Dave Hakstol

[Rebels57]

In 15-16, Mason played every game down the stretch because Neuvirth was injured. The other option was a 22 year old Stolarz. I remember that vividly because that hack Isaac blocked me on twitter when I made fun of him for claiming Hakstol would pull Mase for Stolie after the 1st period of a game where he gave up two goals.

Flyers lose Michal Neuvirth for 3 weeks amid tough wild card race

Eyeballing their game logs from that season, it looks like Neuvirth had one set of back to back starts on 12/10/15 & 12/11/15.

Michal Neuvirth Stats and News

Mason had four, but the first one wasn't until 3/11/16 & 3/12/16. The rest came after Neuvirth's injury.

Steve Mason Stats and News

I recall Stolarz pitching a shutout and also winning a game in Detroit, and still riding the bench far too much while Neuvirth was out. He was clearly afraid to trust him despite looking good in his appearances. It cost them as Mason got run down.

 

[Curufinwe]

That was the next season. Stolie didn't play any NHL games in 15-16.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I've read really really stupid things here at HFboards. This is one of them.

It’s a lot stupider to act like you’re a medical expert with intimate knowledge of Elliott’s injury & treat it like a fact that his injury was caused by Hakstol’s workload.

If you want to ignore that goalies injure themselves all the time, regardless of workload, trying to make saves, then you’re the daft one.

Face it. Anyone here speaking like a medical expert about why Elliott suffered an injury is talking out of his ass.

 

[Harhis]

It’s a lot stupider to act like you’re a medical expert with intimate knowledge of Elliott’s injury & treat it like a fact that his injury was caused by Hakstol’s workload.

If you want to ignore that goalies injure themselves all the time, regardless of workload, trying to make saves, then you’re the daft one.

Face it. Anyone here speaking like a medical expert about why Elliott suffered an injury is talking out of his ass.

There is reason why even the best young goalies don't play 20 games in a row.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

There is reason why even the best young goalies don't play 20 games in a row.

Are you a doctor?

Have you analyzed Elliott’s medical records?

Do goalies of various workloads suffer injuries?

Don’t call me stupid for pointing out that the assertion that Elliott’s workload caused his injury is pure conjecture.

 

[deadhead]

In 17-18...

Elliott experienced a pretty major injury after playing a lot.

Neuvirth suffered multiple minor injuries after barely playing at all.

Stolarz had a major injury reoccur while getting out of his car.

There you go again, injecting facts into a rant/counter rant.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Hakstol legacy is ghost and giroux going nuclear and carrying him team into playoffs. And also the whole choking frozen four thing lol.

I will never forget the North Dakota/UNH game 10 years ago in Manchester.

 

[VladDrag]

It’s a lot stupider to act like you’re a medical expert with intimate knowledge of Elliott’s injury & treat it like a fact that his injury was caused by Hakstol’s workload.

If you want to ignore that goalies injure themselves all the time, regardless of workload, trying to make saves, then you’re the daft one.

Face it. Anyone here speaking like a medical expert about why Elliott suffered an injury is talking out of his ass.

Look man, I am not trying to bust chops here, but you are wrong when you say there's no evidence that indicates a possible overuse injury. It's actually the most likely scenario. I coyld be wrong, but until someone tells me I am wrong and backs it up with evidence, that's the way I see it.

And, I do know a fair bit about training and injury prevention/injury occurance. No, not a medical expert, as in a trainer or doctor, but I do talk and deal with them frequently.

 

[Magua]

Dan Hakstok’s brain injury was caused by overuse.

He tried to play a game of Sudoku.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

I recall Stolarz pitching a shutout and also winning a game in Detroit, and still riding the bench far too much while Neuvirth was out. He was clearly afraid to trust him despite looking good in his appearances. It cost them as Mason got run down.

Hart must hate his life reading this thread.

 

[Harhis]

Are you a doctor?

Have you analyzed Elliott’s medical records?

Do goalies of various workloads suffer injuries?

Don’t call me stupid for pointing out that the assertion that Elliott’s workload caused his injury is pure conjecture.

I don't have to be doctor. It is common sense. I'm not saying it's the sole reason why he was injured. But it's just ignorant to state that Hakstol starting him 20 games in a row had nothing to do with the injury.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Are you a doctor?

Have you analyzed Elliott’s medical records?

Do goalies of various workloads suffer injuries?

Don’t call me stupid for pointing out that the assertion that Elliott’s workload caused his injury is pure conjecture.

Are you a doctor? Because you're the one making ridiculous claims about human endurance.

 

[hatcher]

Until the team is better and that wont be for awhile hexy knows Hak is in a no win spot right now. Hak coaches x and o's right but half the team is to stupid to follow it and the other half dont put it in properly for hexy to make a move.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Look man, I am not trying to bust chops here, but you are wrong when you say there's no evidence that indicates a possible overuse injury. It's actually the most likely scenario. I coyld be wrong, but until someone tells me I am wrong and backs it up with evidence, that's the way I see it.

And, I do know a fair bit about training and injury prevention/injury occurance. No, not a medical expert, as in a trainer or doctor, but I do talk and deal with them frequently.

Have you looked at Elliott’s medical file?

Have you spoken with him?

Do goalies suffer injuries even with light workloads?

You don’t know why Elliott got hurt. It easily could be akin to Quick pulling a groin on opening day, or a backup pulling a muscle despite a lighter workload.

Maybe the injury was the result of overuse, but it’s very far from a fact like so many assert. And it’s sure not “stupid” to point out that there’s zero medical evidence indicating Elliott was injured because of overuse & that goalies get injured all the time regardless of workload.

