D David Reinbacher - EHC Kloten, NL (2023, 5th, MTL)

[nergish]

My initial viewing came as Austria were prepping for the World Juniors ... I didn't see a one timer, great deception and/or playmaking and nothing overly physical...So I was unimpressed but I think it was German Spitfire that told me he has a first round rating so I went with that. Impossible to glean anything from the games in Halifax as Austria were so overwhelmed.

I liked his first two games of the Worlds.. saw a bit more of the skating and puck moving and a willingness to jump in. I can't say he's a lock of any kind.for stardom.. are we thinking an Adam Larsson? I suppose that would be pretty good. He's not Seider.He's not. .

This why I hope he is there at 11 for my Nucks. Does not scream top-10 talent to me, but we need a guy in blue & green that can play stable defense.

 

[JT3]

It’s a circus in here. I’m out.

They talk about how he isn't physical - entirely false. He uses his frame very well in the corners and loves to step up on guys while defending the rush. His gap control while defending is one of his biggest strengths.

They also talk about how most of his points come from secondary assists, which again, is entirely false. He had 12 primary assists to 7 secondary. This is easily verifiable through a Google search. These 'scouts' can't even correctly read or bother to look up a stat sheet, and yet you're relying on their assessment of a player?

You came in and dropped 'scouting reports' that have blatantly false info and got called out for it. And everybody else here is the problem somehow? Get real.

 

[rt]

They talk about how he isn't physical - entirely false. He uses his frame very well in the corners and loves to step up on guys while defending the rush. His gap control while defending is one of his biggest strengths.

They also talk about how most of his points come from secondary assists, which again, is entirely false. He had 12 primary assists to 7 secondary. This is easily verifiable through a Google search. These 'scouts' can't even correctly read or bother to look up a stat sheet, and yet you're relying on their assessment of a player?

You came in and dropped 'scouting reports' that have blatantly false info and got called out for it. And everybody else here is the problem somehow? Get real.

These are NHL scouts ya muppet.

There aren’t Reinbacher fans in here. It’s Reinbacher acolytes. Creepy.

 

[JT3]

These are NHL scouts ya muppet.

Hopefully not on my team, I would hope the Habs scouts can accurately tell the difference between primary and secondary assists. Cause these guys obviously can't.

 

[Hinterland]

These are NHL scouts ya muppet.

There aren’t Reinbacher fans in here. It’s Reinbacher acolytes. Creepy.

Hopefully not on my team, I would hope the Habs scouts can accurately tell the difference between primary and secondary assists. Cause these guys obviously can't.

These scouts don't exist though. It's all made up by the athletic clowns. It's the single biggest scam in the history of sports. But as long as there are enough idiots to pay for nonsense and fake news...whatever you wanna call it they do...it has very little in common with journalism.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

You need to reevaluate your perception of reality.

O

Of course it’s not made up. If you believe this is made up, you need some help. To talk to somebody.

These are NHL scouts ya muppet.

There aren’t Reinbacher fans in here. It’s Reinbacher acolytes. Creepy.

It’s a circus in here. I’m out.

What’s up with the personal attacks because someone disagrees with your proclamation? Don’t know what you have invested in this but the personal attacks are uncalled for.

As for the article, I think alot of people on HF are developing their own opinions on the players by watching them firsthand and not basing their opinions on what other people have to say as if it’s the bible.

There is no right or wrong answer when scouting. It’s part of the allure.

 

[rt]

What’s up with the personal attacks because someone disagrees with your proclamation? Don’t know what you have invested in this but the personal attacks are uncalled for.

As for the article, I think alot of people on HF are developing their own opinions on the players by watching them firsthand and not basing their opinions on what other people have to say as if it’s the bible.

There is no right or wrong answer when scouting. It’s part of the allure.

Look at this…

These scouts don't exist though. It's all made up by the athletic clowns. It's the single biggest scam in the history of sports. But as long as there are enough idiots to pay for nonsense and fake news...whatever you wanna call it they do...it has very little in common with journalism.

