Czech-Slovakia

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Of course! Only 2 years later, in 1994, at the Lillehammer Olympics, Slovakia finished 6th after winning the preliminary group (!) and unluckily losing the quarterfinal match against Russia in overtime. You can't seriously say that a team capable of playing so well in 1994 should only have been represented with two players at the Worlds only two years earlier.

Also, the 1990 Worlds were memorable because a sensational new Czech forwards line of teenagers was introduced internationally at that tourney: Reichel – Holík – Jágr. Would it ever have been possible for Slovakia to have 3 youngsters nominated for the Worlds? No, sir, never... Even the most established Slovak players had trouble getting nominated for the Czechoslovakia team; basically only the biggest Slovak stars got nominated, but promising youngsters? Forget it...


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What specific Czech players in 1992 should've been left off the roster and what Slovaks were more deserving? What happened in 1994 is irrelevant.

Slovaks were always more represented on the football national team. Do you think there was more of a bias in hockey or was it simply because Slovaks had better football players than hockey players?
 
I fail to see why the Czechoslovak team would be much stronger than the current Czech team. Upfront? You would add Hossa and Gáborík to the current Czech core, maybe someone like Tatár. On defense, Sekera and Chára with ViÅ¡ňovský, with the latter two being old and declining. Halák is better than Pavelec but he's not that exceptional either.

Even taking potential off-ice issues aside, it would only be a marginally improved team. Nothing that would change the balance of international hockey as it has developed over the recent years.

C'mon that would be huge upgrade.
 
Team USA/Canada would absolutely DESTROY the rest of the world. I don't think you guys would want this.

Add Patrick Kane and Phil Kessel to Canada's best roster and it's game over. 10-0 against any team, every game.

I dont even think Kessel makes Canada's best roster.(If team is constructed properly.)
 
I think that the discussion between some members on here explains exactly why the team Czechoslovakia isn't a good idea from a fans view point :laugh:

I don't really want to get into the whole Czechs vs. Slovaks on NTs discussion and I'm not a big fan of football and don't remember enough history, but I thought that whether Slovaks or Czechs were dominant on the football NT actually changed throughout the decades. I think that around the time of the Euro title both Slovan and Trnava were rather dominant in Czechoslovak football and that's why most players came from Slovakia then. But perhaps some avid football fan can prove otherwise with some actual facts like the exact numbers of Czechs/Slovaks in the football NTs throughout history.

Not that it matters anymore though.
 
Would it ever have been possible for Slovakia to have 3 youngsters nominated for the Worlds? No, sir, never... Even the most established Slovak players had trouble getting nominated for the Czechoslovakia team; basically only the biggest Slovak stars got nominated, but promising youngsters? Forget it...

Stastny brothers?
 
Add Patrick Kane and Phil Kessel to Canada's best roster and it's game over. 10-0 against any team, every game.

You're being too enthusiastic. :laugh: I don't think there'd be a significant difference between a Canada-only and a combined Canada & US team, in terms of performance/results. Canada-only team already is virtually perfection, and you can't really improve what's already perfect. ;) But even a team that's almost perfect on paper can be beaten by other teams, especially in a single-game play-off matchup.

What specific Czech players in 1992 should've been left off the roster and what Slovaks were more deserving?
I'm too busy to find out right now, but if you pay me for that research, I can try. ;) There was a documentary recently on Slovak TV (can also be found on YouTube somewhere) that specifically referred to talented Slovak hockey players in the early 1990s who just couldn't get onto Czechoslovakia's national team, no matter what – even if their stats in the Czechoslovak league were sometimes better than those of their Czech peers. (I think there was at least one very prominent Slovak player example, but I forget who it was.)

Slovaks were always more represented on the football national team.
Definitely not. As slovakiasnextone said, this was changing through the decades, but perhaps except for the 1970s, Czechs typically dominated. In the final years of Czechoslovakia, it was utter domination by the Czechs again. At the last football World Cup for Czechoslovakia in 1990 in Italy, there were very few Slovaks on the roster.

