Confirmed with Link: [DAL/NYR] Zuccarello (30% retained) for 2019 2nd (Cond 1st*,) & 2020 3rd (Cond 1st**)

[Jaromir Jagr]

The more I think about this trade the more I dislike it. Disclaimer: I’ve had a few beers. That said, I’ve been a big supporter of Gorton, but I think he blew this one.

I'm really confused by the continous blame you and others place on Gorton. There were very likely two scenarios here:

1. Keep Zucc for the rest of an already lost season and hope to re-sign him (not necessarily a sure thing depending on what he was asking).

2. Take the best offer on the table (which I assume he did - although maybe some rival team offered slightly more and he didn't want to send Zucc in division for fear of his re-signing there).

There was almost certainly not some fantasy third option where Gorton waves a magic wand gets some great prospect and/or high(er) pick(s) back. Gorton is not a moron, for all you might like to think. And these kinds of trades are not rocket science. It comes down to whether you are moving the guy or not and then taking the best offer there is.

Moreover, the whole league knew Gorton needs to move these guys. That's what sucking/rebuilds do. It forces you into a bind because older UFA's are almost certainly not worth keeping, thus they need to be moved. Gorton has very little leverage here other than pitting teams against each other. And it's quite obvious that the market this year is saturated.

I don't think GM's really prove themselves when selling players because selling is easy -- you take what you can get. GM's prove their skill through drafting, development and trades that are not sales, but 'hockey trades' or when buying for the playoffs.

Also, everyone on this board overrates Zucc because he's a fan favorite. He's a 2nd line winger, who is a UFA and on the wrong side of 30.

 

[Gardner McKay]

My problem with this trade is if this was the best offer I don’t see the need to have made it today instead of waiting closer to the deadline.

And the two conditions are exceedingly unlikely. Dallas probably has around a 8% chance to make the WCF. And I’d give the second condition 0% chance since it doesn’t make sense for them to sign him with it costing a first.

Gorton obviously felt this was his best offer. Why wait and risk something happening that would change Dallas’ mind?

People lambast the GM for waiting too long to make deals. Now he didn’t wait long enough?

For a guy that we knew all season long was going to be dealt, a guy that had a poor start, a guy that plays a position where there is trade competition from the likes of Stone and Simmonds, a guy where JG even said the ask was a second and a prospect, I fail to see where the outrage over conditional second and third rounders.

Do I think he for sure signs with Dallas? No. But, as I’ve said before, you need to stop looking at these deals with NHL 19 eyes. From an ownership perspective, a 2020 first could be very much worth re-signing Zucc if they feel he will help them stay in the POs for a few years. They aren’t the Rangers or Leafs. They need playoff revenue. They need asses in seats. Winning helps and Zucc should help them win. I think totally discounting Zuccarello re-signing in Dallas is a very foolish and short sighted take.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I love Zucc as much as the next Rangers fan. But this was a pretty decent trade for us and has the potential to become a great one should one of those conditions be met. If both are met, it's an absolute home-run.

Regardless, it's a good deal for a team rebuilding. Zucc has no value to this team anymore. I know that hurts to hear, but it's the truth. By the time this team is ready to compete, Zucc will be nearing his late 30's.

 

[Nickmo82]

Here's hoping Zucc likes Texas, because I have my doubts they'll make it to the WCF.

 

[Fvital92]

I'm disappointed. Basically this.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

What a disgusting return. Leaving our chances up to - quite frankly - a shit team is pathetic on a player that is overvalued but still very impactful.

When does Gorton’s invisibility cloak wear off? Evidently it has got a nice durability on it. Can think of 1-2 good trades he has made in his tenure with NYR.

“BUT HE BUILT BOSTON FELLAS”

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I love Zucc as much as the next Rangers fan. But this was a pretty decent trade for us and has the potential to become a great one should one of those conditions be met. If both are met, it's an absolute home-run.

Regardless, it's a good deal for a team rebuilding. Zucc has no value to this team anymore. I know that hurts to hear, but it's the truth. By the time this team is ready to compete, Zucc will be nearing his late 30's.

This trade does almost nothing for our rebuild. We just traded away our top scorer in 4 out of last 6 seasons for insignificant return.

 

[WeRa]

The prediction was 2nd round pick and a prospect.
We have conditional 2nd round and conditional 3rd round picks... IMO it's almost the same.
It looks like not very good trade, but if one of this conditions turned into a 1st round pick, it will be very good trade - for our rebuild mode.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

This trade does almost nothing for our rebuild. We just traded away our top scorer in 4 out of last 6 seasons for insignificant return.

You are arguably the most pessimistic poster on this forum, so I wouldn't expect you to rationalize this in any sort of logical way.

Zucc has no worth to the future of this team. What he did the past few seasons is irrelevant. Moreover, just because he was our 'top scorer' means nothing. He's a second line winger. That doesn't change because our scoring the past few years was pathetic.

