Proposal: Dallas and Nashville

[Troy McClure]

How old is he? Do you expect him to take powerplay time away from the likes of benn, seguin, sharp, spezza, etc??

I don't. But those guys all played on the first unit. I'm talking about the second unit where he still got no PP time. If he was oozing talent like you say, I would think he could beat out any of the second unit players for PP time.

The kid has loads of talent and anyone that watches the draft and/or nichushkin knows this. Are you saying he is a flop at the age of 21??

I don't watch the draft. I don't care about the draft. You being excited about how good he was in a handful of YouTube clips from when he was 17 and playing on an international rink against inferior competition has nothing at all to do with the player he is today.

I'm not saying he will be a flop. Who knows. I don't claim to know what he'll be three years from now. He might become really good some day. For his sake, I hope he does.

All I can do is talk about the player he is now, which is not very good. You're the one hyping him up as ready to step in and be your top line winger, and that's just crazy talk going by what he's done so far. So far, he's had very few high end offensive flashes and has been largely a waste of a roster spot.

You realize who we have on our top PP right? No kid will replace Benn Seguin Sharp or Spezza and out top PP unit plays most of the PP time. His lack of PP time is because he have 4 very very good PP players not because he is bad. He hasn't been given a shot there and our second unit is bad because our first one is so top heavy.

None of this explains why he didn't get ice time with the second PP unit. His lack of PP time is because the coaching staff thought Benn, Seguin, Spezza, Sharp, Hemsky, Eakin, Eaves, and (come playoff time) Sceviour were all more deserving of PP time. That's eight players who were given more PP time. The top unit being stacked had nothing to do with Nichushkin being a PP afterthought.

 

[thecloser]

Nichushkin could be the answer for our first line. Kam and Dougherty have yet to play an nhl game. Of the three, nichushkin is the most valuable and we are in a win now mode with an old af goalie who's almost over the hill.

your logic here is asinine. Nichushkin could still be labeled as unproven. Sure he's played two season in the league, but he hasn't exactly SHINED. Maybe you don't know much about Kamenev, but his value is extremely high. He is our possible 2nd line center answer once Ribeiro and Fisher flame out.

What have Preds fans also been talking about "needing?" Oh, that's right, a second line center....barring a trade at the deadline for said 2nd line center for the playoffs, we're rolling with Ribeiro and Fisher and 2C and 3C w/ Kamenev likely to see 10-15 games to get his feet wet, and if he kills it, he'll likely stay.

But your logic that because Kamenev and Dougherty haven't seen an NHL game, we should trade them, is absolutely paramountly insane.

I don't even think paramountly is a word, but it should be just for the point i'm trying to make.

 

[Rock Paper Sissons]

Now before, I get anything thrown in my face, I am a Nichushkin fan. I actually highly coveted him in his draft class and would like to see him in Preds gold if there was a deal to be made.

With that said, like has been mentioned, why would we trade our best defensive prospect, arguably best overall prospect (in the conversation w/ Fiala & Saros) for a kid that has 64 points in his 2 full seasons of work? He plays with talented guys, when he's not being moved around to the 3rd line by Lindy, you'd think for a top 10 pick there would be slightly more production with the talent that Dallas has through the lineup. Fiala, could put up 14 goals in a season, he just hasn't had the chance yet.

Yes, he's 21 and has tons of room to grow, but he's already unhappy with his situation in Dallas, has been linked to the KHL because of said unhappiness. I know there have been reports that refute that and that he wants to stay in the NHL but on top of our best C prospect, you're throwing in our 2nd best defensive prospect. I know it would take a good offer to get him, but take Kamenev out.

I'd entertain a deal with Dougherty involved, but not both. Wilson + possibly and that's to move the contract.

And this is not horrible, nichushkin is the best prospect in this trade and has actually played in the nhl already. Go back up a few threads and read my long post as I am not reposting it for a fourth time. That's my logic and others understand it brother.

Kamenev may never even be a top 9 forward, stranger things have happened. It's laughable preds fans are counting on him as second line centre next year when he has yet to play a game and won't this year either baring injuries with our four centres.

