CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[Boris Zubov]

Regarding Mullet, the NFL did just fine with the Chargers playing in a high school stadium. Good things come to those who wait.

I'm sure you're aware this is an awful comparison & completely disingenuous. The NFL could afford to go a decade without fans in every stadium. Last time I checked, the NHL & especially the Yotes, don't have that luxury.

 

[TheLegend]

I'm sure you're aware this is an awful comparison & completely disingenuous. The NFL could afford to go a decade without fans in every stadium. Last time I checked, the NHL & especially the Yotes, don't have that luxury.

Islanders playing at Barclays would be the closest I could think of.

Had the Coyotes been able to go back to Footprint the situation wouldn’t have been any better for them either under the circumstances.

 

[GindyDraws]

During the Cupcake Summit, Goldwater Institute brought up the possibility of a minor league team at Glendale Arena and the mayor said they had 5 minor league teams over the years that all failed. Obviously the two that existed at the same time as the Coyotes wouldn't have a chance but there is no evidence to indicate the market will support a team.

Hmm... I can count four minor league teams, all named Roadrunners, and the WHA Roadrunners. Granted, the ECHL Roadrunners played at the same time as the Coyotes, and that did not help.

And Tucson has the Roadrunners name at the moment.

The point being that if anyone is silly enough to try again they can't use Roadrunners again. That, and if people are currently disillusioned by the Coyotes, they certainly won't give an ECHL team a crack.

 

[Stumbledore]

C’mon….. you’re trying to stack the odds against the house here.

A lot of players like Arizona, period. Many of them retire here after having been here to play games and see what it offers.

Nonsense. I didn't stack anything at all. I was responding to this:

" I am willing to bet if you asked a player, they'd prefer to play in Phoenix than a lot of the norther states."

My rejoinder is that I can easily find a player or ten that prefers to live in northern states or Canada.

Of course lots of players like Arizona. Lots of them retired there. Agreed. Even I bought a house in Arizona and considered retiring there until America lost its way in 2016. Now I'm stuck with a white elephant worth $1.8 that even the kids won't take for free. (Even the one lass and her husband who live in Vancouver and are eager to move to Seattle, so it's not an American revulsion thing.) Ironically, when the Coyotes do finally build their area after I'm dead it'll end up being close to my house.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Nonsense. I didn't stack anything at all. I was responding to this:

" I am willing to bet if you asked a player, they'd prefer to play in Phoenix than a lot of the norther states."

My rejoinder is that I can easily find a player or ten that prefers to live in northern states or Canada.

Of course lots of players like Arizona. Lots of them retired there. Agreed. Even I bought a house in Arizona and considered retiring there until America lost its way in 2016. Now I'm stuck with a white elephant worth $1.8 that even the kids won't take for free. (Even the one lass and her husband who live in Vancouver and are eager to move to Seattle, so it's not an American revulsion thing.) Ironically, when the Coyotes do finally build their area after I'm dead it'll end up close to my house.

America lost its way long before 2016.

 

[Stumbledore]

America lost its way long before 2016.

I respectfully disagree. Admittedly, America's best years were before the turn of the century, but we had a vacation home in Key Largo right through until 2009 and the people there were the nicest and most optimistic you could hope to be around. When Florida went bad, we shifted our winters to Arizona -- talk about from the frying pan to the fire -- and abandoned winters in America completely by 2016.

Now of course I've got so many health problems that settling in America for even a few months each year could potentially bankrupt me. But this is getting into political viewpoints which can only ruin a hockey arguments board so ..... anybody wanna buy a house?

 

[Boris Zubov]

I respectfully disagree. Admittedly, America's best years were before the turn of the century, but we had a vacation home in Key Largo right through until 2009 and the people there were the nicest and most optimistic you could hope to be around. When Florida went bad, we shifted our winters to Arizona -- talk about from the frying pan to the fire -- and abandoned winters in America completely by 2016.

Now of course I've got so many health problems that settling in America for even a few months each year could potentially bankrupt me. But this is getting into political viewpoints which can only ruin a hockey arguments board so ..... anybody wanna buy a house?

I opened a can of worms that honestly I'm not interested in debating...but even if I wanted to, this is not the proper place to do so.

Side note, I don't think you were looking for sympathy, but not too many people reading this are going to be feel bad that you have a house worth $1.8M that, worst case scenario, you can sell at a giant profit. Real first world problems.

 

[Stumbledore]

I opened a can of worms that honestly I'm not interested in debating...but even if I wanted to, this is not the proper place to do so.