And how can you say 'this does nothing for our rebuild?' Do you have a crystal ball? We have no idea who the Rangers pick. What if it ends up being another Stepan? We have no idea if they'll end up being first rounders. We have no idea if the Rangers will package them in a trade for something more.

You're literally just spitting fire because you're upset, which I can sympathize with. But saying this does 'nothing for the rebuild' is completely nonsensical.

 

[fredrikstad]

That’s it? Talk about getting shafted.

What doe's that 30% retained means? Do Rangers have to pay some of his salary? If so, will ut affect the total cap hit? Look like JG has gone a bit low here. And last, what are the pros and cones living in Dallas?

 

[mike14]

So come July 1, can the Stars just ask another team to sign Zucc to already agreed upon contract and then just trade a 2020 2nd for him?

 

[ETTER DE]

Norway`s largest newspaper has this article online today:
Nå forsvinner Zuccarello: - Klarer ikke å holde tårene tilbake

Near the end of it, a norwegian hockey expert answer a question about the latest negotiations between Zuuc and Rangers.
Q: "Do you feel it would be wise from Rangers to give him a 5y/5 million contract?"
A: "As far as I know Zuuc did not demand a five year contract. He would naturally want a 5 or 6 year deal, but that it was an absolutely demand, I think that is wrong. I think this is propaganda from Rangers. To make it easier for the fans to accept trading him. The reason i believe this is that the person who leaked about the negotiations didnt say anything about what Rangers were offering. That tells me there has not been any real negotiations."

 

[Inferno]

What doe's that 30% retained means? Do Rangers have to pay some of his salary? If so, will ut affect the total cap hit? Look like JG has gone a bit low here. And last, what are the pros and cones living in Dallas?

...

Rangers pay 30% or his remaining salary this year
Doesn't make a difference to us.
He got the best deal available.
I lived in Dallas for a while. It's nice but everything is spread way the eff out. Even worse than here in Atlanta. Nice city tho.

 

[Glennsoe]

So we're looking at a 7 week/25 game feel out period for zucc and the stars to see if it's a fit..

Dallas could be looking to dump salary next season, spezza is expected to leave, so there could be room for zuke..

Not sure if NYR has the best offer on the table in the summer if he doesn't resign with Dallas

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

You are arguably the most pessimistic poster on this forum, so I wouldn't expect you to rationalize this in any sort of logical way.

Zucc has no worth to the future of this team. What he did the past few seasons is irrelevant. Moreover, just because he was our 'top scorer' means nothing. He's a second line winger. That doesn't change because our scoring the past few years was pathetic.

And how can you say 'this does nothing for our rebuild?' Do you have a crystal ball? We have no idea who the Rangers pick. What if it ends up being another Stepan? We have no idea if they'll end up being first rounders. We have no idea if the Rangers will package them in a trade for something more.

You're literally just spitting fire because you're upset, which I can sympathize with. But saying this does 'nothing for the rebuild' is completely nonsensical.

I am not saying 2nd rounder is worthless, but Zucc was one of our finest tradeable assets and Gorton failed to get the right value in return to really help this rebuild. Gorton couldn't wrestle a good prospect away from the Stars? He couldn't include a lesser prospect fand have Stars include a better prospect?

 

[IamNotADancer]

Dallas makes the WC Finals, Zuccs leads them in points and to the Stanley Cup Finals where they will meet Tampa Bay, which then drops Dallas in 4 without breaking a sweat. McDonaugh lifts the Cup, Dallas is so impressed by Zuccs they re-sign him.

3 1st round picks headed our way..... ah... to live in fantasy land!

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I am not saying 2nd rounder is worthless, but Zucc was one of our finest tradeable assets and Gorton failed to get the right value in return to really help this rebuild. Gorton couldn't wrestle a good prospect away from the Stars? He couldn't include a lesser prospect fand have Stars include a better prospect?

I'm not going to re-write my entire post from a few up, but it states clearly that this existent fantasy notion of there having been some better deal Gorton could have wrangled is just ridiculous. It comes down to 'do we have to move him,' and clearly JG answered that with a resounding yes. After deciding that, then you take the best deal, regardless of what it is.

You also seriously seem to be misconstruing 'one of OUR most tradeable assets' with his league-wide perceived value. Zucc is not worth a top prospect. Should Ben Lovejoy have gotten more because he was one of the Devils most valuable trade assets? I mean, it doesn't work like that.

Zucc is a nice, rental piece. He is a nice mid-term piece for a contending team (hence the condition on the re-sign). He got exactly what he was worth. And to assume that JG could have just magically enhanced is value is not reality.

The only real argument against JG I see here is whether or not more was offered last deadline, or this summer. But we won't ever know that.

This is a good deal for the Rangers rebuild and potentially a very good one when all is said and done.

 

[ETTER DE]

Dallas makes the WC Finals, Zuccs leads them in points and to the Stanley Cup Finals where they will meet Tampa Bay, which then drops Dallas in 4 without breaking a sweat. McDonaugh lifts the Cup, Dallas is so impressed by Zuccs they re-sign him.