 

[Rock Paper Sissons]

You know what, yeah nichushkin is such a big bust. Maybe we can just get him from Dallas for Patrik cehlin, he's probably gonna bolt to khl anyways and will never be a top six forward because he sucks defensively and doesn't "ooze" any talent. For 21 years old and he isn't leading the league in points yet. What a waste of a pick by the stars.

Good thing we got kamenev who's going to be such an insane stud, and Dougherty who's gonna take out one of our top four defense who's all locked up for years to come.

Our future rests solely on getting a second line centre so kamenev is the guy, he will probably get 55 points next season. The sky is the limit. We don't need a Russian bum.

What was I thinking!

Jarnkrok probably gets 30 goals and 40 assists this year and doesn't slow down our first line; in fact he will probably be the key to first line success.

 

[thecloser]

If you think Jarnkrok on first line is better than nichushkin that tells me all I need to know about your knowledge. Do a little research on nichushkin bro.

didn't think this one through.

Jarnkrok had 30 points and 16 goals last year.

Nich had 29 points and 9 goals last year.

Research.

 

[Mustard]

And this is not horrible, nichushkin is the best prospect in this trade and has actually played in the nhl already. Go back up a few threads and read my long post as I am not reposting it for a fourth time. That's my logic and others understand it brother.

Kamenev may never even be a top 9 forward, stranger things have happened. It's laughable preds fans are counting on him as second line centre next year when he has yet to play a game and won't this year either baring injuries with our four centres. Having Jarnkrok on first line with ryjo and Neal is a joke.

I think the biggest disagreement is that most fans -- Stars and Preds alike -- don't see Nich as good as you think he is. Even if he does turn out to be great, in this situation, I'd rather have a balanced top 2 lines than a loaded first and mediocre second. Using your logic, if Kamenev may never be a top 9 forward, Nich may never be a consistent NHLer. Our argument is that it's unwise to trade very highly rated prospects in Kamenev and Dougherty for anyone who's short of a slam-dunk first line player -- even then, it has to be the right situation. Nich is no shoe-in; I don't think there's any tangible argument for his talent other that his draft number. I'm all for subjectivity, but "oozes talent" and "flashes" aren't an a good enough sell for me in my time watching him.

You could be completely right and Nich could be a 1LW in a few years. But, given his grey potential and our (IMO, more important) 2C needs, we need what we already have, more. With Joey and Neal's talent alone on the first line I'd rather have a Jarnkrok there as a support player at 1LW and a good 2C than a loaded first line. Balance > front loading, is more important in today's league, IMO.

 

[thecloser]

You know what, yeah nichushkin is such a big bust. Maybe we can just get him from Dallas for Patrik cehlin, he's probably gonna bolt to khl anyways and will never be a top six forward because he sucks defensively and doesn't "ooze" any talent. For 21 years old and he isn't leading the league in points yet. What a waste of a pick by the stars.

Good thing we got kamenev who's going to be such an insane stud, and Dougherty who's gonna take out one of our top four defense who's all locked up for years to come.

Our future rests solely on getting a second line centre so kamenev is the guy, he will probably get 55 points next season. The sky is the limit. We don't need a Russian bum.

What was I thinking!

Jarnkrok probably gets 30 goals and 40 assists this year and doesn't slow down our first line; in fact he will probably be the key to first line success.

you should probably watch Kamenev before denouncing anything he might do in a full season of work. Preds fans aren't the only people that are high on this kid. Preds management see him as an answer too.

You're getting too hurt over people presenting an argument to you with more logic.

numbers don't lie. Jarnkrok and Nich are about even for last years production. See my previous post. in fact if it's goal totals you're after, Jarnkrok had 16 vs. Nichushkin's 9. Jarnkrok doesn't have the potential that Nichushkin does, you're right, but potential doesn't mean anything unless it's actually put forth with effort and comes to surface.

Stars fans have made note of his demotions, bad defensive play, etc, etc. On top of that, I said Wilson +.

