Player Discussion Darnell Nurse is a #1 dman

[McJadeddog]

he’s basically Puljujarvi but on D. All that potential, rocks for brains. Highly touted jr career that never translated into pro

The diff with JP is that JP didn’t cost 9.25M . though his fans were arguably more obnoxious than Nurse apologists lol

Need to punt Nurse to the sun. Maybe he’ll develop a rash or something after the playoffs…

This is exactly how I described Nurse to my wife the other day "million dollar talent, ten cent head", which is how I used to describe JP as well, word for word. I'm not sure I've ever seen a player with the physical gifts that Nurse has use them so badly. Fast skater, strong as hell, tough, can hit, agile on his skates (especially for a big man), but just zero hockey IQ at all. It's infuriating. If he had even average NHL-IQ (obviously he knows the game light years better than normal hockey players, lol) he would be a perennial all-star.

 

[TheNumber4]

Nurse is like a D version of Yakupov. Low IQ, high confidence player that has a lot of talent and plays on instinct.

Coaches then understandably try to work their warts out of their game because they are liabilities a lot of the time, but being low IQ they struggle to learn while the instinctual stuff that got them there gets neutered.

Eventually you have a player that's lost his strengths but not his weaknesses and they have no idea what to do anymore.

With Nurse he was a big Canadian kid with leadership qualities so he was given more rope than the Russian kid who didn't get to hang with Hall and his posse.

Yeh I’d agree with this. There’s elements of Nurses game, the swagger, aggressiveness, the skating that’s gone missing over the years. Sure that stuff has hurt him in the past, but you still want those elements of his game for him to be at his most effective.

Whether by coaching or just his confidence getting beaten down over and over cause he’s a defensive sieve. Those elements of his game are now missing. And we’re left with his low iq and no confidence for him to use his god given gifts to make up for it.

It’s really been a long slow downward spiral for this player. And I don’t know if there’s anything to save him. He needs to look in the mirror and figure something out.

 

[McJadeddog]

He looks like he's broken. Like say what you will about the player, he used have confidence, and swagger and that seems completely gone.

Maybe he's having some kind of self confidence crisis right now, it would make sense in what I'm watching on the ice.

He should watch video of himself from the 2022 playoffs and try to remember that player.

Who knows, maybe there is something personal going on that we don't all know about. That is certainly possible, and I hope it isn't true (as you don't want something bad for anybody of course).

 

[foshizzle]

Yes, but he the only Dman to make a save with his butt crack... man deserves a raise..

PS, anyone got gif of the save?

This made me laugh...thanks!!

Imagine if that went in- you would have Darnell in the crease- ass facing the play on his hands and knees. Incredible

 

[foshizzle]

What I've said if you paid attention is that he is not playing his game anymore. He is not skating, joining the rush, contributing offense 5-on-5 as well as munching big minutes.

Therefore I suspect there's something hampering him physically this year similar to how he was hampered physically against the Avs (which you conveniently omitted).

Maybe it's just a confidence issue from being passed on the depth chart but Darnell doesn't strike me as a guy who is very down on himself.

Maybe with age and starting a family etc he doesn't have the same swagger anymore as some have alluded to.

He was never as good as that contract but he clearly looks off this year compared to previously. We see it with Connor too, although Connor obviously is a much better player.

And what I'm saying to you, if you pay attention- what you have imagined in your head that he was- he has never been that player. Sure- let's say he was injured against the avs. What about the whole season before then? how about the whole last season and Vegas? How about this whole season?

He was forced to play "those big minutes" because the Oilers didnt have anyone else. Once they got an actual D-Man- he got demoted. He has NEVER been able to move the puck. He has ALWAYS been bad at preventing rush chances against. He has ALWAYS been bad at moving the puck out. Don't believe me- head over to puckIQ, naturalstattrick- or any of the analytics site and see for yourself. THIS IS WHO HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN

 

[Pass the Saitl Sauce]

Player development failed with this player too, when drafted he had all the tools to become a premier shutdown d man like Tanev but more physical and a better skater. Somewhere along the way they tried turning him into an offensive D. Watching him now the physicality is non existent and his defence is so inconsistent

 

[ManofSteel55]

Darnell Nurse's game has fallen into the abyss. I know a lot of people are going to always hate on Nurse, but if you look at it objectively, his game has taken a huge step back this season. For everyone hating on Ceci all year, I think this playoff has shown that Cody Ceci isn't the problem on the blueline.