What am I supposed to do with that other than dismiss it as paranoid ravings? Tell me. I really want to know.

 

[MasterMatt25]

Praying Habs dont take him

 

[rt]

@GermanSpitfire

I think you somehow missed what’s happening here.

This poster said it’s “laughable” to say Reinbacher is a reach at 5th overall and that the prospects between 5-9 are interchangeable.

I provided links to articles by TSN’s Bob McKenzie and the Athletic’s Thomas Drance where they polled or interviewed NHL scouts for their opinions. See below:

 

[rt]

How is that saying NHL scouts opinions are the Bible? You’re putting words into my mouth. If 14 NHL scouts agree that Reinbacher is more like 10th overall, they can be wrong. Certainly. But it’s not “laughable”.

What’s “laughable” is somebody claiming that Thomas Drance and Bob McKenzie are only pretending to have scouting contacts and are making all of this up to trick people. That’s laughable. It’s crazy. That’s not a difference of opinion. It’s unhinged.

I’m not trying to play moderator here but perhaps Ignoring and moving along Is the best course of action, not everyone is going to agree with you.

I haven’t expected anyone to agree with me. Please try to follow along.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

completely disagree with some of Steve Kournianos statements:

1. Reinbacher has done significantly more than most of the forwards ranked in the top 10, BECAUSE he has been playing in a men's league, whereas the NA forwards played against kids.
2. Reinbacher was named third best D-Man in the Swiss Top League. Just to put this into perspective:
Sami Vatanen the ex-NHLer with more than 470 NHL games under his belt was only ranked at 8.
3. What exactly has Dvorsky done so far. Just look at his mediocre numbers in the SECOND - Tier league in Sweden the Allsvenskan. His production hasn't been great. Production was average at best.
4. @ Steve: curious how you compare a defensive prospect with a forward?
5. your statement that Seider was the exception is completely wrong. Just look at the draft results of the last 3 years. Nemec at #2, Jiricek # 6 in 2022 then you have Luke Hughes # 4, you have Korcinski #6 Clarke at # 8 to LA. This is indicating a MAJOR SHIFT towards D-Man taken in the top 10. Teams recognize how important it is in today's game to have talent on the Blueline. Just look at the Hurricanes, they made to the Eastern conference finals only because of the excellent blue line.
6. statement that Reinbacher is "risky" is not true. He's a safe pick, because he has been playing against men for two years. NA forwards are more risky because you don't know how their game translates to the pro-game.
It's pretty simple: Reinbacher will go top 10, either the Habs select him at #5 or the Caps or the Red Wings will take him. Yzerman is smart enough to take him once he get's past Washington.
End of story.

1. Point played against men? Crosby? Marner? Jack Hughes? Fox? Makar? Stamkos? Leetch? Bourque? Gretzky? Orr?

No. But guess who did play against men? Ristolainen. Brannstrom. Vaakanainen. Broberg. And many others.

It’s a fallacy to think playing against men is some sort of advantage. I know I learned that lesson with Kakko and Hughes.

2. Impressive accomplishment, of course. But Vatanen wasn’t offered an NHL contract at 30 years old. So don’t know if that’s something to use to prop up Reinbacher. The NLA is a good league but it’s not known as a pipeline to the NHL since nearly all the best Swiss prospects go to the CHL. Josi is the huge exception and that was 15 years ago. So there’s risk involved.

3. Allsvenskan is a strong league. Everybody knows that. Dvorsky’s production as a 17-year-old prospect is in line with Forsberg and Bratt, among a few others. Role decreased when he left for the WJC and didn’t get it back. Not a big deal considering what he did in the J20 and tournaments. Stock never took a hit all season.