Side note, I don't think you were looking for sympathy, but not too many people reading this are going to be feel bad that you have a house worth $1.8M that, worst case scenario, you can sell at a giant profit. Real first world problems.

I wasn't looking for your sympathy but thank you for your drive-by sneering.

And have a Merry Christmas!

 

[Boris Zubov]

I wasn't looking for your sympathy but thank you for your drive-by sneering.

And have a Merry Christmas!

Re-read your initial post & you might see how it comes across a certain way. That fact that your being defensive is pretty telling.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

There’s no guarantee throwing money at a campaign would get you what you want. He spent $1.5 million in all. That’s a pretty hefty sum for a referendum in a city of 320K. The opposition had a side interest come in a dump all sorts of cash to facilitate things and if you were to ask them they were pining about how much more Meruelo spent than they did.

Problem anyway wasn’t the money it was the message. They oversold TED as something only high income people would be interested in to a core citizenship that’s been there for decades and is growing weary of all the vertical growth they’re seeing around them. Right now I don’t think any large scale project is going to be able to go in Tempe because of how that vote turned out.


Genuine answer: It shows the potential that if Meruelo can get something done in a location that will serve to grow the current fan base into something bigger then he should be able to turn things around.

That wasn’t going to happen in Glendale for a multitude of reasons, and being a tenant again downtown wasn’t either. The only drawback is being will a third arena in the Phoenix metro draw enough events outside of hockey to make it worth while.

Are you seriously suggesting that Meruelo didn't bungle a crucial vote? By the way, do you have links for the number he spent and how much the opposition spent?

At any rate, I'm fully in the 'Hockey can work anywhere but the Coyotes brand can't' camp. Everytime you hear fans talking about them half the people in the area didn't even realize there were still there. Mix that with their history of bad/untrustworthy partnerships and I think you're clearly looking at a dead brand.

 

[Shwan]

Are you seriously suggesting that Meruelo didn't bungle a crucial vote? By the way, do you have links for the number he spent and how much the opposition spent?

You can find the easy finance portal here to see the filings.

Meruelo's Tempe Wins PAC post election filing has the election cycle disbursement at $1,115,116.77 + $105,479 for the post election period, then another $135,260.33 for their final Q3 reporting before dissolving.

Dawn Penich-Thacker's Tempe 1st, which files under their parent Democracy for Tempe PAC, has their election cycle disbursement at $17,492.61 + $22,021.60 for the post election period, plus $5,040.18 for Q3.

Then there's the Socialists over at Worker Power, which used to be the Central Arizonans for a Sustainable Economy (CASE) before the comrades took their act coast to coast. That one is a little more tough as they weren't a PAC and just have a bunch of expenditure filings (I may or may not be on one of them )

But basically Worker Power's initial filings showed they got $250,000 from Arizona powerhouse Union UA 469 on 4/13/2023 and they promptly used all that up, leading to speculation that they were getting more money elsewhere as the vote was nearing. Worker Power's last filing in June confirmed this as Worker Power put up about $230,000 of their own cash on 2/10/2023, but that was split between opposing 301/302/303 and supporting another initiative.

So about $1.3M on Meruelo's side to $500-600k on the opposition per the official Tempe filings.

"Side Interest"

 

[Coyotedroppings]

you can only watch the team by buying an antenna (!).

They are being and have been aired on satellite and cable for some time now.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Nonsense. I didn't stack anything at all. I was responding to this:

" I am willing to bet if you asked a player, they'd prefer to play in Phoenix than a lot of the norther states."

My rejoinder is that I can easily find a player or ten that prefers to live in northern states or Canada.

Of course lots of players like Arizona. Lots of them retired there. Agreed. Even I bought a house in Arizona and considered retiring there until America lost its way in 2016. Now I'm stuck with a white elephant worth $1.8 that even the kids won't take for free. (Even the one lass and her husband who live in Vancouver and are eager to move to Seattle, so it's not an American revulsion thing.) Ironically, when the Coyotes do finally build their area after I'm dead it'll end up being close to my house.

There are way too many NTC's saying otherwise for this to be accurate. None of the big name free agents ever come to Canada unless it's Toronto, but that's a story for another day.

 

[Reaser]

None of the big name free agents ever come to Canada unless it's Toronto, but that's a story for another day.

Weren't name-players like Kadri, Giroux, Tarasenko near the top of the list for UFA's from the previous two FA classes?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Weren't name-players like Kadri, Giroux, Tarasenko near the top of the list for UFA's from the previous two FA classes?

Kadri took too long to decide and got locked out
Tarasenko wanted to return to NY and had injury issues
Giroux is old!