I still think Nurse can rebound. I just don't know if he needs a change of scenery or not. It's too bad that he has an untradeable contract, because I think he could bounce back elsewhere, but I don't see any GM in the league taking him without either sending another awful player back, or without getting some pretty serious retention.

Player development failed with this player too, when drafted he had all the tools to become a premier shutdown d man like Tanev but more physical and a better skater. Somewhere along the way they tried turning him into an offensive D. Watching him now the physicality is non existent and his defence is so inconsistent

I wonder if they haven't told him to stop hitting. He gets penalties basically whenever he knocks anyone over, so if Knoblauch told him to stop hitting people, it might be messing with his game. I don't know, just throwing ideas out there because this is by far the worst he has ever looked.

 

[Fishy McScales]

And what I'm saying to you, if you pay attention- what you have imagined in your head that he was- he has never been that player. Sure- let's say he was injured against the avs. What about the whole season before then? how about the whole last season and Vegas? How about this whole season?

He was forced to play "those big minutes" because the Oilers didnt have anyone else. Once they got an actual D-Man- he got demoted. He has NEVER been able to move the puck. He has ALWAYS been bad at preventing rush chances against. He has ALWAYS been bad at moving the puck out. Don't believe me- head over to puckIQ, naturalstattrick- or any of the analytics site and see for yourself. THIS IS WHO HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN

Now you're putting words in my mouth again.

Are you also saying he's never been an active skater and that he's never been jumping up the play on the rush?

 

[foshizzle]

Player development failed with this player too, when drafted he had all the tools to become a premier shutdown d man like Tanev but more physical and a better skater. Somewhere along the way they tried turning him into an offensive D. Watching him now the physicality is non existent and his defence is so inconsistent

I think Tippett was the worst thing to happen to him. Tippett's system of backing right in and not playing the D in the neutral zone is now ingrained into him.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Now you're putting words in my mouth again.

Are you also saying he's never been an active skater and that he's never been jumping up the play on the rush?

Nurse is the most polarizing player we have ever had. Some people just hate on him and watched his game so closely so they could pick out every mistake he has made, that they're convinced that he's always been awful. He's the worst he has ever been now, but some won't admit it because it makes them admit that their narrative of "Nurse = worst" was wrong until now.

 

[foshizzle]

Now you're putting words in my mouth again.

Are you also saying he's never been an active skater and that he's never been jumping up the play on the rush?

I'm not putting words into your mouth- I'm telling you are flat wrong. He's a great skater- that doesn't make him a good d-man. He has reduced jumping into plays as much as he did during the COVID year (outlier) because he needs to focus on defense and not make stupid pinches and join rushes at poor times. Other than that- he is as active as he has always been

Nurse is the most polarizing player we have ever had. Some people just hate on him and watched his game so closely so they could pick out every mistake he has made, that they're convinced that he's always been awful. He's the worst he has ever been now, but some won't admit it because it makes them admit that their narrative of "Nurse = worst" was wrong until now.

Go back in this thread- I defended him. If you look at his numbers- his defensive metrics. They are bad. It has nothing to do with liking or hating him- his numbers speak for themselves.

 

[Fishy McScales]

I'm not putting words into your mouth- I'm telling you are flat wrong. He's a great skater- that doesn't make him a good d-man. He has reduced jumping into plays as much as he did during the COVID year (outlier) because he needs to focus on defense and not make stupid pinches and join rushes at poor times. Other than that- he is as active as he has always been

Again you are arguing points I'm not disputing.

You're clearly too emotional about the player to have a meaningful discussion, so I'll take the L and move on with my day if it lowers your pulse.

 

[foshizzle]

Again you are arguing points I'm not disputing.

You're clearly too emotional about the player to have a meaningful discussion, so I'll take the L and move on with my day if it lowers your pulse.

Doesn't lower my pulse at all. I'm not emotional at all- seems like you are though. I'm saying your assessment is wrong based purely on numbers. He has never been good based on numbers. This is not my personal opinion- it's simply a measurement of his performance. You can argue your bias (which is based on emotion)- I'll base my assessment on watching his play and reviewing his analytics. Folks have posted his performance charts all playoffs in the post game threads. Like I said- feel free to check his metrics at the sites I mentioned. Have a great day

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

That'll happen when your goalie has an .823 SV%.

Not to mention the 5.32 onSH% from the useless bottom six that he plays the majority of his minutes with.

