Prospect Info: (D) Nolan Allan - 2021 32nd Overall

[BobbyJet]

Murphy won’t be here by the time Allan is ready. McCabe might not either.

And I think that his young age isnt given enough consideration here. Hawks scouting is banking on his growth as he enters his late teens
...both physically and as a hockey player. Last season was essentially a write off.
As I said, I look forward to witnessing Allan's progress as he enters a full season in Junior but it will be several years before he can be fully evaluated.

 

[ClydeLee]

If you watch him play, he doesn't actually do these things.

Feel free to quote whatever media outlets that say otherwise and regurgitate each other's info.

But I'm telling you right now he doesn't and that's a fact.

From these reports from several scouts but data tracking by Mitchell Brown.

Collected here cause some of its patreon access. onlyhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.secondcityhockey.com/platform/amp/2021/7/25/22592380/chicago-blackhawks-2021-nhl-draft-first-round-pick-no-32-pick-nolan-allan-scouting-report-analysis

And it had different results looking though some of his WHL and the WJC games. But not even for a shorter game stretch is that type of consistent defensive success there for a young prospect that isn't good defensively.

 

[BobbyJet]

I think I understand your last sentence.That's a thorough analysis above. Thankyou for sharing.

 

[Giovi]

What do you see in Allan that we can't get in Beaudin, Mitchell, Kalynuk, Stillman, Kaiser, Phillips, Vlasic, Regula, Demin, Crevier?

Because I sure as hell fail to see anything unique.

If you don't see the difference between Mitchells strengths and Allans strengths, there is absolutely no hope for you.

 

[Giovi]

From these reports from several scouts but data tracking by Mitchell Brown.

Collected here cause some of its patreon access. onlyhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.secondcityhockey.com/platform/amp/2021/7/25/22592380/chicago-blackhawks-2021-nhl-draft-first-round-pick-no-32-pick-nolan-allan-scouting-report-analysis

And it had different results looking though some of his WHL and the WJC games. But not even for a shorter game stretch is that type of consistent defensive success there for a young prospect that isn't good defensively.

Good read, thanks.

Yet another source that directly conflicts with Mustos take on Allan. And pretty much every source that does conflict with Musto is far more reputable than him.

 

[Giovi]

And on the subject, it's not so much defending Musto, but I personally think it's funny to dismiss a guy's opinion as bullshit who does way more studying on the subject than you do. Like choose between two opinions - where one is formulated after extensive work and the other isn't at all, which one is more likely to hold more weight?

When I call out Musto on his opinion, it's not so much because it conflicts with mine. It's because it conflicts with the opinions of professional talent evaluators. All of which have done as much or more work on the subject as Musto has.

 

[Muffinalt]

When I call out Musto on his opinion, it's not so much because it conflicts with mine. It's because it conflicts with the opinions of professional talent evaluators. All of which have done as much or more work on the subject as Musto has.

I think he's too harsh on guys he doesn't like and too high on ones he does.

But to be fair there is a lot of group talk and superficial analysis with the public lists, beyond the first or second round specifically.

I don't know what Allan ends up at. Nobody will for few years. I cant critique any of the opinions with absolute certainty for that reason exactly.

 

[BobbyJet]

I think he's too harsh on guys he doesn't like and too high on ones he does.

But to be fair there is a lot of group talk and superficial analysis with the public lists, beyond the first or second round specifically.

I don't know what Allan ends up at. Nobody will for few years. I cant critique any of the opinions with absolute certainty for that reason exactly.

Yeah.....group talk based almost exclusively from what they've read from reputable sources...and they ALL contradict him. Way to sit on the fence though.

 

[Giovi]

I think he's too harsh on guys he doesn't like and too high on ones he does.

But to be fair there is a lot of group talk and superficial analysis with the public lists, beyond the first or second round specifically.

I don't know what Allan ends up at. Nobody will for few years. I cant critique any of the opinions with absolute certainty for that reason exactly.

But that's exactly what he's doing. And given a choice between relying on reputable professionals and him, I'll take the professionals 10 times out of 10. Especially given how far he's been off the mark on some of his takes, and how he can never, ever modify his take when reality contradicts it.

