CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

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JimAnchower

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There’s no way that if he’d been taken to another hospital that he would’ve ended up being seen any sooner than he was while staying put. At least, not in my experience with hospitals.
This is right. As soon as the CT Scan revealed no serious damage, it was always going to take a while to get stitches. This is because hospitals don't work on a first come, first serve basis but rather a system where the most life threatening cases are handled first, even if they come in after you. Depending on the time, it could have also been during a shift change, which can cause delays as well.
 

Shwan

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This is right. As soon as the CT Scan revealed no serious damage, it was always going to take a while to get stitches. This is because hospitals don't work on a first come, first serve basis but rather a system where the most life threatening cases are handled first, even if they come in after you. Depending on the time, it could have also been during a shift change, which can cause delays as well.

Or, you know, you move your million dollar employee to a facility that will immediately admit you instead of slumming it with uninsured gunshot victims for another three hours.

Like most professional, funded organizations would do.

There's 3 other private level 1 trauma centers in Dallas that would have immediately taken Valimaki.
 

JimAnchower

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Or, you know, you move your million dollar employee to a facility that will immediately admit you instead of slumming it with uninsured gunshot victims for another three hours.

Like most professional, funded organizations would do.

There's 3 other private level 1 trauma centers in Dallas that would have immediately taken Valimaki.
How do you that their ERs weren't full of higher risk patients too?
 

Shwan

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How do you that their ERs weren't full of higher risk patients too?

Like, you know the difference between a private and public hospital right? If you're Canadian I would understand the confusion.


and anyways per your OWN post he didn't need the ER at that point. All he needed was a bed, stitches and wait for a surgeon for his operation right?

As soon as the CT Scan revealed no serious damage, it was always going to take a while to get stitches.

Stitches only take awhile at county hospitals.
 
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LPHabsFan

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Or, you know, you move your million dollar employee to a facility that will immediately admit you instead of slumming it with uninsured gunshot victims for another three hours.

Like most professional, funded organizations would do.

There's 3 other private level 1 trauma centers in Dallas that would have immediately taken Valimaki.
This was actually one of my first thoughts. I was very surprised that the Stars didn't have an agreement with a local private hospital to have priority access for people injured during one of their games.
 

KevFu

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Attendance faded when they were downtown after the novelty wore off even though they were a playoff team. It was below 15K after the first full season in Glendale even before bankruptcy.

The other thing is each year half the teams in the league will not make the playoffs. So if you need to make the playoffs all the time to be viable that's not a good market.

Attendance faded downtown when "the novelty wore off" because people were buying obstructed view seats that couldn't see one of the goals when the novelty was ON and once you've done that a few times, why are you buying a seat that requires a monitor to see what's below you?


No one said they need to make the playoffs to be "viable," they need to make the playoffs to create new fans. That's how bandwagons work.

I find everyone's definition of "Viable" incredibly stupid since it's been 15 years or so, and they're still here; and attendance matters so little that MLB sold zero tickets in 2020 and everyone remained the exact same level of viability as before.

Being a member of the league essentially makes you viable.
 

TheGreenTBer

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Well doing a Google translate, in Spanish it would read 'Liga Nacional de Hockey'.

The marketing to the Hispanic community is in full force.....or they're moving to Mexico City next year...YMMV :laugh:
Yup. Spanish and French have mostly the same word order, which differs from English. Adjectives come after the nouns in Spanish.
 
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Stumbledore

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I find everyone's definition of "Viable" incredibly stupid since it's been 15 years or so, and they're still here; and attendance matters so little that MLB sold zero tickets in 2020 and everyone remained the exact same level of viability as before.

Being a member of the league essentially makes you viable.
By your definition, every team that has failed in the NHL was viable up until the day they ceased to be part of the League. Interesting.

Curiously, the Kansas City Scouts, the Cleveland Barons, and the Atlanta Flames were reported to be "viably" selling tickets after they'd been terminated by the League.
 