4. Forwards are more valuable in top 10 of R1 unless it’s a special defenseman. I will rank a dman high if he blows me away and/or has a strong postseason. Tournaments a factor only if regular season/playoffs can’t tip the scales. Reinbacher was a riser for me (and everyone else) but this forward group is special. He would have needed an Owen Power WC to bump a forward out of top 10. He’s been ok. Nothing jumps out but nothing bad.

5. Seider was overdrafted. He was totally off the board. The others you mentioned went where they were expected to go. That is why I called him the exception. Of course teams will take defensemen early but going off the board to do it in the top-10 rarely happens anymore. Again, Seider the exception.

6. Safe can be risky in a historic class. Reinbacher will be in the NHL, but will he be an all-star? The risk is drafting an everyday NHL defenseman over a cluster of forwards in which 3/5 or 2/6 become HHOF’ers. So yes, there is risk.

As for where he goes, I really don’t care all that much. It’ll be top 10. If he gets drafted in the top 5, the fans of that team will be pissed until Reinbacher proves them wrong. Not an ideal situation but not insurmountable.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

How is that saying NHL scouts opinions are the Bible? You’re putting words into my mouth. If 14 NHL scouts agree that Reinbacher is more like 10th overall, they can be wrong. Certainly. But it’s not “laughable”.

What’s “laughable” is somebody claiming that Thomas Drance and Bob McKenzie are only pretending to have scouting contacts and are making all of this up to trick people. That’s laughable. It’s crazy. That’s not a difference of opinion. It’s unhinged.


I haven’t expected anyone to agree with me. Please try to follow along.

I appreciate the discourse but I don‘t see this conversation leading anywhere productive. Take care!

 

[FriarChill]

Secondary assist Reinbacher strikes again ;-p.
Just assisted on austrias 3rd goal

 

[Steve Kournianos]

A few short snippets from the very long and very good Drance article above. Everyone should subscribe and read all of his content.

View attachment 711476View attachment 711477View attachment 711479View attachment 711480View attachment 711481

Agree with most of what they said but disagree that he isn’t a guy to build around. The NLA is full of recent NHLers and former higher-round picks in their prime, so I dont think the sheet or physicality should be a concern.

The concern should be Michkov or Smith dropping 80-85 points a season and Reinbacher is another Liljegren (whom many considered top-5 in most of 2017).

 

[Hinterland]

What’s up with the personal attacks because someone disagrees with your proclamation? Don’t know what you have invested in this but the personal attacks are uncalled for.

As for the article, I think alot of people on HF are developing their own opinions on the players by watching them firsthand and not basing their opinions on what other people have to say as if it’s the bible.

There is no right or wrong answer when scouting. It’s part of the allure.

There is no right or wrong with scouting...it's opinion and maybe some end up being right more often than others.

There is right or wrong with stats though. Stats are public information. At least the most common stats like assists are available for everyone and usually in pro leagues also accurately tracked. As a business you can't hide your content behind a subscription paywall just to write articles including false stats and expect to get taken seriously.

How dumb do you have to be to believe that 2 out of 4 scouts would tell the athletic the exact same fake news. And even if they actually found the two dumbest NHL scouts out there to write their article it still shouldn't get out there like this. A 1min google search tells you this is false so this isn't quality journalism. If you charge people to read your content, you should also have editors reading articles/interviews before they're published. This is all very much in line with how these scammers operate. Be it clickbait (but zero content), buying data for spamming people's inboxes etc.

 

[Hinterland]

1. Point played against men? Crosby? Marner? Jack Hughes? Fox? Makar? Stamkos? Leetch? Bourque? Gretzky? Orr?

No. But guess who did play against men? Ristolainen. Brannstrom. Vaakanainen. Broberg. And many others.

It’s a fallacy to think playing against men is some sort of advantage. I know I learned that lesson with Kakko and Hughes.