 

[Pez68]

I've seen you say this so many times by now. If you want to use this logic, then it's not tabooing that's happening, it's just calling out your bullshit.

It's an incredibly flawed logic, because everytime you assume youre opinion and stance is 100% correct and 'so you're just calling out bad takes'. Delusional.

And on the subject, it's not so much defending Musto, but I personally think it's funny to dismiss a guy's opinion as bullshit who does way more studying on the subject than you do. Like choose between two opinions - where one is formulated after extensive work and the other isn't at all, which one is more likely to hold more weight?

Entirely different story when it's a discussion with actual counter points, differing ideas etc. But so many times here it's just 'lol' 'imagine blabla' 'do you even hockey' instead of a normal discussion... That's not 'calling out bullshit opinions' at all.

It's the internet. If you want to pretend to be an expert, back it the f*** up with your credentials, and WHY we should listen to you. Over people paid to do this. Over scouts with a track record for drafting NHL talent. If you're going to post hot takes, then you better be able to back those up.

You know jack shit about Musto. He's never given any background on WHY we should give a shit about his opinion. The guy just posts f***ing meme worthy shit most of the time, and his track record when it comes to talent evaluation is shit.

So, lol

Imagine thinking you know more than the guys paid to do this for a living as a meme warrior on the internet.

 

[Styles]

It's the internet. If you want to pretend to be an expert, back it the f*** up with your credentials, and WHY we should listen to you. Over people paid to do this. Over scouts with a track record for drafting NHL talent. If you're going to post hot takes, then you better be able to back those up.

You know jack shit about Musto. He's never given any background on WHY we should give a shit about his opinion. The guy just posts f***ing meme worthy shit most of the time, and his track record when it comes to talent evaluation is shit.

So, lol

Imagine thinking you know more than the guys paid to do this for a living as a meme warrior on the internet.

The guys “paid to do it” are the same guys you probably shit on left and right for bad hockey takes. Powers and Laz are paid to give hockey opinions but would you actually take it with a grain of salt? Yeah, didn’t think so. Who are the credible guys you are looking at to give good opinions? What scouts are you looking at? Give me sources. Blah blah blah

 

[BobbyJet]

Laz and Powers are fans
...scouts are pros who evaluate talent for a living. There is a big difference.

 

[Giovi]

It's the internet. If you want to pretend to be an expert, back it the f*** up with your credentials, and WHY we should listen to you. Over people paid to do this. Over scouts with a track record for drafting NHL talent. If you're going to post hot takes, then you better be able to back those up.

You know jack shit about Musto. He's never given any background on WHY we should give a shit about his opinion. The guy just posts f***ing meme worthy shit most of the time, and his track record when it comes to talent evaluation is shit.

So, lol

Imagine thinking you know more than the guys paid to do this for a living as a meme warrior on the internet.

That's it, really. On one side you have guys who scout talent for a living saying Allans' defensive game is very solid. On the other, a guy who doesn't get paid to scout, has never shown a reason he should be believed over those other guys, and says Allan is a terrible hockey player.

So why are we supposed to believe Musto? Why are we not supposed to be able to point out this obvious conflict of opinions?

 

[Kevin Musto]

That's it, really. On one side you have guys who scout talent for a living saying Allans' defensive game is very solid. On the other, a guy who doesn't get paid to scout, has never shown a reason he should be believed over those other guys, and says Allan is a terrible hockey player.

So why are we supposed to believe Musto? Why are we not supposed to be able to point out this obvious conflict of opinions?

If I told you Michael Dal Colle was a bust in his draft year, you wouldn't have believed me because the "professionals" who are never wrong said he was elite.

 

[Giovi]

The guys “paid to do it” are the same guys you probably shit on left and right for bad hockey takes. Powers and Laz are paid to give hockey opinions but would you actually take it with a grain of salt? Yeah, didn’t think so. Who are the credible guys you are looking at to give good opinions? What scouts are you looking at? Give me sources. Blah blah blah

Resources I've read that all directly contradict Musto: Pronman, THN (print), Dobber, McKeens, Elite Prospects. I've read others that don't come to mind right now. Some of these are paid draft guides, some available if you google Nolan Allan.