LPHabsFan

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Attendance faded downtown when "the novelty wore off" because people were buying obstructed view seats that couldn't see one of the goals when the novelty was ON and once you've done that a few times, why are you buying a seat that requires a monitor to see what's below you?

No one said they need to make the playoffs to be "viable," they need to make the playoffs to create new fans. That's how bandwagons work.

I find everyone's definition of "Viable" incredibly stupid since it's been 15 years or so, and they're still here; and attendance matters so little that MLB sold zero tickets in 2020 and everyone remained the exact same level of viability as before.

Being a member of the league essentially makes you viable.
Take your pick on which road we take. We can take the road where we talk about how ridiculous it is for a team to have several hundred million dollars in debt, no arena, had horrible attendance WITH minor league level pricing (prior to Mullet arena where they have horrible attendance WITHOUT minor league level pricing), a history of ownership issues, a current owner that has question marks, receives max revenue sharing, horrible tv numbers, and is losing 10's of millions of dollars a year, yet somehow that's considered viable to you.

We can also go down the road how the reason you can talk about the MLB like that is because of how their tv contracts and luxury tax system works and makes it so that you can have teams in that league who's entire payroll is covered by just the revenue sharing. We also know that some of the owners are pissed at teams like that and would want to put in a salary cap floor.

Maybe there are other roads that I'm missing.

Either way, I would say that your understanding of market viability is.....lacking.
 

aqib

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Attendance faded downtown when "the novelty wore off" because people were buying obstructed view seats that couldn't see one of the goals when the novelty was ON and once you've done that a few times, why are you buying a seat that requires a monitor to see what's below you?


No one said they need to make the playoffs to be "viable," they need to make the playoffs to create new fans. That's how bandwagons work.

I find everyone's definition of "Viable" incredibly stupid since it's been 15 years or so, and they're still here; and attendance matters so little that MLB sold zero tickets in 2020 and everyone remained the exact same level of viability as before.

Being a member of the league essentially makes you viable.

Yeah MLB had zero attendence in 2020. From what I recall I think there was something going on in 2020 that prevented large gatherings of people. But my memory maybe hazy.

There really is no reason to beleive this market will support an NHL team other than the fact that there are a lot of people in the Phoenix area.

At the very least you would see strong TV ratings if there was interest. I remember some state rep or state senator doing a TV interview a couple of years ago and he was asked about the Coyotes and he literally said "I thought they already left"
 

Coyotedroppings

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Basically, no one is taking the "taste test" on the Coyotes, because all the headlines are bad. When the headlines AFTER a new arena are just about the team being good, people will take the taste test on hockey, and a lot will like it.
Headlines? :laugh: What headlines?
 

Coyotedroppings

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Attendance faded when they were downtown after the novelty wore off even though they were a playoff team. It was below 15K after the first full season in Glendale even before bankruptcy.
Rarely will you ever hear me defend the "fans" of the valley, but had the lock out not happened and the subsequent loss of promised all star game ( I know, silly, but not so much for the casual fan), not to mention the following economic collapse, forcing the sell off of the Westgate ED, things would more likely than not, look differently today.
 

Coyotedroppings

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That's gross misconduct by the team.
I don't believe teams travel with their medical staff, for numerous reasons, ability to practice in different states just being one. I do think they should have had a team advocate available to him, but then again, he may be a pro athlete, but still no different than the common man... one pant leg at a time stuff. So does he really deserve preferential treatment, particularly when the hospital (apparently) had no surgeon to work on him?
IDK, but sounds like a hospital issue, that so many face on a daily basis.

Edit; I see now that the team (Yotes) did have an advocate in place.

Read the article a little more….



More like NHL’s protocols had a hole in them.

Valimaki also stated he was fine with the how the team handled him.
To hell with protocol, if true, the Stars lacked common decency.
 