2. Impressive accomplishment, of course. But Vatanen wasn’t offered an NHL contract at 30 years old. So don’t know if that’s something to use to prop up Reinbacher. The NLA is a good league but it’s not known as a pipeline to the NHL since nearly all the best Swiss prospects go to the CHL. Josi is the huge exception and that was 15 years ago. So there’s risk involved.

3. Allsvenskan is a strong league. Everybody knows that. Dvorsky’s production as a 17-year-old prospect is in line with Forsberg and Bratt, among a few others. Role decreased when he left for the WJC and didn’t get it back. Not a big deal considering what he did in the J20 and tournaments. Stock never took a hit all season.

4. Forwards are more valuable in top 10 of R1 unless it’s a special defenseman. I will rank a dman high if he blows me away and/or has a strong postseason. Tournaments a factor only if regular season/playoffs can’t tip the scales. Reinbacher was a riser for me (and everyone else) but this forward group is special. He would have needed an Owen Power WC to bump a forward out of top 10. He’s been ok. Nothing jumps out but nothing bad.

5. Seider was overdrafted. He was totally off the board. The others you mentioned went where they were expected to go. That is why I called him the exception. Of course teams will take defensemen early but going off the board to do it in the top-10 rarely happens anymore. Again, Seider the exception.

6. Safe can be risky in a historic class. Reinbacher will be in the NHL, but will he be an all-star? The risk is drafting an everyday NHL defenseman over a cluster of forwards in which 3/5 or 2/6 become HHOF’ers. So yes, there is risk.

As for where he goes, I really don’t care all that much. It’ll be top 10. If he gets drafted in the top 5, the fans of that team will be pissed until Reinbacher proves them wrong. Not an ideal situation but not insurmountable.

Swiss prospects moving to play CHL or in Sweden has nothing to do with them not wanting to play NL. The problem is that they can't get enough ice time, sometimes not even a spot in the NL. It's a strong league but it's not a development league. For most teams, money is irrelevant. If money is the deciding factor for a player, they can sign anybody out of all Europe and the AHL. Unlike the SHL teams, NL teams don't feel like they have to develop players. Unless a kid is clearly and proven better than any vet they can hire with their money, the kid isn't gonna play in the NL. That's how it works for most NL teams.

An even bigger problem is that the Swiss junior leagues are a joke. There's the SL as a fallback option but it's not a very good pro league and coaching is mostly dumb. Othmann and McTavish were covid related exceptions but you don't usually get drafted out of the SL. So if you can't make the jump from junior leagues to NL quickly (like I said even the most talented kids mostly can't) you have no choice but to leave the country. Lian Bichsel instantly made Leksands SHL team because he impressed them in camp. He wouldn't have gotten this chance in Biel no matter of performance in camp. He'd have been an injury fill in at best. So even if he didn't make Leksand's SHL team, Sweden still would have been a better option because of their strong junior system. Same story now with Daniil Ustinkov. Played well in the NL...even in the playoffs. Still no chance to even earn an NL spot so he's gonna play CHL next season.

So to summarize, if anything there's less risk involved with Reinbacher because he dominated a league most draft eligible kids wouldn't even get a chance to earn a spot in.

In fairness though Reinbacher most certainly wouldn't have gotten the chance either if it wasn't for his Swiss playing licence and him being a huge part of the team that got promoted from SL to NL. He made the most out of it but in any other situation, Reinbacher probably doesn't get that chance.

 

[Nuckster]

From that I've heard/ read on Reinbacher is that he is a high quality RD, he clearly has the tools to play in the NHL and potentially in a top 4 role.

That being said, it seems he's more of a "high floor" vs "high ceiling" type of player. A safe RD pick with size and skating ability that the team who picks him knows he will play.

That being said, given everyone like to compare players, the idea that he's got Seider's upside is (from what many scouts are saying), is aggressive.

I think both he and ASP are going to be taken too high because RD is a problematic position in the NHL. Both should be solid players but ASP for instance is no Quinn Hughes, more like an Adam Boqvuist (a good player but not a top 10 talent imho). Reinbacher as well.

