Dave Hakstol

[hatcher]

Actually sounds like a blast. Might take you up on it sometime.

Do it. We'll go everywhere dude and have a blast.

 

[deadhead]

Who was the alternative goalie, Neuvirth was dressed at times when he wasn't 100%, and I'd be afraid to put him in knowing that he's "Mr Fragile" when he wasn't completely healthy. Lyon certainly didn't inspire confidence when he came up. Or Ron never would have traded for Mrazek.

Goalies are always tough decisions on marginal playoff teams, rest your starter and give away games or overwork your starter?

Again, an issue which is more on Hextall, and the inevitable outcome of a rebuilding process where he refused to spend serious assets to build up short-term depth.

All this quibbling over PT decisions comes down to a lack of depth - if the Flyers had three solid lines, 4 solid defensemen and a reliable backup goalie, Hakstol could look as smart as Lavi in 2010-11 playoffs. It's much easier to coach when you have talent.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Those goalies are more physically capable than Elliott. I do not believe Elliott could sustain a run to the Finals at this stage. We know Neuvirth can't. Even when Elliott is putting up good numbers, he plays less than 50 games per year. Why do you think that is? Why do you think the plan is for our two goalies to share the burden? Additionally, there usually aren't 5 games in 8 days with back to backs in the Playoffs, and goalies get breaks if series are won quickly relative to future opponents, which means the schedule is still less strenuous than the sort of thing Hakstol put his goaltenders through.

You are pretending that Elliott and Neuvirth belong in a tier of goalie where they just don't belong in order to justify your absurd defense of Hakstol. There's a reason no other coach handles his goalies like he does.

I’m not pretending anything. I’m saying that there’s no proof Elliott’s injury was caused by Hakstol overusing him & that some people are treating that speculation as if it were a stone cold fact. To me, saying that we don’t know the cause of Elliott’s injury seems a pretty reasonable position to take; to you, saying there’s no proof that Hakstol caused Elliott’s injury is part of an “absurd defense of Hakstol.”

Maybe your disdain for the guy is influencing your opinions.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I’m not pretending anything. I’m saying that there’s no proof Elliott’s injury was caused by Hakstol overusing him & that some people are treating that speculation as if it were a stone cold fact. To me, saying that we don’t know the cause of Elliott’s injury seems a pretty reasonable position to take; to you, saying there’s no proof that Hakstol caused Elliott’s injury is part of an “absurd defense of Hakstol.”

Maybe your disdain for the guy is influencing your opinions.

The absurd defense of Hakstol is the lengths you've gone to completely dismiss the notion that Hakstol could have caused it.

 

[Striiker]

because I’m willing to point out things like the Simmonds turnover against Boston happened after an icing when posters were implying Hakstol sent that group out there for a faceoff, I’m labeled a “Hakstol apologist.” No, I’m just calling out instances where the anti-Hakstol bias overrides facts. I’ve said many times I wouldn’t care if they replaced him. But I don’t think he’s nearly as God-awful as many portray him.

I still have no idea why you think this is a defense of Hakstol's terrible bench management.

Those players shouldn't have been out at the end of the game... it doesn't matter if it was after an icing. Whether he sent them out together or it was a scrambled unit, the fact is he decided that each of them individually belonged on the ice at that point in the game, which is idiotic and indefensible.

This is why you're being called out for bias/contrarianism, because your defense of him doesn't make any sense and yet you so vigorously continue trying.

Being hypocritical doesn't help your case either. Constantly accusing others of being biased and then complaining when people label you as biased.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The absurd defense of Hakstol is the lengths you've gone to completely dismiss the notion that Hakstol could have caused it.

Except I never completely dismissed the notion. All I said was that we don’t know what caused the injury & that I think it’s wrong to treat it like fact that Hakstol caused it.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I still have no idea why you think this is a defense of Hakstol's terrible bench management.

Those players shouldn't have been out at the end of the game... it doesn't matter if it was after an icing. Whether he sent them out together or it was a scrambled unit, the fact is he decided that each of them individually belonged on the ice at that point in the game, which is idiotic and indefensible.