Dallas might not even want more prospects, consider that? They want NHL players too. My problem here with what your saying is that good teams draft well and turn those players into actual NHL players. Anything you could have or should have read on preds prospects and this upcoming year or next year (meaning after this upcoming season), Kamenev is in most of the talk. It actually circles around Fiala, Kamenev, Saros, and Trenin. You need to let these guys that are highly touted get a shot. If Kamenev blows, then you'll see some preds fans probably side with you. But using "they haven't played an NHL game yet" is not a good reasoning to trade someone. We've brought Kamenev along the correct way....getting him used to NA ice...letting him grow....on top of that, he's been behind guys that we've been trying or signing at center. At some point you have to let them become developed and give them that chance at a spot in the NHL. Kamenev will get that spot...in Preds Gold, not Stars Green.

 

[ThirdManIn]

He's not on a crazy offensive line. He got bounced around and then at the end ended up with Janmark and Spezza. Sure Spezza is good but Janmark is no offensive wiz, about on par with Nichushkin

But if he is no offensive wiz himself that should say we don't need to give up what the OP offered to get him.

 

[ThirdManIn]

You know what, yeah nichushkin is such a big bust. Maybe we can just get him from Dallas for Patrik cehlin, he's probably gonna bolt to khl anyways and will never be a top six forward because he sucks defensively and doesn't "ooze" any talent. For 21 years old and he isn't leading the league in points yet. What a waste of a pick by the stars.

Good thing we got kamenev who's going to be such an insane stud, and Dougherty who's gonna take out one of our top four defense who's all locked up for years to come.

Our future rests solely on getting a second line centre so kamenev is the guy, he will probably get 55 points next season. The sky is the limit. We don't need a Russian bum.

What was I thinking!

Jarnkrok probably gets 30 goals and 40 assists this year and doesn't slow down our first line; in fact he will probably be the key to first line success.

Sarcasm isn't helping you strengthen your case. Not in the least. People have real issues with what you are presenting. If you cannot handle that, tweaking your proposal or giving new reasons for the existing proposal would help much more than the above.

 

[WhatWhat]

But if he is no offensive wiz himself that should say we don't need to give up what the OP offered to get him.

I was saying it in the sense that people keep talking like he is stapled yo Benn and Seguin while not producing. He is not, and while 30 points isn't huge it's also far from terrible for someone who didn't get PP time. Also Janmark is 2 years older with more pro experience.

As for the talk of the value, Preds fans are talking like they wouldn't do it for need reasons but from a stars perspective, ignoring need I wouldn't do it if you consider need it's even worse for us

 

[Mustard]

And not to pile on again, but "You try and make a proposal" is not a very strong logical defense. We can all make up some silly trades and get bashed for them; that's easy. It IS hard to make good trades in this league that both teams and fan bases will agree on. That's why GM's make the big bucks and we watch from our couches. But when it comes to making a good proposal for good discussion on here, it helps to have objective reasoning that are supported by logical, subjective thoughts while considering both team's immediate and future needs. If you think something makes sense, you're completely entitled to your opinion. But, it's usually a good indicator that it may be a bad proposal when both fan bases unanimously rip your trade proposals. It happens, but sarcasm and illogical arguments won't help your defense. It's often better to vet them through the teams' forums first. Folks are frustrated with this thread because you are getting defensive over a losing argument. Don't take it personally, just consider more thought when making proposals and more concrete defenses is all we're trying to say.

 

[Rock Paper Sissons]

didn't think this one through.

Jarnkrok had 30 points and 16 goals last year.

Nich had 29 points and 9 goals last year.

Research.

Check age as well.


Also: I guess we could trade smith to Sabres for Reinhardt as their point total were pretty close as well last season.

I'm done, I've made my valid points why the trade would make sense. We do need a number two centre but it won't be kamenev for years to come. We need a first line winger even more so as right now we have ribeiro for second line centre and nobody for first line wing.

Maybe one day hf will have a fair proposal.
I find a lot of trades happen and people here are stunned lol, real life is not hf. Anyways, cheers everyone thanks for seeing both sides.

 

[Byrddog]

Forsberg plays second line with ribeiro and smith. Laviolette doesn't want to throw forsberg Neal and ryjo together than have no other lines that can score for the life of them. Hence why we need a first line winger because rinne is getting close to being done in net. So it's either win now or get w new younger goalie.
I do not see any other potential top line wingers available that we could acquire without moving one of the big four defense so I thought nichushkin was a great option as I said I see him as a massive breakout player in the immediate future. The kid oozes talent and already plays in the stats top six.