Do you think there was more of a bias
I don't know, but there were always these quarrels (definitely among fans) as to "Why are there so many/few Czechs/Slovaks on our national team?" etc., which is why it would have been wise to split Czechoslovakia's national teams immediately after Communists were toppled in 1989/90. I'm sure the common leagues (if not the common country) would have been rescued that way.

Stastny brothers?
Not a good example. First, they were phenomenal superstars, so that's a different thing from a "promising youngster" – say, someone like Dominik Simon on the current Czech team, or Martin Réway, Adam JánošÃ­k on the current Slovak team.

Also, there's a pretty big age difference between the 3 brothers, so they weren't really "promising youngsters" all three at the same time. Marián is 6 years older than Anton, and Peter is roughly halfway in between them. I'm not sure Anton managed to play a lot of games for Czechoslovakia at all, because he was still very young when he managed to flee to Canada, as opposed to his brothers who had at the time already been established players for quite a few years.
 
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Hmm... I'm sure there were only a few in the starting 11. ;) My guess would be 8-3 or 7-4 at best, in most/all games. Perpetual bench-warmers don't really count, do they? (The football version of "healthy scratch".)
 
Out of 22 players, 11 were Slovaks. Hardly "very few".

Found an article that has the numbers of Slovaks for all World Cups, couldn't find one for the EURO:

1934 1 Slovak
1938 1 Slovak
1954 10 Slovaks were on 22 men roster, but only 4 played in games, 4 were on the bench and 2 stayed at home to decrease costs
1958 4 Slovaks played in the tourney, 2 were on the bench
1962 5 Slovaks played at least one game, 3 were on the bench
1970 14 Slovaks played in games,3 on the bench
1982 5 Slovaks played, 1 more could have played if no for injury (Jan Kozak Sr.)
1990 8 Slovaks played, 3 were on the bench

http://fansvss.blog.cz/1005/zoznam-slovakov-ceskoslovenska-na-ms

The only time I would say the Slovaks were dominant on the roster was n 1970, but it's already been mentioned that the 1970s were a time when Slovan Bratislava and Spartak Trnava dominated Czechoslovak league:

Slovan
Czechoslovak league champion in 69/70, 73/74, 74/75

Trnava
Czechoslovak league champion in 67/68, 68/69, 70/71, 71/72, 72/73

There was no single time where there were as many Slovaks as there were Czechs on the hockey team, and AFAIK you wouldn't even find a single Czechoslovak team were the ratio woud be the 2:1 as the population ratio was at senior levels. I am way too lazy to look up all the WC rosters, but jus looking through the Olympic rosters thee were at best 4-5 Slovaks on the roster.

One thing that should probably be said while lumping Czech republic and Slovakia together in hockey based on Czechoslovakia is the fact that the history and development of the sport actually differs. A hockey programme in Slovakia started about two decades later than in the Czech lands and there are actually quite a few regions where hockey wasn't really played until recently or where it still isn't played due to the lack of artificial ice (South Slovakia being the most glaring example - it is kinda funny that nowadays hockey is in a way more developed in Hungary than it is in the region of Slovakia with a majority of ethnic Hungarians - and also in the East of the country, where the concurrence at the youth levels is rather small compared to the West or Central, you always have Kosice and one of Poprad, Presov and Spisska Nova Ves in the top two of the leagues there). This is perhaps a bit off topic, but I just thought it might be an interesting point.
 
How many active players have competed for Czechoslovakia? I know of Jagr and Rucinsky. Any one else still playing?
 
Hmm... I'm sure there were only a few in the starting 11. ;) My guess would be 8-3 or 7-4 at best, in most/all games. Perpetual bench-warmers don't really count, do they? (The football version of "healthy scratch".)

Yeah, 8 Czechs to 3 Slovaks is a pretty good guess as to the starting 11 for that tournament.