 

[hatcher]

Have you looked at Elliott’s medical file?

Have you spoken with him?

Do goalies suffer injuries even with light workloads?

You don’t know why Elliott got hurt. It easily could be akin to Quick pulling a groin on opening day, or a backup pulling a muscle despite a lighter workload.

Maybe the injury was the result of overuse, but it’s very far from a fact like so many assert. And it’s sure not “stupid” to point out that there’s zero medical evidence indicating Elliott was injured because of overuse & that goalies get injured all the time regardless of workload.

Elliot even said it a a fluke injury and not from fatigue.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Are you a doctor? Because you're the one making ridiculous claims about human endurance.

I’m the hyperbolic one? You think it takes superhuman endurance to play goaltender for 20 starts in a row? Glenn Hall started over 500 games in a row. In ‘73/74, Bernie Parent played in 73 games, then 17 playoff games en route to the Cup. I guess Shero was a moron. Cup winning goalies routinely make around 20 starts in a row. This is not some insurmountable physical feat for a trained pro athlete.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I’m the hyperbolic one? You think it takes superhuman endurance to play goaltender for 20 starts in a row? Glenn Hall started over 500 games in a row. In ‘73/74, Bernie Parent played in 73 games, then 17 playoff games en route to the Cup. I guess Shero was a moron. Cup winning goalies routinely make around 20 starts in a row. This is not some insurmountable physical feat for a trained pro athlete.

Those goalies were capable of it and spent their lives training for it.


Elliott and Neuvirth aren't exactly Bernie Parent or Hall, who are both HOFers (One who played in shorter seasons, to boot), are they? That's quite the hyperbolic comparison you've made there.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Elliot even said it a a fluke injury and not from fatigue.

Doesn’t matter. The board narrative is “Hakstol caused it” despite zero evidence. And because I’m willing to point out this lack of evidence, & because I’m willing to point out things like the Simmonds turnover against Boston happened after an icing when posters were implying Hakstol sent that group out there for a faceoff, I’m labeled a “Hakstol apologist.” No, I’m just calling out instances where the anti-Hakstol bias overrides facts. I’ve said many times I wouldn’t care if they replaced him. But I don’t think he’s nearly as God-awful as many portray him.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Those goalies were capable of it and spent their lives training for it.


Elliott and Neuvirth aren't exactly Bernie Parent or Hall, who are both HOFers (One who played in shorter seasons, to boot), are they? That's quite the hyperbolic comparison you've made there.

They played in eras where training & nutrition pale in comparison to today. Like I said, goalies who make the Cup final routinely play 20ish games in a row — & that’s after a full regular season. You’re severely overrating how physically impossible it is to endure Elliott’s usage without inevitable injury.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Remember when Neuvirth was dehydrated and passed out mid game?

 

[hatcher]

Doesn’t matter. The board narrative is “Hakstol caused it” despite zero evidence. And because I’m willing to point out this lack of evidence, & because I’m willing to point out things like the Simmonds turnover against Boston happened after an icing when posters were implying Hakstol sent that group out there for a faceoff, I’m labeled a “Hakstol apologist.” No, I’m just calling out instances where the anti-Hakstol bias overrides facts. I’ve said many times I wouldn’t care if they replaced him. But I don’t think he’s nearly as God-awful as many portray him.

Dude go have fun in life LOL. Jamming on this board doesnt get us anywhere. Come down to Kelowna and come golfing and boating with me and have fun man and bring the family. All the best mango.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They played in eras where training & nutrition pale in comparison to today. Like I said, goalies who make the Cup final routinely play 20ish games in a row — & that’s after a full regular season. You’re severely overrating how physically impossible it is to endure Elliott’s usage without inevitable injury.

Those goalies are more physically capable than Elliott. I do not believe Elliott could sustain a run to the Finals at this stage. We know Neuvirth can't. Even when Elliott is putting up good numbers, he plays less than 50 games per year. Why do you think that is? Why do you think the plan is for our two goalies to share the burden? Additionally, there usually aren't 5 games in 8 days with back to backs in the Playoffs, and goalies get breaks if series are won quickly relative to future opponents, which means the schedule is still less strenuous than the sort of thing Hakstol put his goaltenders through.

You are pretending that Elliott and Neuvirth belong in a tier of goalie where they just don't belong in order to justify your absurd defense of Hakstol. There's a reason no other coach handles his goalies like he does.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The other issue with that old-timey comparison is that Hall and BP played a different style which is less physically intensive than butterfly.


Additionally, if humans are supermachines that are not more prone to injury when they are over-exerted, how come MLB pitchers don't pitch back to back?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Dude go have fun in life LOL. Jamming on this board doesnt get us anywhere. Come down to Kelowna and come golfing and boating with me and have fun man and bring the family. All the best mango.

Actually sounds like a blast. Might take you up on it sometime.

 

[VladDrag]

Have you looked at Elliott’s medical file?

No

Have you spoken with him?

No

Do goalies suffer injuries even with light workloads?

Yes, and there is always a reason behind it. Pulls, strains, partial/full tears etc, happen because the body wasn't able to hand that strain/stress, for a variety of reasons.

You don’t know why Elliott got hurt. It easily could be akin to Quick pulling a groin on opening day, or a backup pulling a muscle despite a lighter workload.

Yes, it could.

Maybe the injury was the result of overuse, but it’s very far from a fact like so many assert. And it’s sure not “stupid” to point out that there’s zero medical evidence indicating Elliott was injured because of overuse & that goalies get injured all the time regardless of workload.

But there is evidence (which I've pointed out), that's my whole point.