This is why you're being called out for bias/contrarianism, because your defense of him doesn't make any sense and yet you so vigorously continue trying.

Being hypocritical doesn't help your case either. Constantly accusing others of being biased and then complaining when people label you as biased.

You’re big on calling out others for “lying.”

You should be ok, then, with clarifying a factually incorrect notion that Hakstol directly sent that 5 man unit out for the dzone draw against Boston. It was after an icing.

I acknowledged several times Simmonds should never have been on the ice that late with the lead to begin with. You seem unable to grasp that.

But some people were claiming Hakstol “sent out” that 5-man unit for the draw, & that’s factually inaccurate & what I was referring to.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Except I never completely dismissed the notion. All I said was that we don’t know what caused the injury & that I think it’s wrong to treat it like fact that Hakstol caused it.

When irregular, abnormal goalie management unique to our team keeps resulting in injuries and worn down goalies at a rate other teams don't see, at some point you have to look at the common thread: the coach.

 

[hatcher]

Hak is staying and the players have to start games on time and play for more then just there own stats. If you went by points and good years we should have damn near won the cup but the team is worse then in 2014.

 

[hatcher]

You’re big on calling out others for “lying.”

You should be ok, then, with clarifying a factually incorrect notion that Hakstol directly sent that 5 man unit out for the dzone draw against Boston. It was after an icing.

I acknowledged several times Simmonds should never have been on the ice that late with the lead to begin with. You seem unable to grasp that.

But some people were claiming Hakstol “sent out” that 5-man unit for the draw, & that’s factually inaccurate & what I was referring to.

On icings the players out there have to stay and thats what happened.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

When irregular, abnormal goalie management unique to our team keeps resulting in injuries and worn down goalies at a rate other teams don't see, at some point you have to look at the common thread: the coach.

Are you asserting that Neuvirth wasn’t injury prone until Hakstol? Come on, man. Neuvirth has always been made of glass. He was that way before Hextall signed him as an unreliable backup. And Elliott could have suffered his injury no matter how many or few games he played. Your desire to pin it all on Hakstol is over-the-top. Are Stolarz’ injuries Hakstol’s fault somehow, too?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Are you asserting that Neuvirth wasn’t injury prone until Hakstol? Come on, man. Neuvirth has always been made of glass. He was that way before Hextall signed him as an unreliable backup. And Elliott could have suffered his injury no matter how many or few games he played. Your desire to pin it all on Hakstol is over-the-top. Are Stolarz’ injuries Hakstol’s fault somehow, too?

Neuvirth is injury prone. That's why playing him in that 8 day stretch like Hakstol did was the absolute zenith of idiocy. That's why we were able to easily and correctly predict he would be hurt. Hakstol used him in a way that made injury unavoidable. The second Neuvirth becomes fatigued and his form degrades, he breaks. These are known, simple facts. Hakstol did it anyway.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Because he didn’t trust Lyon. When Lyon played he was good. Had his moments of struggles like any young goalie but I thought he was fine.
The goalies were not handled properly at all.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Neuvirth is injury prone. That's why playing him in that 8 day stretch like Hakstol did was the absolute zenith of idiocy. That's why we were able to easily and correctly predict he would be hurt. Hakstol used him in a way that made injury unavoidable. The second Neuvirth becomes fatigued and his form degrades, he breaks. These are known, simple facts. Hakstol did it anyway.

So Neuvirth’s injury problems are related to fatigue & a breakdown in form? You’re just making stuff up. He always gets hurt, independent of his workload.

The Flyers were in a tight playoff race. Their starter got hurt. And so Hakstol played the NHL backup he was given by management. That was Neuvirth’s role. He got hurt, because he always gets hurt, but it’s not Hakstol’s fault his backup is so fragile. When every game matters, you really don’t want to play an untested, undrafted AHLer who had mediocre minor league stats & looked horrible in the little NHL action he received.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So Neuvirth’s injury problems are related to fatigue & a breakdown in form? You’re just making stuff up. He always gets hurt, independent of his workload.