Doesn't anyone read previous posts before just commenting?! I feel like a broken record at times.

I have had many disagreements with you over the years but you are spot on about the current staus of the Preds. And while a trade with Dallas would probably not make much difference in this team. It is pretty apparent that Poile is done and there will be no big shiney trophy in the near or foreseeable future for Nashville. I am done with hoping for it and im moving on.

There are those so damn sure Kamenev is the second coming well these are the same damn people who were so damn sure Austin Watson was our 1st line center until the last two years. And you are 100% right about the LW spot on the top line if FF9 is not there there is none. And if he is not on the 2nd line it is just terribad. The third loine now with Fish and a couple raggamuffins and a 4th line of mixamatch young guys and poof the Preds are gonna make a cup run.

This team right now is so dfamn over rated its not even funny. And if Rinne does slip again which is a real good possibility now there going to be lucky to hang on to a wild card spot. But I refuse to get that invested. MAybe Rinne will go down early along with Fish Riberio and Fiala, Kamenev and Saro's can all be put into the line-up like so many of the posters here want. By Jan 1 they would be rolling out the tank for the number 1 pick banners. Outside Neal, Johanson, Forsberg this team is not very offensively talented and those three can not carry the whole team.

 

[Rock Paper Sissons]

Just a though.

Would pred fans rather trade fiala and ekholm for jvr?

Or take a chance on an a level prospect like Nich for someone like kamenev? You won't get a guy like nichushkin without giving. What else would you offer for him? Dougherty and cehlin? Cuz Dallas would do that.

Whole point of this was to try to get a guy that is very young with loads of talent and could crack top six easily without moving any of our top four defense or fiala.

We are a lot more heavy on defense prospects with last draft as well.

Anyways, I won't make anymore proposals, sorry I ruined some people's day. Cheers all

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Just a though.

Would pred fans rather trade fiala and ekholm for jvr?

Or take a chance on an a level prospect like Nich for someone like kamenev?

I'd rather do neither and just give Fiala a chance.

 

[Soundgarden]

There are those so damn sure Kamenev is the second coming well these are the same damn people who were so damn sure Austin Watson was our 1st line center until the last two years. And you are 100% right about the LW spot on the top line if FF9 is not there there is none. And if he is not on the 2nd line it is just terribad. The third loine now with Fish and a couple raggamuffins and a 4th line of mixamatch young guys and poof the Preds are gonna make a cup run.

Those of us counting on Kamenev realize that we have to replace Fisher and Riberio in the next few years, and if Kamenev is 75-85% likely to be a 2nd liner and 99% likely to be at best a 3rd liner then we only have to find one center in the next year or two. Nichushkin doesn't do as much as Kamenev would potentially do for us and he doesn't fill a bigger hole than Kamenev would.

Just a though.

Would pred fans rather trade fiala and ekholm for jvr?

Or take a chance on an a level prospect like Nich for someone like kamenev? You won't get a guy like nichushkin without giving. What else would you offer for him? Dougherty and cehlin? Cuz Dallas would do that.

Whole point of this was to try to get a guy that is very young with loads of talent and could crack top six easily without moving any of our top four defense or fiala.

We are a lot more heavy on defense prospects with last draft as well.

Anyways, I won't make anymore proposals, sorry I ruined some people's day. Cheers all

Never, but they aren't mutually exclusive. If they were both on the table I'd do neither, because they don't improve the team without opening up glaring holes in this team.
Just because one is an awful trade doesn't mean we have to make a bad trade because it's better than giving up Ekholm and Fiala for JVR.

 

[Byrddog]

Those of us counting on Kamenev realize that we have to replace Fisher and Riberio in the next few years, and if Kamenev is 75-85% likely to be a 2nd liner and 99% likely to be at best a 3rd liner then we only have to find one center in the next year or two. Nichushkin doesn't do as much as Kamenev would potentially do for us and he doesn't fill a bigger hole than Kamenev would.



Never, but they aren't mutually exclusive. If they were both on the table I'd do neither, because they don't improve the team without opening up glaring holes in this team.

Yeah well we heard the same **** about Watson being a 1C until he was finally moved to wing in the AHL. We have also heard as recent as last year about Wilson being moved back to center he was supposed to be at worst a 2C in most peoples eyes. The thing is Kamenev is a prospect. Just like Fiala is a prospect that is going to be forced on to the team this year and boy if that guy busts there is no back-up plan.

