D David Reinbacher - EHC Kloten, NL (2023, 5th, MTL)

JT3

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Not sure why people perceive Reinbacher to have any less upside than guys like Smith, Benson, Leonard, etc. I think he has all the tools and smarts you would want in a top pair RD. Maybe he isn't a 50pt PPQB, but I can easily see him as a 22-23 minute all situations guy. And he is easily projectable whereas I personally have a lot of question marks around some of the forwards I mentioned.

This reminds me exactly of Seider and Sanderson where they moved up the rankings over the year but people were hesitant about them because they aren't flashy skilled forwards with lofty point totals. Defenders with tools like these guys will always be extremely coveted and are near impossible to get outside of drafting them yourself.
 

WayneGretzky

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The situation reminds me of Seider/Sanderson, the player does not.

Difference being Seider/Sanderson will absolutely be 50pt guys who run PPs.
 

Michoulicious

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The situation reminds me of Seider/Sanderson, the player does not.

Difference being Seider/Sanderson will absolutely be 50pt guys who run PPs.
I don't see Reinbacher being worth a top 10 pick, but to be fair in their draft year in March it did not look like Seider or Sanderson would be drafted where they were drafted, especially not Seider.

Teams tend to reach for big centers and big Ds.
 

JT3

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The situation reminds me of Seider/Sanderson, the player does not.

Difference being Seider/Sanderson will absolutely be 50pt guys who run PPs.
Luckily I was indeed comparing the situations, and not the players. Regardless, I recall people having the same thoughts about Sanderson pre-draft as Reinbacher now, with people questioning his offensive upside and viewing him as a safe but un-spectacular top 4 player. Obviously that has not turned out to be the case. I can see something similar happening with Reinbacher.
 
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Luckily I was indeed comparing the situations, and not the players. Regardless, I recall people having the same thoughts about Sanderson pre-draft as Reinbacher now, with people questioning his offensive upside and viewing him as a safe but un-spectacular top 4 player. Obviously that has not turned out to be the case. I can see something similar happening with Reinbacher.
Well. It's possible certain NHL coaches would at least try to coach that out of him but you can't currenty describe Reinbacher as unspectacular. Like I and I think other posters as well mentioned already, Reinbacher loves to join the attack. He does even crash the net when he gets a chance. Doesn't necessarily take stupid risks or do fancy stuff but he at times does play almost like a forward so he's not your average low event shutdown defender as some posters here described him.
 

JT3

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Well. It's possible certain NHL coaches would at least try to coach that out of him but you can't currenty describe Reinbacher as unspectacular. Like I and I think other posters as well mentioned already, Reinbacher loves to join the attack. He does even crash the net when he gets a chance. Doesn't necessarily take stupid risks or do fancy stuff but he at times does play almost like a forward so he's not your average low event shutdown defender as some posters here described him.
I was intending to say that people viewed Sanderson as unspectacular (who I liked) and see people viewing Reinbacher similarly. I personally am very high on Reinbacher, and completely agree with you regarding his offensive play. Assuming the Habs pick pick 5-6 or so and the big 4 are off the board, I'm hoping they would take Reinbacher or Benson.
 

Bye Bye Blueston

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Luckily I was indeed comparing the situations, and not the players. Regardless, I recall people having the same thoughts about Sanderson pre-draft as Reinbacher now, with people questioning his offensive upside and viewing him as a safe but un-spectacular top 4 player. Obviously that has not turned out to be the case. I can see something similar happening with Reinbacher.
Here is what I don't understand (and not meaning to pick on you). If you thought he would be Jacob Slavin you'd take him top 10, yes? Ryan Pulock? Probably. Hampus? Certainly. So why do we think that if guy doesn't look like Paul Coffey he's not worth pick?
 

JT3

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Here is what I don't understand (and not meaning to pick on you). If you thought he would be Jacob Slavin you'd take him top 10, yes? Ryan Pulock? Probably. Hampus? Certainly. So why do we think that if guy doesn't look like Paul Coffey he's not worth pick?
I assume you're referring to posters/people in general as like I stated I do see plenty of offensive upside with Reinbacher. I think it has to do with the fact that most fans cannot quantify defense in general whereas they can look at point totals or flashy highlight plays and drool over that.

Take the 2020 draft with Drysdale and Sanderson. This board salivated over Drysdale, he had PPG offense and some more excitement to his game whereas most viewed Sanderson as a not much more than a safe, steady top 4 guy. If we consider it now, who will be the more effective player in the long run? Remains to be seen but I'd likely put my money on Sanderson.

What people should be looking at, especially with defenders, is the overall smarts/tools package and how easy it will be for them to transition into an impact player at the NHL level. I think it's a little different with forwards where pure skill can get you a decent ways, but defenseman are a different story because they are players you are more often than not relying on to play in all situations.

I don't even know if I answered your question, but TLDR: Fans want to swing for the fences and have trouble placing value on defense and transition whereas points totals are easily comparable.
 