Many scouts are saying teams will "reach" for these two because they are the top 2 RD in the draft, the problem is, there are many other RD who are 'close' and could be just as good or better in the end. Basically, neither of these players are projecting as elite in the NHL, but rather 'solid' players.

As a Canucks fan, I really hope we don't reach, particularly given that next year's draft is apparently Defense heavy.

Given you aren't drafting today for today's needs, you should always take the player with the highest ceiling in the first round IMHO.

 

[German Hockey]

There is a reason for Steve Yzerman and his chefscout Kris Draper to make the long journey to Austria only to scout Reinbacher in the game Czechia vs. Austria.

There have been countless NHL scouts to Switzerland only to watch Reinbacher play. It started in November 2022 when scouts of the Washington Capitals, the Montreal canadians and the Vancouver Canucks were in Switzerland.

Shane Malloy, well known for his masterpiece the art of scouting has been repeatedly mentioning that a future Top 4 is more valuable to any NHL team that a top 6 forward. When you look at the results of the last two years it should be clear to everybody that some teams take a big swing to get high-end talent on the blueline.

No major scouting service had Korcinski in the top 10. No a single one, but Chicago they had the balls to draft Korcinski at #6.

Freimüller who served as a european scout for the atlanta trashers and looking back at 25+ years of scouting experience has Reinbacher in the same tier as Simon Nemec (2nd overall in 2022) and David Jiricek (sixth overall 2022). He said that Reinbacher has the potential to become a No. 2 defenceman in the NHL.

again, as GM of an NHL team you pick such a prospect like Reinbacher ahead of almost any winger in this years draft. Only Michkov should be taken ahead of Reinbacher. There was a report couple weeks ago saying that the Montreal Canadians are very interested in Reinbacher.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Habs select him at #5.
If they don't Stevie Yzerman will hit gold again picking Reinbacher at #9.

It's always the same story: the North American guys hype their prospects and the European prospects don't get the credit they deserve. Who was giving credit and respect to Elias Pettersson? Who was giving credit to Moritz Seider?
Seider would go 1st overall in any re-draft. I remember well, how all the north american guys raved about Bowen Byram. Laugh my ass off. Just look where bowen Byram is today in comparision to Seider.
Time for the north american guys to take a hard look in the mirror and question their ability to make unbiased assessments.

 

[Castle8130]

In other news...

Reinbacher got an assist today and from what I've heard, looked awesome. I think any team in the top 10 to draft him will be very happy

 

[German Hockey]

From that I've heard/ read on Reinbacher is that he is a high quality RD, he clearly has the tools to play in the NHL and potentially in a top 4 role.

That being said, it seems he's more of a "high floor" vs "high ceiling" type of player. A safe RD pick with size and skating ability that the team who picks him knows he will play.

That being said, given everyone like to compare players, the idea that he's got Seider's upside is (from what many scouts are saying), is aggressive.

I think both he and ASP are going to be taken too high because RD is a problematic position in the NHL. Both should be solid players but ASP for instance is no Quinn Hughes, more like an Adam Boqvuist (a good player but not a top 10 talent imho). Reinbacher as well.

Many scouts are saying teams will "reach" for these two because they are the top 2 RD in the draft, the problem is, there are many other RD who are 'close' and could be just as good or better in the end. Basically, neither of these players are projecting as elite in the NHL, but rather 'solid' players.

As a Canucks fan, I really hope we don't reach, particularly given that next year's draft is apparently Defense heavy.

Given you aren't drafting today for today's needs, you should always take the player with the highest ceiling in the first round IMHO.

I think you should read the article written by the canucksarmy on Reinbacher again. There is one key take-away: the upside for Reinbacher is massive.
You will find the word ´"massive" in this report.
Maybe you missed this paragraph.