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Coyotedroppings

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What the part where the coyotes did everything except move him to another hospital to actually get care in a timely manner? The thing that would have required real money?



If the team knew the protocol was crap nothing was stopping Meruelo him from paying the cash to get him care.
Ah, I see where you are coming from and would not put it past the asshats to tell the advocate to just get him a room at the motel 6! :laugh:
 

Coyotedroppings

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In the end, it appears that Valimaki was fortunate he had a family member there, as is so often the case for us mere mortals.
 

aqib

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Rarely will you ever hear me defend the "fans" of the valley, but had the lock out not happened and the subsequent loss of promised all star game ( I know, silly, but not so much for the casual fan), not to mention the following economic collapse, forcing the sell off of the Westgate ED, things would more likely than not, look differently today.
I mean the economic collapse was 2008/09. I get the trauma of the bankruptcy but even that was resolved in 2012. I also understand that Glendale wasn't ideal because the fan base was on the other side of the valley. After over a decade in Glendale shouldn't they have been able to build a fan base on that side of town? Shouldn't the fans on the other side who somehow couldn't make the trek from Scottsdale at least been watching on TV?
 
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Coyotedroppings

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I mean the economic collapse was 2008/09. I get the trauma of the bankruptcy but even that was resolved in 2012. I also understand that Glendale wasn't ideal because the fan base was on the other side of the valley. After over a decade in Glendale shouldn't they have been able to build a fan base on that side of town? Shouldn't the fans on the other side who somehow couldn't make the trek from Scottsdale at least been watching on TV?
Depends on your definition of resolved, I guess. Like I said, you won’t find medefending valley “fans,” just pointing out that things would be further along.... It takes quite some time here, I've seen it with the Suns.
Also, neglected to mention that the team that would have been iced during the lockout should have been a good one, further generating interest.
 
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Yukon Joe

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I mean the economic collapse was 2008/09. I get the trauma of the bankruptcy but even that was resolved in 2012. I also understand that Glendale wasn't ideal because the fan base was on the other side of the valley. After over a decade in Glendale shouldn't they have been able to build a fan base on that side of town? Shouldn't the fans on the other side who somehow couldn't make the trek from Scottsdale at least been watching on TV?

I don't think anything was "resolved in 2012". There's a reason we're at 147 megathreads.

The team was only finally sold to Ice Arizona in 2013, but that group was hardly stable, Glendale cancelled the lease in 2015, they started in on the proposed move to Tempe, team is sold again to Barroway, and then again to Meruelo, Tempe fell through...

I don't think there's anything inherent to the greater Phoenix area that makes people allergic to hockey. The better question though is after the disasters of the last 15 years has the team name and brand become so toxic in Phoenix that it will never thrive...
 

aqib

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I don't think anything was "resolved in 2012". There's a reason we're at 147 megathreads.

The team was only finally sold to Ice Arizona in 2013, but that group was hardly stable, Glendale cancelled the lease in 2015, they started in on the proposed move to Tempe, team is sold again to Barroway, and then again to Meruelo, Tempe fell through...

I don't think there's anything inherent to the greater Phoenix area that makes people allergic to hockey. The better question though is after the disasters of the last 15 years has the team name and brand become so toxic in Phoenix that it will never thrive...
During the Cupcake Summit, Goldwater Institute brought up the possibility of a minor league team at Glendale Arena and the mayor said they had 5 minor league teams over the years that all failed. Obviously the two that existed at the same time as the Coyotes wouldn't have a chance but there is no evidence to indicate the market will support a team.
 
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Fatass

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During the Cupcake Summit, Goldwater Institute brought up the possibility of a minor league team at Glendale Arena and the mayor said they had 5 minor league teams over the years that all failed. Obviously the two that existed at the same time as the Coyotes wouldn't have a chance but there is no evidence to indicate the market will support a team.
Has the market (whole region) showed they can support an NHL team?
 
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