The Flyers were in a tight playoff race. Their starter got hurt. And so Hakstol played the NHL backup he was given by management. That was Neuvirth’s role. He got hurt, because he always gets hurt, but it’s not Hakstol’s fault his backup is so fragile. When every game matters, you really don’t want to play an untested, undrafted AHLer who had mediocre minor league stats & looked horrible in the little NHL action he received.

Maximizing his workload maximizes his chance of injury. Stop waging war on basic logic. Per your reasoning there's no reason why MLB pitchers shouldn't pitch every single game. I mean hey, fatigue and form degradation don't cause poor results and injuries, so why not???

We were in a tight playoff race, that's why Hakstol's decision to handle Neuvirth like a total moron is even dumber.

 

[Striiker]

You’re big on calling out others for “lying.”

You should be ok, then, with clarifying a factually incorrect notion that Hakstol directly sent that 5 man unit out for the dzone draw against Boston. It was after an icing.

I acknowledged several times Simmonds should never have been on the ice that late with the lead to begin with. You seem unable to grasp that.

But some people were claiming Hakstol “sent out” that 5-man unit for the draw, & that’s factually inaccurate & what I was referring to.

So you're specifically arguing about him intentionally or accidentally ending up with those 5 out together? Even though it doesn't matter in the slightest, since either way it's 100% his fault and deserving of criticism?

OK, well that's much better...

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So you're specifically arguing about him intentionally or accidentally ending up with those 5 out together? Even though it doesn't matter in the slightest, since either way it's 100% his fault and deserving of criticism?

OK, well that's much better...

Some people acted as if Hakstol chose that 5 man unit for the purpose of taking that specific defensive zone draw in the waning seconds with the lead.

That is a misrepresentation.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

This thread is on whole another level.

 

[Striiker]

Some people acted as if Hakstol chose that 5 man unit for the purpose of taking that specific defensive zone draw in the waning seconds with the lead.

That is a misrepresentation.

And now that that's been corrected, surely you agree it's still 100% Hakstol's fault.

They couldn't coincidentally end up as the 5 players on the ice together if they were all on the bench where they belonged.

Just like if someone drives drunk and they kill someone because of it. Even if it's not intentional, it's still their fault for making bad choices that led to the bad result.

 

[Curufinwe]

When irregular, abnormal goalie management unique to our team keeps resulting in injuries and worn down goalies at a rate other teams don't see, at some point you have to look at the common thread: the coach.

Also look at how healthy and productive Mason was for Winnipeg this past season once he got away from Hak's mismanagement.

 

[Rebels57]

This thread is on whole another level.

It's par for the course.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

And now that that's been corrected, surely you agree it's still 100% Hakstol's fault.

They couldn't coincidentally end up as the 5 players on the ice together if they were all on the bench where they belonged.

Just like if someone drives drunk and they kill someone because of it. Even if it's not intentional, it's still their fault for making bad choices that led to the bad result.

How many times do you need me to tell you I don’t think Simmonds (who blew it) should’ve been on the ice in the last 2 minutes? I’ve said it at least 3 times. Is 4 enough?

 

[Magua]

This thread is on whole another level.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Maximizing his workload maximizes his chance of injury. Stop waging war on basic logic. Per your reasoning there's no reason why MLB pitchers shouldn't pitch every single game. I mean hey, fatigue and form degradation don't cause poor results and injuries, so why not???

We were in a tight playoff race, that's why Hakstol's decision to handle Neuvirth like a total moron is even dumber.

Is it wrong, then, to let forwards & defensemen play 82 games? To play back to back? Should they call up the Phantoms for back to back games?

Your MLB pitcher analogy to NHL goaltendending is ridiculous. Don’t you think maybe NHL defenseman is a little more analogous than a position revolving around throwing a ball 100 times? Or even MLB catcher, where they frequently play 4-5 times per week?

 

[deadhead]

Because he didn’t trust Lyon. When Lyon played he was good. Had his moments of struggles like any young goalie but I thought he was fine.
The goalies were not handled properly at all.

Lyon was not "fine." He has good fundamentals but looked slow moving laterally and getting down and back up again.
He looked much more comfortable in the AHL playoffs, where he raised his game a notch.
But Hextall had two years to watch him play, had he thought Lyon was ready he'd never have traded a 3rd rd pick for Mrazek.