-13 with an xGF differential of -2.

Not my fault Nurse.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Doesn't lower my pulse at all. I'm not emotional at all- seems like you are though. I'm saying your assessment is wrong based purely on numbers. He has never been good based on numbers. This is not my personal opinion- it's simply a measurement of his performance. You can argue your bias (which is based on emotion)- I'll base my assessment on watching his play and reviewing his analytics. Folks have posted his performance charts all playoffs in the post game threads. Like I said- feel free to check his metrics at the sites I mentioned. Have a great day

What is my assessment and what have you said thus far to disprove it?

 

[foshizzle]

What is my assessment and what have you said thus far to disprove it?

Your assessment is that he was

"I know that ****ing on Nurse is what we do around here, and he has been terrible, but he usually isn't anywhere near this bad."

And I said, yes, he has always been this bad.

Not even with a torn hip flexor against a stacked Avs team was he this bad. Normal Darnell is a minute munching monster that joins the rush and produces 5-on-5 sprinkled in with relatively frequent brainfarts

I guess I should have asked what your definition of "production" is. Is it just scoring or is it net outcome of him on the ice? If it is net outcome- he has always gotten caved.

What have I done to disapprove it. I said

- Outscored when he is has been in the ice against Colorado and Vegas 15-3
- Been on the ice for 18 ES goals against this playoffs
- His successful zone exits is near the bottom of the league amongst dmen, his zone rush defence is near the bottom of the league amongst defensemen, his zone denials are near the bottom of the league amongst defensemen.

Again, have a nice day

 

[Fishy McScales]

Your assessment is that he was

"I know that ****ing on Nurse is what we do around here, and he has been terrible, but he usually isn't anywhere near this bad."

And I said, yes, he has always been this bad.

Not even with a torn hip flexor against a stacked Avs team was he this bad. Normal Darnell is a minute munching monster that joins the rush and produces 5-on-5 sprinkled in with relatively frequent brainfarts

I guess I should have asked what your definition of "production" is. Is it just scoring or is it net outcome of him on the ice? If it is net outcome- he has always gotten caved.

What have I done to disapprove it. I said

- Outscored when he is has been in the ice against Colorado and Vegas 15-3
- Been on the ice for 18 ES goals against this playoffs
- His successful zone exits is near the bottom of the league amongst dmen, his zone rush defence is near the bottom of the league amongst defensemen, his zone denials are near the bottom of the league amongst defensemen.

Again, have a nice day

I meant as in offensive production yes, could have been clearer.

Your numbers to "prove" that Nurse was always this bad are incredibly shallow, but moreover they do not have anything to do with the stuff you quoted above. It's just a few cherry-picked stats from a tiny sample size.

And then in your emotional crusade to discredit everything about the player, you try to pad your argument with metrics (but no actual numbers!) that I have never disputed Darnell struggling with.

I ask you one more time: what is my assessment and what have you said thus far to disprove it?

 

[foshizzle]

I meant as in offensive production yes, could have been clearer.

Your numbers to "prove" that Nurse was always this bad are incredibly shallow, but moreover they do not have anything to do with the stuff you quoted above. It's just a few cherry-picked stats from a tiny sample size.

And then in your emotional crusade to discredit everything about the player, you try to pad your argument with metrics (but no actual numbers!) that I have never disputed Darnell struggling with.

I ask you one more time: what is my assessment and what have you said thus far to disprove it?

lol- how are they shallow? And again, you keep going back to being emotional- dude that speaks volumes about you.

Dude, I'm done speaking in circles with you. I've told you what you said with your own quotes- you still don't get it. I guess your own words aren't clear enough for you. I told you where he ranks in key metrics for defensemen, you said they are cherry picked. lol. I'm pretty confident you have no clue about analytics- but here you go. I can't wait to hear how all this wrong but you are right and all this is made up. Just to be clear- HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN HOT GARBAGE. Your Assessment is HE WAS ONCE GOOD. If that is not what you're saying please let me know.

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[Fishy McScales]

lol- how are they shallow? And again, you keep going back to being emotional- dude that speaks volumes about you.

Dude, I'm done speaking in circles with you. I've told you what you said with your own quotes- you still don't get it. I guess your own words aren't clear enough for you. I told you where he ranks in key metrics for defensemen, you said they are cherry picked. lol. I'm pretty confident you have no clue about analytics- but here you go. I can't wait to hear how all this wrong but you are right and all this is made up. Just to be clear- HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN HOT GARBAGE. Your Assessment is HE WAS ONCE GOOD. If that is not what you're saying please let me know.