Also, what I meant above is that Slovaks were better represented in football when compared to hockey. Not that they were more represented than the Czechs (although in the mid-70's Slovaks did outnumber Czechs on the NT).
 
How many active players have competed for Czechoslovakia? I know of Jagr and Rucinsky. Any one else still playing?

I don't know about senior players, but there are still some who played for Czechoslovakia at u18 EC and at the WJC.

Jozef Stümpel who has played for Czechoslovakia at both events and who currently plays for Nitra in the Slovak league comes to mind.

But you might find more names here:
http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=1682
http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=1681
 
Found an article that has the numbers of Slovaks

Thanks for those stats. I only looked up the first 3 games by Czechoslovakia in Italy in 1990, and the starters were 8-3 in favor of Czechs in the first two games, and 7-4 in the third game:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_FIFA_World_Cup_Group_A#United_States_vs_Czechoslovakia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_FIFA_World_Cup_Group_A#Austria_vs_Czechoslovakia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_FIFA_World_Cup_Group_A#Italy_vs_Czechoslovakia

Yes, the two substituting players in every game were invariably Slovaks, but... ;)

Now, 8-3 and 7-4 may sound pretty reasonable. If someone produced these same stats for hockey World Championships and Olympics, I'm afraid the ratio would be a lot worse. I mean, at that home Worlds tourney in 1992, to have only 2 Slovaks on a 23-player roster, that's quite brutal. :amazed: And the home team even played the preliminary group in Bratislava, but it was more like a Czech squad with 2 Slovak loans. :( Even in 1985 when Czechoslovakia won the World Championship in Prague and the Slovak Dárius Rusnák was the captain, I don't think there were more than 5 or 6 Slovaks on that roster.

I think that the TV documentary mentioned that Ivan Hlinka, while a great coach, invariably preferred to pick Czech players for the national team, when given a choice between a Czech and a Slovak player of roughly the same performance. (I think Peter Šťastný got into a quarrel with Hlinka over that, which is why he never played for Czechoslovakia post-1989, and only joined team Slovakia after 1992.) These allegatiins/impressions may or may not be true, but it goes to show what potential conflicts could arise whenever a joint national team had to be composed.
 
Just for fun

Looking at the Slovaks on the Worlds roster between 1970 and 1992:

1992 Svehla, Liba, Veselovsky
1991 Medrik, Kolnik
1990 Hartmann, Baca, Bozik, Ciger, Hascak
1989 Baca, Ciger, Hascak, svitek
1987 Bozik, Liba, Pasek
1986 Bozik, Slanina, Liba, Pasek, Rusnak, Stas, Svitek
1985 Liba, Lukac, Pasek, Rusnak
1983 Liba, Lukac, Pasek, Rusnak
1982 Ihnacak, Liba, Lukac, Pasek, Rusnak
1981 Rusnak
1979 Sakac, Bukovinsky, Kuzela, all Stastny brothers
1978 Peter & Marian Stastny
1977 Dzurilla, Lukac, Peter & Marian Stastny
1976 Dzurilla, Peter & Marian Stastny
1975 Marian Stastny
1974 Kuzela
1973 Kuzela
1972 Dzurilla, Kuzela, Tajcnar, Haas
1971 Sakac, Tajcnar, Brunclik

I'm not old enough to remember, but just looking at it statswise it does seem like it was harder for an unestablished Slovak player to make the team. I mean in the early to mid 1980s it seems like it was rather hard to make it if you were Slovak and your name wasn't Rusnak, Liba, Lukac or Pasek. :laugh:

Anyway, of Czechoslovakia had never split we would definitely never see Peter Stastny playing on an Olympic team with two Slovaks youngsters as he did with Palffy and Satan in Lilehammer in 1994.

Even more so I think that international hockey would lose one hell of a intriguing story of a guy who helped to bring up his country's hockey team from the depths of WC C to the top of the world and who won all of his countries medals.

I don't know about you, guys, but one of the reasons I love hockey are stories liek this.
 