 

[German Hockey]

I guess in the opinons of these 2 scouts mentioned Seider was also overdrafted. HaHa . Shit happens

 

[lanky]

@rt
Speaking of McKenzie, Reinbacher was un-rated in September, he was #20 in January and then #10 in May. There's a clear trajectory here.

Scouting lists are notoriously slow to adapt to new information. I think that the June list will show Reinbacher top 7. I think he's a fine choice as early as #4, assuming GM's are shy on drafting Michkov.

This guy is getting drafted early and it won't be a mistake or a reach. It won't be because his new team had a positional need.

 

[wetcoast]

There is a reason for Steve Yzerman and his chefscout Kris Draper to make the long journey to Austria only to scout Reinbacher in the game Czechia vs. Austria.

There have been countless NHL scouts to Switzerland only to watch Reinbacher play. It started in November 2022 when scouts of the Washington Capitals, the Montreal canadians and the Vancouver Canucks were in Switzerland.

Shane Malloy, well known for his masterpiece the art of scouting has been repeatedly mentioning that a future Top 4 is more valuable to any NHL team that a top 6 forward. When you look at the results of the last two years it should be clear to everybody that some teams take a big swing to get high-end talent on the blueline.

No major scouting service had Korcinski in the top 10. No a single one, but Chicago they had the balls to draft Korcinski at #6.

Freimüller who served as a european scout for the atlanta trashers and looking back at 25+ years of scouting experience has Reinbacher in the same tier as Simon Nemec (2nd overall in 2022) and David Jiricek (sixth overall 2022). He said that Reinbacher has the potential to become a No. 2 defenceman in the NHL.

again, as GM of an NHL team you pick such a prospect like Reinbacher ahead of almost any winger in this years draft. Only Michkov should be taken ahead of Reinbacher. There was a report couple weeks ago saying that the Montreal Canadians are very interested in Reinbacher.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Habs select him at #5.
If they don't Stevie Yzerman will hit gold again picking Reinbacher at #9.

It's always the same story: the North American guys hype their prospects and the European prospects don't get the credit they deserve. Who was giving credit and respect to Elias Pettersson? Who was giving credit to Moritz Seider?
Seider would go 1st overall in any re-draft. I remember well, how all the north american guys raved about Bowen Byram. Laugh my ass off. Just look where bowen Byram is today in comparision to Seider.
Time for the north american guys to take a hard look in the mirror and question their ability to make unbiased assessments.

I like your post but both EP40 and Seider had significant development years after they were drafted which really boosted their stock.

Also Bryam might only be behind Seider due to injuries when he has been healthy he has been rock solid.

 

[rt]

@rt
Speaking of McKenzie, Reinbacher was un-rated in September, he was #20 in January and then #10 in May. There's a clear trajectory here.

Scouting lists are notoriously slow to adapt to new information. I think that the June list will show Reinbacher top 7. I think he's a fine choice as early as #4, assuming GM's are shy on drafting Michkov.

This guy is getting drafted early and it won't be a mistake or a reach. It won't be because his new team had a positional need.

I never said he won’t or shouldn’t be taken 6th-10th. I took issue with someone saying that it “hilarious” to call him a reach at five. My post was simply to refute that claim by offering a list compiled from a 10 NHL scout poll and survey responses from another 4 NHL scouts that all indicate he would be a “reach” at 5th. And therefore, it’s not a “hilarious” opinion.

I haven’t offered my own opinion. People are struggling with that. It’s because I called the crazy guy a crazy guy when he said that Thomas Drance and Bob McKenzie are lying about surveying scouts. Somehow people thought that meant I was mad at him for disagreeing with me about something. I never even gave an opinion on Reinbacher.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

These scouts don't exist though. It's all made up by the athletic clowns. It's the single biggest scam in the history of sports. But as long as there are enough idiots to pay for nonsense and fake news...whatever you wanna call it they do...it has very little in common with journalism.

I believe this after reading those scouting reports, sounds like people who never watched the guy play. Sounds made up