3 1st round picks headed our way..... ah... to live in fantasy land!

Or: Dallas does not make the playoffs. Zuuc has a long vacation with his model girlfriend. July 1st he agrees to a contract with the Devils.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I really like what another poster stated earlier in this thread about us living in an 'outrage society.' Before you react to something publicly, you should really take a deep breath and think about situations on their merits.

My first reaction when I saw this trade was disappointment, like many. But that was because we had been discussing in here larger returns and it's always hard to see a long-time fan favorite go, especially one with as great a personality as Zucc.

Yet, after thinking about it a little, this trade is pretty much spot on with what all experts had been believing to be Zucc's value in this saturated market. Additionally, the only logical move was for the Rangers to move him for whatever they can get. It will undoubtedly hurt to see Zucc (like many former Rangers before him) throw on another uniform. But this was a sensible move by a team that is just not in place to hold on to an aging UFA like him.

After seeing the conditions, I actually think this was a really good move. Although neither may come to fruition, the perception was that Zucc was not worth a first. JG was able to add conditions on both picks to becoming first. I think had it been just a 2nd and a 3rd without the conditions, it wouldn't be awful. But to add the conditions, gives it at least the chance to be a very good win for the Rangers.

 

[JCProdigy]

My reaction? Eh.

I'm disappointed that they didn't get more back without conditions but that's on me as I'd guess this was the best offer out there for this particulary 30+, FA right winger. I don't know how I could judge Gorton on the return on any specific trades at the deadline when I am ignorant to all that went into it (negotiations, other suitors, etc.) I take every piece of rumor that comes out with huge grain of salt. I just can't see getting all pissed off over something that I don't know the whole story on.

In other words, for me to bash Gorton on this trade would be the equivalent to looking at this:

...and saying "This is the ugliest picture of a dog that I've ever seen!

The Zucc trade are those three pieces in the upper right hand corner. The Hayes trade would be a couple more pieces. Who they get in the draft will be a couple more pieces that fills in the picture. Ultimately Gorton will be judged in a couple of years on how the picture looks when it's almost done.

 

[ETTER DE]

"

"Ultimately Gorton will be judged in a couple of years on how the picture looks when it's almost done."

Have no problem with the return for Zuuc. Harder to believe that Gorton will be GM in a couple of years.​

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I'm not going to re-write my entire post from a few up, but it states clearly that this existent fantasy notion of there having been some better deal Gorton could have wrangled is just ridiculous. It comes down to 'do we have to move him,' and clearly JG answered that with a resounding yes. After deciding that, then you take the best deal, regardless of what it is.

You also seriously seem to be misconstruing 'one of OUR most tradeable assets' with his league-wide perceived value. Zucc is not worth a top prospect. Should Ben Lovejoy have gotten more because he was one of the Devils most valuable trade assets? I mean, it doesn't work like that.

Zucc is a nice, rental piece. He is a nice mid-term piece for a contending team (hence the condition on the re-sign). He got exactly what he was worth. And to assume that JG could have just magically enhanced is value is not reality.

The only real argument against JG I see here is whether or not more was offered last deadline, or this summer. But we won't ever know that.

This is a good deal for the Rangers rebuild and potentially a very good one when all is said and done.

Take the best deal is what bad GMs do. Good GMs create/organize the best deals possible for their teams. We did not get close to what he is worth, that is why this deal had those dumb conditions.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

"

"Ultimately Gorton will be judged in a couple of years on how the picture looks when it's almost done."

Have no problem with the return for Zuuc. Harder to believe that Gorton will be GM in a couple of years.​

why?

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Dallas makes the WC Finals, Zuccs leads them in points and to the Stanley Cup Finals where they will meet Tampa Bay, which then drops Dallas in 4 without breaking a sweat. McDonaugh lifts the Cup, Dallas is so impressed by Zuccs they re-sign him.

3 1st round picks headed our way..... ah... to live in fantasy land!

then we draft 3 busts and the world makes sense again.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Take the best deal is what bad GMs do. Good GMs create/organize the best deals possible for their teams. We did not get close to what he is worth, that is why this deal had those dumb conditions.

How do you know that he didn't do that with this deal? You, like all of us, have absolutely no idea what the initial offer was from Dallas or what other teams were offering. Maybe the other teams weren't offering even conditional firsts. Maybe Dallas wasn't from the start and he got that added.

You are literally making things up to try to prove your opinion that JG is a bad GM.

'We did not get close to what he is worth?' -- Why are you saying this? Literally every expert and analyst under the sun said he was worth '2nd + prospect.' And mind you, not a good prospect, just average prospect. So in your opinion the Rangers didn't get fair value for him. But your opinion is also severely biased due to your attachment to Zucc.

The Rangers got the widely perceived value for Zucc + added conditions that could make the ultimate deal much better than what was expected.