position to make this team a contender when it has no business being one yet.
Much like you criticize Burke for finishing in the bottom for 2/3 seasons, you praise JFJ for all those prospects we see now .. Wait 2-3 more seasons and you'll be praising Burke for all those draft picks he brought in (through trades mostly) assuming those prospects aren't traded.
It'll be an endless cycle until we have an ownership group that is patient .. And we're almost there! So to remove Burke from his position when we're on the cusp of seeing his true work, where he gathered all these young quality prospects, is wrong. Sure his stopgaps failed miserably over the last few years but that doesn't mean he hasn't improved this team going forward.
leafsfuture
Registered User
- Mar 30, 2008
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^^
Say what you want about JFJ but he drafted well (when the Leafs actually picked!). Whether it wad him liking the guys he saw, or letting Dave Morrison and Tommie Bergman tell him who to take, he deserved credit for guys like Holzer, Reimer, Frattin, Kulemin
Just like pat Quinn was excellent at creating lines in his peak. He found guys who could play together and let them shone. He also didnt just break up lines after 2 games of no points.
Say what you want about JFJ but he drafted well (when the Leafs actually picked!). Whether it wad him liking the guys he saw, or letting Dave Morrison and Tommie Bergman tell him who to take, he deserved credit for guys like Holzer, Reimer, Frattin, Kulemin
Just like pat Quinn was excellent at creating lines in his peak. He found guys who could play together and let them shone. He also didnt just break up lines after 2 games of no points.
Leafs had a high payroll but were no where near the Yankees of the NHL. Were they ever even 1st in payroll? I'm pretty sure teams like NYR, the Rangers, and the Red Wings out spent them.
The Leafs got to 2 conference finals in Quinn's era. Since then we have done jack ****.
Don't lecture me about mortgaging the future. The Jays just traded every prospect imaginable. And we have yet to see how that will work out.
HellasLEAF
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Why are people so shocked at the timing. A new ownership has come in, they wanted to wait until the CBA had been agreed upon until they carried out a decision. Thing is, with trade deadline coming up and lots of activity to be had very soon, if you are sure you want to go in a different direction, may as well have the guy you want in charge in the future making those decisions.
HockeyGuruPitka
Registered User
Nonis gave the following players a vote of confidence:
Jake Gardiner
Morgan Rielly
Carter Ashton
Matt Finn
Joshua Leivo
Didnt hear squat about Frattin, Kadri, Percy, Biggs.
Jake Gardiner
Morgan Rielly
Carter Ashton
Matt Finn
Joshua Leivo
Didnt hear squat about Frattin, Kadri, Percy, Biggs.
Did Nonis say Kadri when he was talking about our great group of prosepcts brought in by Burke?
I know I heard him say both Ashton + Colborne ... but thats all I heard.
I know I heard him say both Ashton + Colborne ... but thats all I heard.
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