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Thanks for those stats. I only looked up the first 3 games by Czechoslovakia in Italy in 1990, and the starters were 8-3 in favor of Czechs in the first two games, and 7-4 in the third game:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_FIFA_World_Cup_Group_A#United_States_vs_Czechoslovakia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_FIFA_World_Cup_Group_A#Austria_vs_Czechoslovakia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_FIFA_World_Cup_Group_A#Italy_vs_Czechoslovakia

Yes, the two substituting players in every game were invariably Slovaks, but... ;)

Now, 8-3 and 7-4 may sound pretty reasonable. If someone produced these same stats for hockey World Championships and Olympics, I'm afraid the ratio would be a lot worse. I mean, at that home Worlds tourney in 1992, to have only 2 Slovaks on a 23-player roster, that's quite brutal. :amazed: And the home team even played the preliminary group in Bratislava, but it was more like a Czech squad with 2 Slovak loans. :( Even in 1985 when Czechoslovakia won the World Championship in Prague and the Slovak Dárius Rusnák was the captain, I don't think there were more than 5 or 6 Slovaks on that roster.

I think that the TV documentary mentioned that Ivan Hlinka, while a great coach, invariably preferred to pick Czech players for the national team, when given a choice between a Czech and a Slovak player of roughly the same performance. (I think Peter Å ťastný got into a quarrel with Hlinka over that, which is why he never played for Czechoslovakia post-1989, and only joined team Slovakia after 1992.) These allegatiins/impressions may or may not be true, but it goes to show what potential conflicts could arise whenever a joint national team had to be composed.

I remember that quite a lot of people were angry with him because he still picked same group of players in early 90s (Hostak, Janecky) who simply werent able to bring gold medal.... I dont really know whether there were other players or if it was the best we had in that time...The change came later with Bukac who gave a chance to new generation. To be honest when he was announced as coach of czech olympic team for 1998, I was quite afraid who he's gonna pick.

I don't think there will be any conflict, maybe except one position in defence... Hossa, Tatar should be definetely in a team. The question is what would happened if somebody decide no to take Gaborik......
 
1985 Liba, Lukac, Pasek, Rusnak

That's horrible, even worse than I thought – only 4 Slovaks on the World Champions team! And all 4 are superstars and Slovak hockey legends, so it was impossible to leave them out. So as I was saying, unless you were an undisputed Slovak superstar, you could basically forget about playing for team Czechoslovakia, because Czech players would get nominated instead. And so, excellent, long-time Slovan players like Dornič and Bezák who had such great chemistry with PaÅ¡ek and Rusnák in Slovan, were left without a Worlds participation...

Overall, that list of Slovak Worlds participants is gruesome to look at, in how meagre it is. :(
 
That's horrible, even worse than I thought – only 4 Slovaks on the World Champions team! And all 4 are superstars and Slovak hockey legends, so it was impossible to leave them out. So as I was saying, unless you were an undisputed Slovak superstar, you could basically forget about playing for team Czechoslovakia, because Czech players would get nominated instead. And so, excellent, long-time Slovan players like Dornič and Bezák who had such great chemistry with PaÅ¡ek and Rusnák in Slovan, were left without a Worlds participation...

Overall, that list of Slovak Worlds participants is gruesome to look at, in how meagre it is. :(

Tough to argue with the selection when the team won the gold medal.
 
C'mon that would be huge upgrade.

Hossa would help. Tatár is a nice player but not a game-breaker, he would likely replace a player that is equally good as him. Gáborík had a good playoff last year but I don't think he's better than Vrbata, for instance. We've got plenty of very good offensive players.

Sekera would help again. Chára has been useless on big ice for quite some time and Višňovský has retired from international hockey. Halák is an upgrade over Pavelec, though I believe that Mrázek will be better than both in a short time.