 

[Giovi]

If I told you Michael Dal Colle was a bust in his draft year, you wouldn't have believed me because the "professionals" who are never wrong said he was elite.

I realize the professionals are sometimes wrong.

The professionals recognize they're sometimes wrong.

The only one in this whole debate that doesn't recognize they're sometimes wrong is you.

For you to come on here and try to put yourself above professional talent scouts (which you have done),without anything approaching any kind of credentials, is laughable.

Again, if you're so f***ing good, why aren't you doing it for a living? Most of the guys sitting in the stands, feeding info to the media and the teams, are guys who have played at a high level, often the NHL.

You put yourself above them. What are your credentials?

 

[clydesdale line]

Again, if you're so f***ing good, why aren't you doing it for a living? Most of the guys sitting in the stands, feeding info to the media and the teams, are guys who have played at a high level, often the NHL.

You put yourself above them. What are your credentials?

Because he thinks guys like Dylan Strome are generational talents.

 

[RayP]

Because he thinks guys like Dylan Strome are generational talents.

He lost credibility with me when he blamed Mitchell’s poor performance on management.


Sometimes you need to just admit you’re wrong, but not a lot of people are willing to do that these days.

 

[Muffinalt]

It's the internet. If you want to pretend to be an expert, back it the f*** up with your credentials, and WHY we should listen to you. Over people paid to do this. Over scouts with a track record for drafting NHL talent. If you're going to post hot takes, then you better be able to back those up.

You know jack shit about Musto. He's never given any background on WHY we should give a shit about his opinion. The guy just posts f***ing meme worthy shit most of the time, and his track record when it comes to talent evaluation is shit.

So, lol

Imagine thinking you know more than the guys paid to do this for a living as a meme warrior on the internet.

Actually I'm not even in this conversation coz of Musto. Clearly he exaggerates his takes (which some I agree with some I don't) so I never understood the silly outrage taking them at face value.

I commented coz I think it's so hypocritical some you are running judgement police on literally everything here, mostly third party opinions. Why does your first paragraph routinely not apply to you for example?

 

[Pez68]

The guys “paid to do it” are the same guys you probably shit on left and right for bad hockey takes. Powers and Laz are paid to give hockey opinions but would you actually take it with a grain of salt? Yeah, didn’t think so. Who are the credible guys you are looking at to give good opinions? What scouts are you looking at? Give me sources. Blah blah blah

Except I'm talking about ACTUAL SCOUTS. You know, the guys who decided to draft him? The guys scouting him???

 

[Kevin Musto]

He lost credibility with me when he blamed Mitchell’s poor performance on management.


Sometimes you need to just admit you’re wrong, but not a lot of people are willing to do that these days.

They did an awful job handling him. You're never supposed to bounce prospects back and forth between NHL and AHL. It never works.

They also stapled him to De Haan at the NHL level so he had no support.

And he got not PP time.

They set him up for failure.

 

[BobbyJet]

They did an awful job handling him. You're never supposed to bounce prospects back and forth between NHL and AHL. It never works.

They also stapled him to De Haan at the NHL level so he had no support.

And he got not PP time.

They set him up for failure.

All of Hawks young defense get the same treatment. It's a fallacy that anyone of them can't learn their trade in the AHL....and if they prove that they can play they stay up. As far as I'm concerned Mitchell should have spent the entire season in RFD.

 

[Pez68]

They did an awful job handling him. You're never supposed to bounce prospects back and forth between NHL and AHL. It never works.

They also stapled him to De Haan at the NHL level so he had no support.

And he got not PP time.

They set him up for failure.

And people wonder why he doesn't have any credibility? Prospects are bounced between the NHL and AHL constantly.

 

[Kevin Musto]

All of Hawks young defense get the same treatment.

And you wonder why the Hawks can't develop defensemen

 

[Giovi]

All of Hawks young defense get the same treatment. It's a fallacy that anyone of them can't learn their trade in the AHL....and if they prove that they can play they stay up. As far as I'm concerned Mitchell should have spent the entire season in RFD.

They gave him a chance to prove he was NHL ready. He wasn't even close physically or mentally. He needs a lot of time in the A.