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Gets called out for cherry picking shallow numbers from small sample sizes. Posts a friggin' dashboard.

"Dude", you keep misconstruing what I've said. I didn't say he used to be good; I said I wonder if he's hurt because he looks worse than usual. He doesn't play his typical game.

It's just so incredibly tiring to come to these boards to talk about the Oilers and have the usual suspects come in to take it upon themselves to educate everyone on how awful player X is because someone dared say anything remotely not negative about them. You are that kind of poster. It pollutes the discussion.

Dunning-Kruger tells me you think you're some analytics wizard so I'll just nod and say that you seem awfully knowledgeable about stats and how they represent reality.

 

[CupofOil]

That'll happen when your goalie has an .823 SV%.

Not to mention the 5.32 onSH% from the useless bottom six that he plays the majority of his minutes with.

-13 with an xGF differential of -2.

This is sounding like the "not my fault Skinner" crowd. It's pretty clear by the numbers and when you watch Nurse play that he's not playing good hockey. It's not like he's all of a sudden going to become Ekholm if he plays more with McDavid, it doesn't work that way. Nurse's problems are largely due to Nurse, not Skinner, not the bottom 6, what you're doing is listing a pile of excuses for his poor play.

Of course, there's more factors at play than just one player but the consistent factor in goals against in playoff series is Darnell Nurse being on the ice playoff year after playoff year.

 

[Canovin]

This was a player who was going to take 8M x 4 years until Seth Jones got his deal. He was going to bail on the Oilers after 4 years if he didn't get the 9.25M.

 

[McDNicks17]

This is sounding like the "not my fault Skinner" crowd. It's pretty clear by the numbers and when you watch Nurse play that he's not playing good hockey. It's not like he's all of a sudden going to become Ekholm if he plays more with McDavid, it doesn't work that way. Nurse's problems are largely due to Nurse, not Skinner, not the bottom 6, what you're doing is listing a pile of excuses for his poor play.

Of course, there's more factors at play than just one player but the consistent factor in goals against in playoff series is Darnell Nurse being on the ice playoff year after playoff year.

Nah. This is coming from the "don't bring up numbers if you don't want to talk context" crowd. Nowhere in my post did I say Nurse was playing well. I was just showing that Skinner is making those bad numbers even worse.

PDO was a hot topic with the Canucks. Nurse's PDO right now is just shy of being 3 times lower than 1.000 than the Canucks were above 1.000 during the season. It's kind of funny how PDO was such a big deal for them, but apparently just a bad excuse for Nurse.

 

[K1984]

Yeh I’d agree with this. There’s elements of Nurses game, the swagger, aggressiveness, the skating that’s gone missing over the years. Sure that stuff has hurt him in the past, but you still want those elements of his game for him to be at his most effective.

Whether by coaching or just his confidence getting beaten down over and over cause he’s a defensive sieve. Those elements of his game are now missing. And we’re left with his low iq and no confidence for him to use his god given gifts to make up for it.

It’s really been a long slow downward spiral for this player. And I don’t know if there’s anything to save him. He needs to look in the mirror and figure something out.

Whenever I hear "Nurse has to learn less is more" I cringe, and I think you're kind of speaking to the result of that message. He's probably the one player you would rather have running around rather than slowing down and thinking, and I wonder if that is how he's interpreting the message.

Nurse is unique in that his physical abilities are all he has to offer. When he's skating, hitting, shooting, etc he can actually be effective, but the trade off is he's going to f*** up once in a while. Conversely the "slow down and think" strategy causes him to not play to his physical strengths at all, while still being a disaster due to him not knowing how to play hockey.

I've long thought that you kind of just have to unleash him and accept the bad with the good. Let him run around and be high event, but with some hits and goals to our benefit along the way. Currently we are getting the worst of everything.

 

[Canovin]

Plot twist: "don't bring up numbers if you don't want to talk context" and "not my fault Skinner" are the same crowd

 

[McDNicks17]

Plot twist: "don't bring up numbers if you don't want to talk context" and "not my fault Skinner" are the same crowd

I'm pretty sure you quoted like two of my posts shitting on Skinner in the PGT haha.

There isn't a single number that makes him look good. The added context of the team's defensive metrics actually makes him look even worse.