And as I mentioned in one of the past threads on this topic, I think the team would actually be weaker than the current Czech team because of the amount of ressentment and victimization on the Slovak side, and the arrogance and patronizing on the Czech side. For a glimpse of it, just read what Faterson is posting in this thread. It was always like that before 1993 and now with social networks and the trigger-happy media in both countries... :help:
 
Hossa would help. Tatár is a nice player but not a game-breaker, he would likely replace a player that is equally good as him. Gáborík had a good playoff last year but I don't think he's better than Vrbata, for instance. We've got plenty of very good offensive players.

Sekera would help again. Chára has been useless on big ice for quite some time and Višňovský has retired from international hockey. Halák is an upgrade over Pavelec, though I believe that Mrázek will be better than both in a short time.

And as I mentioned in one of the past threads on this topic, I think the team would actually be weaker than the current Czech team because of the amount of ressentment and victimization on the Slovak part, and the arrogance and patronizing on the Czech side. For a glimpse of it, just read what Faterson is posting in this thread. It was always like that before 1993 and now with social networks and the trigger-happy media in both countries... :help:

With the exception of this years Worlds and perhaps the 2010 WJC every single time I remember Tatar (there's no ´ in his name btw :D) play for the national team, he was the guy who always played with the never say die attitude and who played his heart out.

That's the kind of player you definitely want to have on your NT.

Also I don't even want to overrate Tatar, but: "he would likely replace a player that is equally good as him" sounds like there were dozens of Czech players who scored 29 or more goals in the NHL this year, while the truth is that Hudler and Vrbata were the only ones who scored more goals than him.
 
With the exception of this years Worlds and perhaps the 2010 WJC every single time I remember Tatar (there's no ´ in his name btw :D) play for the national team, he was the guy who always played with the never say die attitude and who played his heart out.

That's the kind of player you definitely want to have on your NT.

Also I don't even want to overrate Tatar, but: "he would likely replace a player that is equally good as him" sounds like there were dozens of Czech players who scored 29 or more goals in the NHL this year, while the truth is that Hudler and Vrbata were the only ones who scored more goals than him.

He'd probably slot into the 2nd or 3rd line LW spot. I don't think he'd make much difference because we're not suffering from lack of skilled wingers and when we added players like Hudler or Vrbata in recent tournaments, it didn't seem to improve us at all. We'd need a much better D corps but that's not something the influx of Slovak players would help with, with the exception of Sekera.

I'm not saying the team wouldn't be somewhat better (at least on paper) but some non-Slovak and non-Czech posters almost make it look like we're one Hossa, one Gáborík and one Sekera from being a Top3 nation and beating Sweden and Canada regularly. It's this idea of some "superpower that could (have) be(en)" that leads people to make these threads over and over again, and it's totally false imo.
 
Hossa would help. Tatár is a nice player but not a game-breaker, he would likely replace a player that is equally good as him. Gáborík had a good playoff last year but I don't think he's better than Vrbata, for instance. We've got plenty of very good offensive players.

Sekera would help again. Chára has been useless on big ice for quite some time and ViÅ¡ňovský has retired from international hockey. Halák is an upgrade over Pavelec, though I believe that Mrázek will be better than both in a short time.

And as I mentioned in one of the past threads on this topic, I think the team would actually be weaker than the current Czech team because of the amount of ressentment and victimization on the Slovak side, and the arrogance and patronizing on the Czech side. For a glimpse of it, just read what Faterson is posting in this thread. It was always like that before 1993 and now with social networks and the trigger-happy media in both countries... :help:

Tatar should definetely be there. I remember first slovkian line in Sochi. This would be actaully first line of this team. There was similar thread about union tourney where I suggest czechoslovak roster.I just can not find it...
 
I think the team would actually be weaker than the current Czech team because of the amount of ressentment and victimization on the Slovak side, and the arrogance and patronizing on the Czech side. For a glimpse of it, just read what Faterson is posting in this thread. It was always like that before 1993 and now with social networks and the trigger-happy media in both countries... :help:

Exactly. That's really the answer to this thread.
 

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