Not sure any of those guys are top tier anymore.

 

[MNNumbers]

Concerning FAs, I would guess that the longer winters and the tax implications of living in Canada affect for more players than any other issues.

It's possible that the language situation in Montreal affects that market to a small extent as well.

And, there is also the idea of personal marketing. Toronto is a huge market, as well as NY and LA are, so those places are going to be attractive for the sake of out-of-hockey possibilities.

 

[Fatass]

Concerning FAs, I would guess that the longer winters and the tax implications of living in Canada affect for more players than any other issues.

It's possible that the language situation in Montreal affects that market to a small extent as well.

And, there is also the idea of personal marketing. Toronto is a huge market, as well as NY and LA are, so those places are going to be attractive for the sake of out-of-hockey possibilities.

These are parts of the equation but the biggest reason for playing in the US for many guys is the anonymity that comes with it. Away from the rink they are not recognized. They are just one of the crowd. Up here players are always recognized. They are always at work.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Concerning FAs, I would guess that the longer winters and the tax implications of living in Canada affect for more players than any other issues.

It's possible that the language situation in Montreal affects that market to a small extent as well.

And, there is also the idea of personal marketing. Toronto is a huge market, as well as NY and LA are, so those places are going to be attractive for the sake of out-of-hockey possibilities.

I'd argue that Montreal has been an above-average team on the FA market, largely due to being unable to develop talent.

Off the top of my head, they've pulled Hamrlik, Cammalleri, Gionta, Cole, Radulov and Toffoli off the market. That's a bunch of 1st liners and a top-pairing defenseman. I highly doubt teams like Arizona, San Jose, Anaheim, Tampa etc. Etc. have that pulled that much quantity/quality.

The truth of the matter is Tavares-level free agents don't hit the market often period so most teams have never gotten one. Unless you're like Winnipeg, this stuff doesn't seem to matter as much. Teams like Vancouver and Edmonton have pulled big ticket FAs as well.

 

[aqib]

Which is exactly what Muerello is trying to do......

Yeah like the little engine that could. The Panthers were able to get their lease redone with Broward County within months. It's not like the Panthers arena (whatever it's called now) is in a great location. He's owned the team for how many years now and hasn't been able to get a deal done.
Also if the Panthers fall back to earth they will be back in the same situation.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Concerning FAs, I would guess that the longer winters and the tax implications of living in Canada affect for more players than any other issues.

It's possible that the language situation in Montreal affects that market to a small extent as well.

And, there is also the idea of personal marketing. Toronto is a huge market, as well as NY and LA are, so those places are going to be attractive for the sake of out-of-hockey possibilities.

Personally, I've been to Montreal and don't speak a lick of French, and have never once had a problem. It's not like they are playing in Chicoutimi or something.

On the other hand, I used to live in Miami and some of the best parts of the city are hard to enjoy without a command of Spanish.

 

[Ciao]

Nonsense. I didn't stack anything at all. I was responding to this:

" I am willing to bet if you asked a player, they'd prefer to play in Phoenix than a lot of the norther states."

My rejoinder is that I can easily find a player or ten that prefers to live in northern states or Canada.

Of course lots of players like Arizona. Lots of them retired there. Agreed. Even I bought a house in Arizona and considered retiring there until America lost its way in 2016. Now I'm stuck with a white elephant worth $1.8 that even the kids won't take for free. (Even the one lass and her husband who live in Vancouver and are eager to move to Seattle, so it's not an American revulsion thing.) Ironically, when the Coyotes do finally build their area after I'm dead it'll end up being close to my house.

If you're stuck, I would take it off your hands for free

 

[LPHabsFan]

Personally, I've been to Montreal and don't speak a lick of French, and have never once had a problem. It's not like they are playing in Chicoutimi or something.

On the other hand, I used to live in Miami and some of the best parts of the city are hard to enjoy without a command of Spanish.

Montreal is not Quebec.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Montreal is not Quebec.

I know, but I was responding to a comment about Montreal. Maybe I missed his point, I don't know.

 

[Shwan]

Coyotes TV viewership down 500% in one month

November 11:

December 18th:

Obviously this is tongue-in-cheek, but it clearly they don't want to post the hard numbers like they do for the Golden Knights for obvious reasons.

 

[Ciao]

There are way too many NTC's saying otherwise for this to be accurate. None of the big name free agents ever come to Canada unless it's Toronto, but that's a story for another day.

Where can I see these NTCs?

I'd like to check that out.

It's funny that sometimes the teams don't even know about the NTC, as with Dadonov and Vegas!