There are already too many guys on the team with less than 3 years in the league and planning to replace Fish, Riberio, and Rinne with more kids in diapers will not turn out well for you guys.

 

[Soundgarden]

Yeah well we heard the same **** about Watson being a 1C until he was finally moved to wing in the AHL. We have also heard as recent as last year about Wilson being moved back to center he was supposed to be at worst a 2C in most peoples eyes. The thing is Kamenev is a prospect. Just like Fiala is a prospect that is going to be forced on to the team this year and boy if that guy busts there is no back-up plan.

There are already too many guys on the team with less than 3 years in the league and planning to replace Fish, Riberio, and Rinne with more kids in diapers will not turn out well for you guys.

All those guys have(had) the potential to be top 6 guys. Of course in hindsight Watson isn't a great pick, but I don't think anybody was claiming he would be the solution to our problems as no.1 center even two years ago.

Of course Wilson was a lot more disappointing being a top 10 draft pick and showing his actually potential in short spurts. I think everyone is finally giving up on him ever being more than a 50 point player.

Kamenev and Fiala may bust or end up being bottom six players, but we will need a 2nd and 3rd line center very soon, and having drafted a potential center a few years ago and expecting him to contribute a year from now is not out of the ordinary. There is a reason they are our best prospects.

 

[thecloser]

Check age as well.


Also: I guess we could trade smith to Sabres for Reinhardt as their point total were pretty close as well last season.

I'm done, I've made my valid points why the trade would make sense. We do need a number two centre but it won't be kamenev for years to come. We need a first line winger even more so as right now we have ribeiro for second line centre and nobody for first line wing.

Maybe one day hf will have a fair proposal.
I find a lot of trades happen and people here are stunned lol, real life is not hf. Anyways, cheers everyone thanks for seeing both sides.

age doesn't really have anything to do with it unless you are comparing a 30 odd year old and a 21 year old.

Also, never did I say trade Jarnkrok for Nichushkin because their point totals are similar or close. You made the statement that Jarnkrok on the 1st line was a joke and I am simply stating that it's really not when Jarny posted career totals being on that line.

Aside from that, I still fail to realize your logic on how Kamenev is "years" away. It's been stated by Poile that he will see games this year. How many? Who knows? Depends on injury and pure production from Fisher and Ribeiro. could be 5, could be 10, could be 20.

Kamenev isn't the "second coming" but he fills a need, whether that be the 2nd line or 3rd line center spot. Then like someone mentioned, we only have one spot to fill via trade or free agency at the end of next year.

Nichushkin could be a 1st liner, but right now he is not. Potential is over rated. It has to be used and transformed into talent that isn't flipped on and off. Look at Wilson, top 10 pick that we continually wait on to flip the switch and STAY consistent. The fact that you think Nichushkin is our answer to the top line and is the piece that would bring the stanley cup to Nashville is about 20-30 points off.

The biggest argument I have is that you state the reason to trade a player is because they haven't seen NHL time yet. Mention that to the Sharks fans about Timo Meier, Coyotes fans about Dylan Strome (taken 3rd OVR), Islanders fans about Michael Dal Colle (4th OVR), Preds fans about Kevin Fiala, Devils fans about Pavel Zacha, Panthers fans about Lawson Crouse, etc, etc. These players all have potential, but they are being developed and hope to be a key cog to their respective teams for years and years to come. Now before you say it, let me. Kamenev was taken in the second round. He was also mentioned to be a potential 1st round pick. And to the Predators has just as much value as Fiala and some of these other prospects because of the position he plays and the need that position will create as soon as next year.

You have to have patience with drafted players. Very few outside of the top 5 or top 3 just step into the league and make a huge step. There are other avenues to be taken here....this one was just failed because of your proposal being 2 of our top 5 prospects in terms of readiness and talent flipped for a 39 point player. Regardless of age and potential, Nichushkin is what he is, a 39 point player, with a lack of defensive responsibility and can't seem to find a line he fits in with. Now maybe with more power play time and a change of scenery he becomes something greater than what he is....but right now, Poile isn't going to take the chance of trading our #1 Center prospect (who is most likely 1 year away from full time duty) and #2 defensive prospect for another winger. If said winger was a 50-60 point producer and in the age range of 21-25 or 26, MAYBE. But only maybe.