Bye Bye Blueston

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I assume you're referring to posters/people in general as like I stated I do see plenty of offensive upside with Reinbacher. I think it has to do with the fact that most fans cannot quantify defense in general whereas they can look at point totals or flashy highlight plays and drool over that.

Take the 2020 draft with Drysdale and Sanderson. This board salivated over Drysdale, he had PPG offense and some more excitement to his game whereas most viewed Sanderson as a not much more than a safe, steady top 4 guy. If we consider it now, who will be the more effective player in the long run? Remains to be seen but I'd likely put my money on Sanderson.

What people should be looking at, especially with defenders, is the overall smarts/tools package and how easy it will be for them to transition into an impact player at the NHL level. I think it's a little different with forwards where pure skill can get you a decent ways, but defenseman are a different story because they are players you are more often than not relying on to play in all situations.

I don't even know if I answered your question, but TLDR: Fans want to swing for the fences and have trouble placing value on defense and transition whereas points totals are easily comparable.
Yes, I meant folks in general, but I think you got at it. Because defense is harder to quantify we as fans don't value it as much in draft picks.
 

Mrb1p

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Here is what I don't understand (and not meaning to pick on you). If you thought he would be Jacob Slavin you'd take him top 10, yes? Ryan Pulock? Probably. Hampus? Certainly. So why do we think that if guy doesn't look like Paul Coffey he's not worth pick?
Its not even that man... Reinbacher IS flashy. He does jump into the play, a lot. He has a booming shot. He has a nasty wrister. He dekes pro adults for a living. He hits hard. He crashes the net. He does stupid long stretch passes.

It's mostly that people on this board, and in general, do not watch prospect. They form an opinion on a player from a totally different construct in their heads. Thats why you see so many Seider comparisons. Austria is almost germany, amirite ? 6'2 is almost 6'3... Reinbacher and Seider kinda sounds similar, amirite ? Then they look at the production, they look at where they were ranked early, etc.

Nothing suggests he has limited upside offensively. He's currently running the powerplay on a pro team, this is something that ... only... Michkov ? Does in this draft year.
 

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Its not even that man... Reinbacher IS flashy. He does jump into the play, a lot. He has a booming shot. He has a nasty wrister. He dekes pro adults for a living. He hits hard. He crashes the net. He does stupid long stretch passes.

It's mostly that people on this board, and in general, do not watch prospect. They form an opinion on a player from a totally different construct in their heads. Thats why you see so many Seider comparisons. Austria is almost germany, amirite ? 6'2 is almost 6'3... Reinbacher and Seider kinda sounds similar, amirite ? Then they look at the production, they look at where they were ranked early, etc.

Nothing suggests he has limited upside offensively. He's currently running the powerplay on a pro team, this is something that ... only... Michkov ? Does in this draft year.
I was initially skeptical of Reinbacher. I assumed it was people equating him with seider and overrating him. But the more I watch of him the more convinced I am he is top 5-10 pick on merit. I don’t know if he will be a #1d, but do we really know that smith will be 1c or benson a top line winger? I think reinbacher looks like prototype of modern defenseman and is i think at least as likely play in top 4 d as pretty much any forward this year outside of top 4 guys is to play in top 6 Forwards.
 

rt

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I was initially skeptical of Reinbacher. I assumed it was people equating him with seider and overrating him. But the more I watch of him the more convinced I am he is top 5-10 pick on merit. I don’t know if he will be a #1d, but do we really know that smith will be 1c or benson a top line winger? I think reinbacher looks like prototype of modern defenseman and is i think at least as likely play in top 4 d as pretty much any forward this year outside of top 4 guys is to play in top 6 Forwards.
Yes
 

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Watching Reinbacher play about 9-10 games now, this is my analysis.

Reinbacher‘s skating and vision are his strongest attributes. He uses his long reach coupled with his skating maneuvers (inside edge work is immaculate) to effectively close the gap on rushing forwards. He picks up loose pucks and uses his explosive straight line speed to lose the checker and creates a perfect crisp pass to his forwards.

His vision in the offensive zone is 9/10. He sees the ice efficiently well, though he does have a considerable amount of space playing in a bigger rink so it remains to be seen how well he’ll be able to handle the considerable clogging of passing lanes and board control from the point. He has a knack to puck watch a bit and can be caught flat footed due to being too complacent and waiting the puck to come to him rather than proactively trying to get it.

Defensively, he’s an 8.5/10. He uses his size exceptionally well to create separation and space, and he uses his very active stick and body positioning to make forwards move to the perimeter. However, a major flaw of his is that once the player walks down the line towards the outside, he has a tendency to chase and put himself out of position especially when the opposition plays a high tempo dump and chase overload system which surprisingly is apparent in more than a handful of Swiss league teams. His reaction time is sluggish in that he is great at using his reach to push play to the perimeter but lacks the anticipation to read what the forward will do after they’ve transitioned to the outside. He’s excellent at breaking up plays however, and again uses his reach to make decisive stick lifts and quick ups using the boards to clear the puck to safety.

His shot, passing ability, and his overall skill is 8/10. His shot being the best tool in his arsenal as he can hammer away shots from the point. His shots are very accurate and rarely gets blocked. At times however he’ll shoot very low percentage shots and would’ve been better off, again, using the boards to create pressure or use his exceptional hands and skating ability to create space for himself and move the puck around for a better chance. I would like to see him be more of a puck mover in this regard.

Positioning wise, he’s 9/10. Exceptional hockey IQ, knows when to jump up onto plays, back down on high risk plays, uses effective shoulder checks to scan ahead, and knows exactly where to be when backing up his forwards on puck retrievals in the defensive zone as well as behind the net/board position.

Altogether, in my view, he’s the unequivocal best defenseman in this draft, and really only has a few coachable flaws to his game. Stylistically, he reminds me of Pietrangelo.

A year in the AHL would absolute wonders for him.
 
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Hinterland

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Its not even that man... Reinbacher IS flashy. He does jump into the play, a lot. He has a booming shot. He has a nasty wrister. He dekes pro adults for a living. He hits hard. He crashes the net. He does stupid long stretch passes.

It's mostly that people on this board, and in general, do not watch prospect. They form an opinion on a player from a totally different construct in their heads. Thats why you see so many Seider comparisons. Austria is almost germany, amirite ? 6'2 is almost 6'3... Reinbacher and Seider kinda sounds similar, amirite ? Then they look at the production, they look at where they were ranked early, etc.

Nothing suggests he has limited upside offensively. He's currently running the powerplay on a pro team, this is something that ... only... Michkov ? Does in this draft year.
Usually the 2nd unit but yeah. He's usually the lone defender on his unit and one of just two defenders on the roster to get regular PP-time which tells you he's trusted.

Btw, Kloten's season is over now they lost the pre playoff series vs Bern. Tough draw to get the biggest powerhouse in European hockey before playoffs even started.
 
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Hockeyfrilla

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Usually the 2nd unit but yeah. He's usually the lone defender on his unit and one of just two defenders on the roster to get regular PP-time which tells you he's trusted.

Btw, Kloten's season is over now they lost the pre playoff series vs Bern. Tough draw to get the biggest powerhouse in European hockey before playoffs even started.

In what sense do you mean? There are better european teams for sure.
 

Hinterland

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In what sense do you mean? There are better european teams for sure.
There is no bigger hockey brand in Europe and it's not close. Other Swiss teams may have similar financial options but unlike them, Bern doesn't just have money because of wealthy owners or ownership groups. Bern just simply makes shitloads of money. Postfince arena can fit over 17'000 spectators and their regular season average attendance is usually around 14'000 and they really have zero competition. Frölunda, ZSC Lions and Fribourg are the best of the rest but usually around 8000 which is a far cry from Bern.

Granted...Bern may have won 4 championships the last 10 years but they also sucked many years while not making the most out of financial options due to incompetent front office and coaching.

Still, to face them in pre playoffs was a tough draw for Kloten who was just promoted last summer. That was a rather unbalanced matchup.
 
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Hockeyfrilla

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There is no bigger hockey brand in Europe and it's not close. Other Swiss teams may have similar financial options but unlike them, Bern doesn't just have money because of wealthy owners or ownership groups. Bern just simply makes shitloads of money. Postfince arena can fit over 17'000 spectators and their regular season average attendance is usually around 14'000 and they really have zero competition. Frölunda, ZSC Lions and Fribourg are the best of the rest but usually around 8000 which is a far cry from Bern.

Granted...Bern may have won 4 championships the last 10 years but they also sucked many years while not making the most out of financial options due to incompetent front office and coaching.

Still, to face them in pre playoffs was a tough draw for Kloten who was just promoted last summer. That was a rather unbalanced matchup.

Fair enough, if we focus on the financial aspects of the game, Bern is certainly in the top of european hockey.
 

57special

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Here is what I don't understand (and not meaning to pick on you). If you thought he would be Jacob Slavin you'd take him top 10, yes? Ryan Pulock? Probably. Hampus? Certainly. So why do we think that if guy doesn't look like Paul Coffey he's not worth pick?
Because looking at box scores and making a judgement by that alone is easy. Truly evaluating a player by watching him play, then projecting how he he will do against much better opposition, is not.

In a draft year bereft of top Dman, a 6’2”, skilled RHD w/o any major weaknesses will be drafted higher than he would otherwise. A lot of the forwards after the top 4 have size issues. Many GM’S will not miss this, and choose Reinbacher over them(if RHD is a need….it usually is).
 
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Hinterland

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Fair enough, if we focus on the financial aspects of the game, Bern is certainly in the top of european hockey.
Yeah. In fact, Bern's average attendance was almost 15'000 this season but it's still closer than I wrote in my previous post since the Lions averaged almost 11'500. Thanks to their brandnew Swiss Life arena Bern might finally have competition. Compared, Kloten, Reinbacher's team, is a very small fish.
 
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