 

[thecloser]

Yeah well we heard the same **** about Watson being a 1C until he was finally moved to wing in the AHL. We have also heard as recent as last year about Wilson being moved back to center he was supposed to be at worst a 2C in most peoples eyes. The thing is Kamenev is a prospect. Just like Fiala is a prospect that is going to be forced on to the team this year and boy if that guy busts there is no back-up plan.

There are already too many guys on the team with less than 3 years in the league and planning to replace Fish, Riberio, and Rinne with more kids in diapers will not turn out well for you guys.

you're a preds fan byrd. get over it. doom and gloom, doom and gloom. The league is getting younger. it's a different league now.

 

[Gh24]

Maplepred you're getting way too ******** by people disagreeing with you.

Valid arguments have been made on if this trade would be good for us or not, so I'm not going there anymore, but would like to remind you that Dallas is trying to win the cup aswell and would probably rather add pieces that could contribute right away or soon anyway.

Someone said they got enough young C, so they're not particulary interested in another. That in mind, Stars management would probably rather see if Nichushkin develops to replace Sharp (I believe it's questionable if they can keep him or not?).

Wilson, as suggested by ThirdManIn I think, would make more sense to them. Fiala and Nichushkin could fight for 1LW spot, other one slotting into 3rd with Fisher and Jarnkrok.

Idk what's a fair price thought. Depends how high Stars sees Nichushkin I guess....

 

[Troy McClure]

Wilson, as suggested by ThirdManIn I think, would make more sense to them. Fiala and Nichushkin could fight for 1LW spot, other one slotting into 3rd with Fisher and Jarnkrok.

Keep in mind, Nichushkin has barely played any LW, and when he did he looked completely lost.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

If a top 6 wing is truly that big a need (and I say top 6 because Forsberg actually is our other 1st line winger) we can simply sign Hudler and forego having to give up any other assets.

All this bickering also ignores Dallas fans aren't interested in the deal anyway, not because Nichushkin is so talented they are unwilling to trade him mind you (which is telling in and of itself), but because the deal does nothing to improve their roster now.

 

[Gh24]

Keep in mind, Nichushkin has barely played any LW, and when he did he looked completely lost.

The way this thread developed I didn't put any thought in his preferred wing or anything. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[Byrddog]

you're a preds fan byrd. get over it. doom and gloom, doom and gloom. The league is getting younger. it's a different league now.

From 1980 to 1998 I pulled for the Oilers and the Flyers and Pulled for the Preds from day one. I have maybe another 10 years before im on the other side of the grass and I want to enjoy a team lifting the cup once again. While I have been encouraged over the last couple of years of the caliber of talent Poile landed he has not finished the job. The defense is pretty complete top 4 and Pekka has been solid but Neal, Johanson, Forsberg are just not enough on that side of it for me to invest more into this team. During the last four years I have been watching just as much of the Sabres and Lightning but when they played the Preds I still pulled for the Preds not this season. Don't get me wrong I will pull for the Preds to beat most teams.

And while I can agree with you that the game is changing becoming a quicker more skilled game half of that equation is missed on Poiles team. Look at the young guys on Tampa's roster and for that matter Buffalo's they are more skilled than those Poile has coming up not named Forsberg. Being just good enough to get into the playoffs for such a long period has soured me on this team. Each team has a player or two I do not like that is just the way it is. And it would have sure been nice if Poile had made the effort to finish the team off since he did move one guy I did not really care for and added one I do like alot. But again I have a limited number of years left to experience another SC winning team and it has been a LONG time since The OIL gave me that excitement. I am seen as doom and gloom and thats fine but all I want is a team to pull out all stops and go for it. Well yet again Poile has not. Even if he did it would not have meant a final appearance but not doing it pretty much assured me another flame out. Look to the west a couple hundred miles That bunch has done all they could a number of times including last year and since there inception in 1967 they have never won the cup. So I will pull for the Bolts who are ready followed by the Sabres who will be ready for a run in a couple more years.